inexpensive band saw?

I don't mean to hi-jack this thread....BUT...

Gahagan said:
I am looking for an inexpensive bandsaw. My portaband doesn't want to do the job and doesn't have a large enough opening for some of the larger blades. Will the harbor freight one work? It is on sale and I have a 20% discount coupon.
http://www.harborfreight.com/horizontal-vertical-metal-cutting-bandsaw-93762.html
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Hey Dawgs,
I thought I would present this idea to you guys, I'm not sure how many of you may have thought of this, or if anyone has even tried it or if it's at all possible, so I ask those that obviously know more than I do.

To my knowledge, the difference between a metal cutting band saw and a wood cutting bandsaw is the speed that it cuts....and the price! My 14 inch Craftsman wood cutting band saw cost me about 350.00 on sale. Craftsman also sales a bandsaw that will cut wood and steel, the difference between that one and mine, that I know of, is the one that will cut wood and metal has the ability to slow the blade way down to about 80 fps, here is my question.

Why couldn't we take a (used or otherwise) bandsaw and replace the motor with one that will go the right speed for cutting steel? I'm assuming there is a specific amount of torque needed for steel cutting, and there might be some structural considerations, most likely in the roller guides, but the wood band saw has more features and is a lot more cost effective. If the right motor can be purchased reasonably this could be the best route to take for a metal cutting band saw that is also designed to be used vertical, we all know how much a vertical bandsaw costs, why they are so expensive is one of the reasons I ask this question, I'm thinking there is something I don't know. Does anyone has any kind of info that would make this a possibility or knowledge that would blow this entire idea out of the water? If it's possible, I will start the search for a bandsaw that will be a good candidate for the conversion. Thanks, Rex
 
McClellan Made Blades said:
Hey Dawgs,
I thought I would present this idea to you guys, I'm not sure how many of you may have thought of this, or if anyone has even tried it or if it's at all possible, so I ask those that obviously know more than I do.

To my knowledge, the difference between a metal cutting band saw and a wood cutting bandsaw is the speed that it cuts....and the price! My 14 inch Craftsman wood cutting band saw cost me about 350.00 on sale. Craftsman also sales a bandsaw that will cut wood and steel, the difference between that one and mine, that I know of, is the one that will cut wood and metal has the ability to slow the blade way down to about 80 fps, here is my question.

Why couldn't we take a (used or otherwise) bandsaw and replace the motor with one that will go the right speed for cutting steel? I'm assuming there is a specific amount of torque needed for steel cutting, and there might be some structural considerations, most likely in the roller guides, but the wood band saw has more features and is a lot more cost effective. If the right motor can be purchased reasonably this could be the best route to take for a metal cutting band saw that is also designed to be used vertical, we all know how much a vertical bandsaw costs, why they are so expensive is one of the reasons I ask this question, I'm thinking there is something I don't know. Does anyone has any kind of info that would make this a possibility or knowledge that would blow this entire idea out of the water? If it's possible, I will start the search for a bandsaw that will be a good candidate for the conversion. Thanks, Rex
Click to expand...

Several people have attempted what you mention; some successfully, with most unsuccessful. The devil is always in the details.

Power of the motor is not a huge problem. Cutting steel does not necessarily require huge amounts of power.
The "cutting" of metal is actually a scraping action. This is why a metal-cutting blade performs best when it is "broken-in"- we are slightly dulling the teeth so that they scrape rather than dig in and cut. Think of it like a file on steroids.:biggrin:
Power depends upon "how much material how fast".
The HF saw designs (4x6) use motors from 1/2 to one HP. Some of the 7x12 models use 3/4 HP motors.

Slowing it down can be done with multiple pulley reduction, gearbox, or VFD unit.

Cutting metal requires increased feed pressure. Accommodating that increased pressure while resisting blade deflection involves more than design of the guide assembly (rollers)- it involves increasing inherent beam strength. Meaning that we use wide blades under high tension. Even if using more narrow blades for tight curves, the tension needs to be higher than a typical wood-cutting application.
The overall design of the saw must be able to accommodate the increased tension. I have bent wheels, broken axles, and sprung frames simply because I applied more tension than what the manufacturer intended.
Robust wheel designs. Big, durable bearings. Thick, strong axles. And a strong frame that ties it all together while resisting deflection.
Those are the features I would consider if doing a conversion.
 
It's not the motor it's the gearing or pulleys. My brother has an old saw that someone converted for metal. It has a huge pulley at the top and a very small one on the motor. It works good.
 
When I used to use a vertical/horizontal saw for cutting out my blades I had a seat off of an old exercise machine that I clamp in the vise while it was in the vertical position and I could sit down put my feet up and ride it like a motorcycle. It was pretty comfy.
 
Cliff Fendley said:
When I used to use a vertical/horizontal saw for cutting out my blades I had a seat off of an old exercise machine that I clamp in the vise while it was in the vertical position and I could sit down put my feet up and ride it like a motorcycle. It was pretty comfy.
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"Harley Freight"???:biggrin:

Now that's cuttin' in style!
 
Ha! I did the same thing. I ordered a seat for a chopper and attached it to the saw and sit on it like a motorcycle it is really comfortable.
 
i opted to buy the HF drillpress with the keyless chuck using a 25% off coupon, then got the Skil 9" bandsaw from Lowe's... the stock blade sucks pretty bad, but I'm sure it will do my just fine once I get a good blade on there...

And OH WHAT I HAVE BEEN MISSING!!!! :D I never realized how great it was to have actual "tools for the job".
 
It makes life alot easier doesn't it? I am happy as can be I have been cutting out blades just to cut them out. I have now got 15 knives I have to grind. Good thing there is a KITH coming up.
 
Warning: Long.
In an earlier post I made, I mentioned the variable speed on my saw. I have less that $60.00 in the complete variable speed on my bandsaw including the industrial 90 volt DC motor. For me, after the quality of the saw blade, matching the speed to the metal thickness is the most important thing to do for extending blade life. Just like slowing a drill press down as the bit size goes up. I'm to lazy to mess with pulleys for every speed change. Variable speed capability costs more than a single speed, but not near as much as most think. For the record, I'm talking about DC, not 3 phase. I have no experience with 3 phase. Every machine in my shop is 90 volt DC with the exception of the 6x42x9 belt/disk grinder. The main advantage to DC is that as you vary the voltage, you vary the speed, and if you reverse the wires, you reverse the direction, or install a DPDT (Double Pole Double Throw) switch, and just flip the switch. With the factory bulit controlers, you can also adjust the torque curve to have high torque at low speed (high amps, low volts). Most of my controllers I made because they are cheap, but not as efficent as a Mosfet unit from the factory. DC motors are also not limited to a single voltage. A 90 volt DC motor will run on a 12 volt car battery, just at about a tenth the speed and power. A 48 volt motor will run on 90 volts, but at twice the speed, but that's pushing the motor to far. I ran a test on one 48 volt motor that ran at 4500 rpm with 48 volts. At 90 volts, my tach limits out at 10,000rpm and it maxed it out, witch is to much for the motor. It can explode. That didn't make the 48 volt useless. I just limit voltage I put into into it. If I have a 3/4 motor turning 4500 rpm, I can put a pulley on the motor half the size of the driven pulley, cut the rpm in half, and double the power so it will produce the work of a 1&1/2 hp motor. Pro built controllers for a 1 hp motor are less than $100.00. The controllers I have made cost much less and work, but not as flexable. The motor on my bandsaw is a 1/3hp 3500 rpm 90 volt DC motor. I have it reduced 3 to 1 with pulleys and then the reduction of the gear box. I can vary the speed to cut 2" mild steel up to fast enough for handle scales without any belt changes, but I'm not cutting 2" for a living. It is slow, but space and funds are both a premium, and 1 saw is the only option right now. DC motors are pretty overlooked to a large degree, and can be found at very good prices at times. Treadmill motors are all DC and will work even with the controller from the treadmill, but they are built light weight and lack the "guts" for most tools. Another source for good DC motors is electric lawnmowers. They already have the rectifier in them, just hook them up to a variac and use pulleys to get he speed down to useable. These are 2&1/2 to 3 hp motors. Electric lawnmowers are all over yardsales for less that $20.00. This is also the place to mention they are not enclosed motors, so give it due cinsideration. My shop is anything but clean, and still doesn't come close to the dust that a lawnmower generates and that those motors operate in. As I could, I have upgraded to enclosed motors because they are better suited for my needs. You can also vary the speed of AC brushed motors, like a drill. A 3hp skillsaw can have the speed varied with a light dimmer, but the dimmer must have the ability to carry the amps that the saw will pull. Don't try to run a skillsaw motor on a 6 amp dimmer from Lowe's. The down side of AC brushed motors is how loud they are. The noise makes them not an option for me except for my forge blower. I use a 12 amp AC vacuum sweeper motor on my forge, but at the speed required to obtain enough air flow, the motor is very quite. It runs at 20-30% of normal full speed. I have to also throw out that I'm not recommending anyone do any of this, it's what I have done and works for a fraction of the cost of ready to run stuff that is out of reach for most. I apologize for the long post, but there are many more options to accomplish acceptable results than just deep pockets that alot of us, especially starting out, don't have.
dennie
 
Great post dennie... Some really good information, but a paragraph break every now and then would be super! ;)

Now you've got me looking on Craigslist for electric mowers... hahaa
 
Great post, thanks Dennie. Quick question - would you be able to use a DC motor with something like the EERF grinder-in-a-box?
 
One thing you may want to do is add a table to your saw. I made one of 3/16"x10"x10" ss with a slot cut for the blade and counter sink holes for the screws off the small table.This will give you room to move the blade around.
 
tedinnatl,
Keep in mind that with any grinder and most tools, the basic idea is to make something go around. Any way you accomplish it willl work. The DC motors will do anything any other motor will do while allowing you to vary the speed because of the permenant magnets, but they require different power, DC, which is easy to get from AC. After you get by that, everything else is pretty much the same. If you put a half horse AC motor on your grinder, you'll be very unhappy with the lack of power. The same is true with DC motors. You still have to use a motor big enough to do the job, but you can vary the speed and change the direction.

BRad704,
Sorry, your absolutely right with the paragraphs. I was so worried about how long it was and trying to cover the information, it never crossed my mind.

Also look for cheap electric treadmills. They're DC motors and have the rectifier and variable speed already on them. Most aren't heavy duty enough to run a grinder successfully, but do work well for variable speed sanders, buffers, drill press motors, lathes, and so on. If you come across one of the big treadmills from a professional workout center, it's a different matter. Those are industrial motors that will run a grinder.

I recently took an electric mower apart and took some pictures. I will see if I can figure out how to post them.

dennie
 
good luck gahangan. i used a saw like that for 25 years not a problem . watch your tooth count , keep a sharp blade on, and run it slow and it will work for a long time. have fun and be careful.
good luck Gary Miller
 
Dennie
You get in pinch, Most hardware stores have Olson Hard Back 64-1/2in. long x 1/2in. wide either in 18T or 14T. It is great blade for the price of $12.00. It is all I ever use. I always use cutting fluid and the slowest speed. I have to get a Bi blade from Tracy. But I have had such good luck with durability and availability with the Olson blades.
 
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I put a 24t "Metal Only" blade on mine and I do run it on the slowest speed, with oil, and this thing does NOT want to cut my 5160... I have cut this same material on Jim's saw with NO issues...

Do I need to back up to a 14t or 18t to cut 1/4" 5160?
 
Probably so, I would prefer a 14 TPI on that thickness. That's what I run on all my horizontal saws and it works good all around. I've been running a 14-18 TPI on my vertical saw for about the last year and it has done good sawing out blades and still will cut thin stuff without grabbing too terribly.
 
You always want at least 3 teeth in your material. I use 14 or 18 on just about everything. I lean toward the 14t on .200 plus 18t on ,150 Plus and 24 on .125.
I just go with 18t on everything. Hey Brad, I loved the design you sent. I been busy I am sorry I haven't got back to you.

try this formula 1/Teeth*3=Thickness
 
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