First forging trials

SHOKR

SHOKR

Well-Known Member
hey all

been trying to learn forging for short while now, watched few videos, read few articles and books and here is the first result

these are not actual knives, they are made out of iron bars, not steel. i didn't even cut them from the original bar, thought wouldn't matter, or at least get pointers on the blade first

i was going for a drop point design when i came out with the three cheese-spreader-like-knives, 2 of them already had uneven tip when i started (but since i knew they were just for trial and i didnt think anything would come out i never bothered to cut the damaged tip)

the larger one was aimed for clip point, couldnt keep the edge near the handle flat, whenever i tried to fix it i ruined something else.

now bring on the (hopefully constructive) criticism

also included pictures of the 'anvil' i am using (alas it is soft, the smooth area close to me is actually due to hammering for about an hour or less)

i have extreme trouble forming the tip at the beginning, if anyone has any pointers that would be great

also ANY tips would be helpful of course :D

thanks

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i have few ;) questions

anybody knows where i can find the initial point shapes i need to make to achieve the desired end design of drop point, clip point, bowie, etc.?

i wanted to buy hammers, would i need as a start anything other than ball peen and straight/cross peen? would new hammers do or better buy old hammers? (i was under the impression new hammers wont handle bought at tool stores might not handle the challenges of forging)

which would be better(easier or more simple) to use as a start, old files or leaf springs?

been having terrible pain in my left elbow (the are i hold the work piece with) any idea why that might be or of a way to avoid that?

when tapering the blade, near the tip gets thinner, and closer to the handle is thicker, how do i fix it so they would all be the same? (during forging or grinding/filing)

thanks :)
 
That's it...Your hooked :D

Looks like you have a clip point, drop point and sinner and tanto already :3:
 
First of all, those knives are not as bad as you think that they are. You need to learn to make adjustments to the shape. Try heating just the part that you want to move. That way the steel that you don't want to move doesn't change shape. Like if you want to make a drop point you heat only the end of the blade, rest the edge of the blade on the face of the anvil, than tap the end down to where you want it. The clip actually doesn't look that bad. It should dress up nicely while grinding/filing. You did a real good job of establishing the bevels on it. You also did a good distal taper on those blades. (Yes what you are seeing is generally a good thing.) If you want to make a blade without distal taper you will need to learn to profile the blade without drawing out the point.

As far as hammers go, new or old really doesn't matter. I prefer a square or oblong faced hammer to round, though I have one that I use occasionally. Reface the hammers to grind out any sharp lines. Hammers from the hardware store are usually the worst for having these sharp lines of transition but even hammers from blacksmith supply stores usually need to have the edges rounded a little. As you learn how different face shapes move metal differently you might even reshape a head. I even reforged the head of a ball peen hammer to get it to the shape that I wanted. I recommend that you get some tongs too. I find that V jawed tongs hold work for knives best but, then again, you will find that different shapes do different jobs.

Stay away from mystery metal if you can. I don't know what the availability of steel is in Egypt is but if you can get a known steel with high carbon in it you will be ahead of the game. If you are restricted to salvaged steel, old springs are probably the best bet as they almost certainly will have enough carbon in them to make good blades. Just be prepared to find the occasional stress cracks in the steel that will ruin the blade. If you can get something like a leaf spring assembly then once you figure out the proper heat treatment for it you will have a lot of steel that you will know how to heat treat. It should all be the same steel. Files can be a problem. Good one's will make good knives but some of the cheaper ones are case hardened steel that doesn't have enough carbon in them to make a good knife.

I too have a little trouble with tendonitis in my elbow, aka tennis elbow, in my tong arm. You might want to see if they carry an elbow strap at a local clinic or pharmacy, again I don't know what is available in Egypt, it just a simple strap that can be tightened around the upper arm slightly just below the elbow. That does seem to give that tendon a little support. You can also apply ice to the area and rest it if it starts getting bad.

Doug
 
MANY thanks Doug, i read the reply yesterday and actually had to wait till morning to reply (more alert lol)

i will try the partial heating option, it actually makes lots of sense!! at the time being i go to a fer forge guy, and all i have to heat the metal is a flame (big, not direct) from butane cylinder, might be hard but will try. hopefully soon will have my own place and build my own gas forge :)

the guy had square faced hammer, but it was so heavy for me i got tired after few blows and could barely control where i land the blow, so thought i'd give this one a try.

about the steel (you were righton money about not knowing whats here lol), alas i have been searching for QUITE SOME TIME, but all i could find was bohler k110, which is the equivalent of D2 BUT it is 7-9 times the price of regular carbon steel. what is driving me crazy tho is the high carbon steel is not available in flat bars, only round because "flat has no demand here", or available in ones that are really thick!! so for now i try to learn and practice with leaf springs and files (which i think are 5160, not tested tho)
i also even thought of importing steel, but don't know someone who would give me a smaller supply, and local importers require minimum of few tons for an order :D


btw how practical is it to forge a knife out of a file instead of using stock removal? saw 2 vids on youtube, but the knife turned out bad, but i wasnt sure if that was the makers or there might be some issue with the file itself

lol well thank God the medical field in Egypt is better than the knife making one( God willing i will soon improve ;) ), i think i'll get that strap yes, and actually i was going to go for warming the elbow instead of cooling it, thanks for the tip

thanks a LOT Doug :)
 
when tapering the blade, near the tip gets thinner, and closer to the handle is thicker, how do i fix it so they would all be the same? (during forging or grinding/filing)
Click to expand...

This is exactly how you want the forged blade to be. That is called the "Distal Taper". You don't get the distal taper with stock removal blades. Some guys also taper the tang of the knife. This gives a very pleasing appearance overall to the knife. So you are doing it right. Big thing with forging is really controlling your hammer. With practice you will hit less with more precision and achieve more. There are some good videos out there to get a guy started in the right direction. Learning proper techniques from the start will keep you from doing things that will need to be fixed later. It will also cut that learning curve way down. That is why we use these forums. To get us on the right track quickly so we can make quality stuff from the start, or at least have all the right information to do so.

Good luck. It looks like you are doing a good job already.
 
Patrick said:
This is exactly how you want the forged blade to be. That is called the "Distal Taper".
Click to expand...

thanks Patrick,
i think i phrased my question wrong tho, my bad.
i was talking about the edge, i know the blade better be thinner near the point and thicker near the handle, but when tapering the knives, the edge itself was thinner at the tip and still thicker at handle, how do i make the entire edge same thickness?

thanks
 
Ok, another common problem. Actually, now that I think back, I had the opposite problem. The secret is to go back and equalize the thickness of the edge along it's length. Just watch things as you work and not over work places along the edge. Practice, practice, practice.

Doug
 
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