HT oven or forge?

DWatson

DWatson

Member
Ok folks help me get a grasp on things here. I am going to need a way to heat treat and am unsure of which way to go. I will be using the simple steels, high carbon, like 1075, 1080, maybe some 1095 or 5160, as these are, as I understand, fairly easy to work with and treat. ( Heat to non magnetic and quench)

I know that I can purchase a ready made oven or forge, but where would the fun be in that? lol.

I dont think I would have to worry much about critical heat temps and soak times with these steels, so a complicated oven, I think would be unecessary.

What I have in mind is building a propane forge, something like Wayne Coe shows, from a freon tank.

Just wondering what other peoples thoughts are on the subject, and if I was on the right track in my way of thinking?

Thanks for any advise.

Sorry, I posted this in the wrong place, it's also posted in the Heat treating thread.
 
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With the exception of 1095, I'd say you should be able to effectively heat treat the above steels with a forge. I would exclude 1095 only because its a little more finicky and benefits a bit more from a controlled and consistent temperature.

That it's to say that you guys don't successfully HT 1095 in a forge, but it's much easier to get consistent and more optimum results in a precisely controlled HT oven.
 
Sounds like you've already made your decision. Precision of a kiln is great, but traditional methods have real appeal. Best of luck whichever way you choose. By the way, "heat to non-magnetic and quech" is not a good heat treat.
 
To expand on heat to non-magnetic and quench. Steel becomes non-magnetic before it converts to austinite so you have to get it just a little hotter than that. All steels must be soaked at temperature. Some just for a minute or two to make sure that it's heated all the way through and the carbon goes into solution, which can be pretty quick with simple steels. More complex steels may take 15-20 minutes. Those steels would be better candidates for a digitally controled oven. Some steels should be preheated before being austinzed, some of those even preheated in stages. Those may require a heat treating oven and a gas forge. The important thing is to know your steel. Also don't become a steel snob. It might stoke the ego to make blades out of a steel that no one else seems to use but there is usually a reason that no one else uses it.

Doug
 
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I do all of my heat treating in a forge. The advantage of building a forge is that you get dual usage. If you have a HT oven it is pretty well dedicated to heat treating. If you can afford both and will be doing a lot of knives you might want to go that way but in the mean time, until the need is there, I would go with the forge.
 
Thanks guys for the opinions, I know that even with the simple steels, I still have some book learning, and some hands on experence, before I can expect good results with either machine, it will come in time.
I suppose I can see an advantage of having both an oven and a forge avaliable for doing different tasks. Guess that dictates my next 2 projects, lol.
Think I will start with the propane forge, as I was also thinking about trying a RR Spike knife sometime anyway. As I learn more about the process and about different materials, I will move toward the digital oven. As always, thanks for the input, it really does mean a lot, Darrell
 
From someone who used to not see the advantage of a pyrometer in a gas forge, they do help when it comes to heat treating.

If you want to try RR spike knives, fine. Just be aware that the the high carbon spikes make marginal blades at best. They are made from an alloy that promotes toughness and things that promote toughness almost always decreases hardness and wear resistance and are high carbon only in respect to low carbon spikes. In respect to other steels they barely rate medium carbon content. I would recommend a water or brine quench and a temper at 300 degrees just to releave stress. Personally, I can't see that point of making something that is basically a novelty when simple steels like 1075/1080 from Admiral Steel; 1070, 1080, 1084 from the New Jersey Steel Baron; or 1065, 1080 from Kelly Cupples (there's a link at www.elliscustomknifeworks.com) is inexpensive.

My advise is to start out simple. Use simple steels. Start with very basic blades-single edged, no ricasso, no bolsters, no guards. Quench in oil, preferably, or water or brine as required by the steel. Temper in the an oven. After you build confidence in basic knife forming and heat treating then you can expand your techniques, tools and styles. Also a little bit of book learning before you start out can never go wrong. My favorite for beginners is The Complete Bladesmith by Jim Hrisoulas. Wayne Goddard has put out a couple of books but I think the one I mentioned will serve you longer, Goddard's are just a little too basic but they do have their merits.

Doug
 
I agree with the novelty of the RR spike, and that is just what I would be making one for, not to use, just to sit on a shelf and be able to say i did it. I do have a lot to learn about knife making, and have read extensively on this board and others about the process. I have yet to acquire any books on the subject, but even through research and advice, I beleve the best teacher is good ole' hands on experence and trial and error. Don't get me wrong though, I DO consider the tips and passing of knowledge from folks on the boards very valuable, and I appreciate people taking time to pass that knowledge to those who ask for it.
I have made a few knives and leather sheaths, working primarily with old sawmill blades. Not something to be considered as high quality, but rather something to give to my son and grandsons. Which is why I started this thread saying that I would be working with the simple steels, something easy to work with.
Here are a couple that I have done, not perfect, but a start anyway.
As always, thanks for the info guys.....Darrell
 

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