Whats faster and why

AkWildman

Well-Known Member
What's a faster oil between canola oil and used transmition fluid.What is it that determins the speed ? Does the flashpoint somehow play in ? I wonder how fast avocado oil would be .I think I read it's very high and doesn't smoke or burn like other kitchen oils.My wife bought a jug for the kitchen and loves it.
 
here is a link to a discussion of veg oil quench. the paper that is listed has cooling curves for 4 veggie oil. speed is determined by how fast a standard ball heated to a standard temperature drops to a second temperature. the ball, i think, is a one inch sphere of nickel with a thermocouple inside.
 
Scott, you forgot the link!! (sounds like something I do). I remember the PDF file you are talking about but I don't have the link.

avocado oil? That's a new one for me. I'll talk to the wife about that one - she knows more than me anyway (so she says:)

Ken H>
 
The avocado oil is awesome in the kitchen,taste good no smoke and doesn't burn your food ,I may just have to test some out in the shop.
 
Thanks Scott,I tryed the link but it says you have to join to read the post I will do that and check it out.My main reason for asking this is I have to do a small run using 1095 and I do not want to have to try and find let alone purchase and ship a extteamly expensive quench oil.I have always used ATF and canola oil with 01 and 5160 ,I don't have a problem with the ATF as I am very careful about the fire and smoke.Any suggestions would be helpful and keep in mind this is Alaska .
 
i will check out the article and find the fastest veg oil. ATF is scary stuff, low flashpoint and the additives. the additives at room temperature are not too hazardous, but when burned(if it smokes, its burned) they turn into all kinds of interesting toxins.
here are the speed graphs. http://www.industrialheating.com/ext/resources/IH/Home/Images/ih0911-totten-fig2-lg.jpg
you might want to try soybean oil, it might a little faster than canola.
 
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So I contacted my local petroleum dealer and asked him if he could supply me with some commercial quench oil and that I needed a fast oil,he said he could get me some chevron 70 but only by the drum so that's out,then he said he knew that castrol had a quench oil out and he would check it out and send me some info.It's called Performance Biolubes Quench or PBL .He sent me the data sheet and the MSDS and guess what its 95-100 percent canola oil.According to the data sheet its a 19 second oil.I will see if I can copy and paste the data sheet if anyone is interested.
 
Ok I have the pdf files on my phone but can't copy and past,I can email to someone more computer savvy and maybe they can post it.
 
I'm not sure I'm reading that correctly,it's pure canola oil .Scott would you like me to email you the info ? If so just shoot me a pm with a email.
 
From all I have read, canola oil is the fastest of the vege oils, and Tai Goo, "ONE", on this board, reports good success with it and 1095. Of course, a formulated commercial oil such as Parks #50 or similar is going to be superior.
 
boss I think still has dt-48 witch is really close to parks I have been using it for two years now with great results.
 
Hi, you had asked how quench speed was measured. here are two chunks of source data. here is a link to a short version: http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/430/quench-oils
i found my copy of Dr. Verhoeven's Metallurgy for the Bladesmith and copied this chunk. if you haven't read the paper, it is full of goood stuff. PM me if anyone wants a copy and i will email it to you. i have triple checked, there are no copyright issues doing this.

There has been considerable research on this problem in the
latter decades of the 20th century and a method
developed in England has now been adopted as an
international standard for characterizing quench
fluids, ISO 9950. The test utilizes an Inconel 600
alloy cylinder (basically the same Ni-Cr alloy as used for
the heating elements of your electric stove), 12.5 mm in
diameter by 60 mm long. A metal clad type K
thermocouple (see Appendix A) is fitted into a hole
along its center and the output of this thermocouple is monitored during the quench. The
output produces a cooling curve such as that shown for an oil bath in Fig. 12.10. The
heat transfer during the quench can be partitioned into 3 stages, conventionally called A,
B and C. Initially, during the A stage, heat transfer is relatively slow as the heat must
pass through the vapor blanket that initially surrounds the immersed sample. Notice that
the B stage begins with a rapid increase in the rate at which the temperature drops. When
the oil (or water) begins to penetrate through the vapor blanket it contacts the hot steel and
immediately boils. The heat required to boil the liquid is removed from the steel and this
mode of heat transfer is extremely efficient. It is called
"nucleate boiling heat transfer", hence the name of stage
B shown on Fig. 12.10. When the boiling stops heat is
transferred directly to the liquid touching the steel
causing its temperature to increase which, in turn, drops
its density. Hence, this liquid rises and is replaced by
colder liquid contacting the steel piece. The motion of
the liquid is called convection and hence the name of
stage C shown on Fig. 12.10.
For evaluating quenching intensity we are mainly
interested in how fast the temperature is falling and,
hence, the most useful parameter is the cooling rate,
which will have units of oC/sec. (or oF/sec.). Therefore, it
has become common to characterize the quenching
power of a quenchant with a plot of cooling rate versus
temperature of the Inconel rod, and Fig. 12.11 is presented
to show you how such curves are related to the simple
cooling curve of Fig. 12.10. In order to obtain the cooling
rate at 400 oC, one constructs a tangent line to the cooling
curve at this temperature as shown. Then, moving from
the bottom of this line to the top one measures the rise,
ΔT, and the run, Δt. The ratio of the rise divided by the
run, ΔT/Δt (called the slope in geometry classes) will have units
of oC/sec. and will be the cooling rate when the Inconel
center is at 400 oC. With computer software it is a simple matter to determine the cooling
rate at each temperature and the solid line is the corresponding cooling curve with the
cooling rates in oC/sec. given along the top of the diagram. Notice that the maximum
cooling rate is 70 oC/sec. and it occurs at around 650 oC for this oil. There is an excellent
discussion of water, oil and polymer quenchants in reference [12.8], and you will see on
pages 78 to 81 that these cooling rate curves are now widely used to characterize the
quenching power of the various quenching oils and polymer quenchants that are
commercially available. Figure 12.12 presents cooling rate curves for several common
quenching fluids. Notice that the maximum cooling rate occurs at different temperatures
and varies from a high of 285 oC/sec. for salt water to a low of 65 oC/sec. for a normal
oil.
For a given quenchant, the speed of the quenching process will depend on the
temperature of the bath as well as any agitation used on the work piece during the
quenching operation.
 
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