Damascus warping!

blancefitz

Well-Known Member
I recently purchased an Alabama Damascus drop or scrap piece that they had already cut 4 blanks out of. There was plenty of steel left for about 5 or 6 folders. I cut out 2 blades and springs today and heated to non magnetic and quenched straight down tip first in Canola oil. Both blades and both springs warped. I may have jumped the gun trying to work with this material. Is Damascus more prone to warp than other steel?
 
There are a lot of things that can make a blade warp but I don't think damascus is any more prone to it than mono steel. It's just a thing that can happen from uneven stresses that build up in the steel. You might try tempering them one time to relieve the stress and then clamp them to a piece of angle iron with C clamps to correct the warp and try tempering again. You might even have to shim the convex side of the curve with a washer or a penny to over correct the curve and then temper. Just keep at it until the blade or spring is straight like you want it.

Doug
 
Did the place you purchased the Damascus from have any heat treating tips listed? Did you normalize the steel first? Sometimes they know how to handle their steels better than anyone else. Might even give them a call.
 
I will do some checking with them on their heat treat procedure. But I like Calvin's plan. I'm going to make a folder for my wife and she can wear it like a bracelet. :les:
 
Do you have a surface grinder? If they are not warped too bad it can be ground out but you gotta know how to do it.
You can work with that stuff,it may take a little more finessing than your accustomed to,I've made folder blades from it before.
 
The main thing to remember about keeping things straight is to have all the contributing factors balanced evenly. I cannot count the number of times I have heard that the answer to a straight blade is to eliminate the “stresses” or to get the blade “stress-free”, but this is fundamentally incorrect. First, one can never totally eliminate “stress” and second one must have “stress” in the blade in order for it to be hard. That is how hardening works, with the quench we induce massive amounts of strain on the entire internal lattice of the steel. I use the word “stress” in quotes because there are some technical semantics involved in these terms that is not totally accurate but it is just easier for the most folks to understand if I go with the commonly used words, even if they are not technically accurate.

Anyhow, since it is not only impossible, or even undesirable, to eliminate all stress, the real trick is to make it balanced and even in the blade. When you have more strain energy down one side of the blade than the other it is going to warp. This is why the major contributing factors to distortion in a quench are things like how the vapor jacket collapses. If it is minimal and collapses evenly and quickly things work. But if it collapses in a patchy way, one side of the blade will get more exposure to the quenchant than the other and you will get distortion.

The same is true of how the inside of the steel is setup to go into the quench, any uneven strain effects will react to the heating and cooling… well … unevenly. Also heavy segregation of carbide or phases in the steel will also be a major culprit in uneven strain. Put both of these together and one can see that the single most important way to help with warping is very good normalizing practices, followed by careful annealing and stress relieving. Every time I hear a smith point out things in the forging that causes warping in the quench, I want to set them down and explain proper normalizing to them, because get the feeling nobody ever has.

Damascus should[U/] be no different than any other steel, however it can have some quirks if certain factors are not taken into consideration. The most common issue one could encounter is a mismatch of alloys in the mix, made as common as it is by folks not even being aware of the importance of properly matching steels according to heat treat needs. The majority of folks I have talked to started out making damascus with a prime consideration of pattern contrast only, with not really considering if the two steels/metals should be put together even if they do look pretty together. One of the best examples of this that I used in a demonstration at Ashokan years ago was 160 layers of 1095 and L6 in a twist pattern square bar that I passed around the group to let them see it was perfectly straight. I then normalized the bar once and passed it around to let them see the 1/4 rotation the bar distorted into because of the two radically different behaviors of those alloys in heat treating.

Another factor that has to be considered with damascus is the evenness of the pattern distribution. The best example I have for this is a pattern I like to use for fittings, it is a double (chevron) twist welded to a random so the face of the butt-cap or guard gives you the chevron but the side butting up to the handle has nice straight lines down the sides. This looks nice, but it is a nightmare to keep straight, every single time you heat a piece of that stock it warps due to the differential expansion of the two patterns. Another stellar example is a Saxon/Migration Period sword that has multiple twists alternating with straight bars that are offset from each other on either side of the blade. Anybody who has had the “pleasure” of heat treating one of those things knows that they will come out of the quench looking like an accordion.
 
But once you harden and temper it and it is still warped you must straighten it or throw it out. I don't throw things out that can be fixed.
 
I struggled with straightness and Alabama damascus. There must be something about the alloy mix, because it comes out wavy and doesn't want to straighten in the temper either. I had several blades that I straightened hot out of the quench. They were straight, then warped during the temper. Multiple temper cycles with shims couldn't get them straight either.

At the Guild show this year I was across the aisle from Brad Stallsmith, the Peters Heat Treat guy. In one of our conversations, I mentioned the trouble I was having with the AL damascus. He said he has trouble with it as well. That was an eye opener.... the professional heat treat guy has a hard time getting it right also. He offered me a tip/trick that has proven beneficial. The tempering range on AL damascus is about 400, IRRC. If you put the blade in a vise and heat it with a propane torch in the warped area, but not so hot that the colors turn, you can bend it back straight and it will stay that way. Because you don't go above tempering temperature, the HT isn't affected. FWIW, the rest of my AL damascus billet is going to end up as guards, bolsters, or other things, but not knife blades.
 
Thanks for the information Jason. I think I may do the same with the billet I have. Thanks for your information yesterday as well Calvin. I really enjoyed talking with you. Since I have 2 warped blades and springs that I spent the time to get pretty close to "on" before heat treat, I am going to follow Calvin's surface grinding instructions. If they were fixed blades, I would try what Jason suggested and just go with it. I never thought I could have so much trouble out of something called Redneck Skin. I have been wearing it for over 40 years without a lick of trouble!:biggrin:
 
On the al Damascus I have the most problems with and like Kevin said is usually on the al Damascus one side will have a pattern and will have random lines and the other side will have really tight lines so it is probably whats causing it to warp I quench it for about 4-5 seconds in the oil then put it right away in my aluminum quench plates and let it cool the rest of the way down, uncle als riverside machine sells some nice quench plates that adjust for taper, I have pretty good luck with it that way. Actually the best thing I have found is just buy some from HHH on here you pay more but it works really well
 
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