What grit to teach on?

billyO

billyO

Well-Known Member
Hello all. My 35-ish y/o neighbor would like me to teach him how to make a damascus chef's knife. While the damascus part is a bit off in the future for him (no forging experience), I thought I could start with the grinding part. I've got a few 15N20 blanks that I cut out a number of years ago to use as patterns that I no longer use and thought we could start with one or more of these. I'm afraid to start him with 36g belts, and was thinking perhaps starting him with a 60g. Any suggestions from you guys who have done this before?
Thank you and stay safe, it looks like the end of having to say this is near....
 
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Either 36 or 60 is my thinking. But, I think I would let him try either of those grits on some knife shaped wood to try getting some basic control instruction down.
 
I keep meaning to try a 36 grit. Just seems like it would take an extra step of grinding but I didn’t really want
 
I learned on 50 grit belts. still learning, I haven't tried any of the 36's i bought a year ago yet, at full tilt a 50 grit belt still puckers my posterior from time to time
 
I think the belt speed is more important. The newbies I have taught get nervous when I crank her up to WAO and they have more Trouble keeping everything straight. 36 grit belts at WAO will ruin your morning. I would say 50 or 60 grit run at newbie speeds would be good.
 
50 or 60 grit. I personally use 50 grit for my "heavy" grit belts. I've also never understood using 36 grit belts. They really don't cut noticeably faster, or remove much more material then a 50. What they do..... is force you to buy and use an extra belt/grit, or two. (usually you'll need to go from a 36 to either a 60 or 80 grit to remove the 36 grit scratches. Where as with a 50 grit, you get significant material removal, yet can jump to a 120 grit and remove the 50 grit scratches.

I also feel that variable speed is essential when teaching others to grind. Even though heavy belts don't perform their best, for teaching you want to dial the speed down... otherwise the student is too busy being intimidated to learn anything. :)
 
This is my suggestion. I would get him to buy some mild steel at one of the home depot places and practice on them. Also, I have seen Walter Sorrells suggest using a laminate so the layers can be seen as the grinding takes place. Before he starts I would also suggest he watch a few videos from EKIM knives on the you tube.
I also agree with the 60 grit belts, fresh ones.
 
billyO said:
Hello all. My 35-ish y/o neighbor would like me to teach him how to make a damascus chef's knife. While the damascus part is a bit off in the future for him (no forging experience), I thought I could start with the grinding part. I've got a few 15N20 blanks that I cut out a number of hears ago to use as patterns that I no longer use and thought we could start with one or more of these. I'm afraid to start him with 36g belts, and was thinking perhaps starting him with a 60g. Any suggestions from you guys who have done this before?
Thank you and stay safe, it looks like the end of having to say this is near....
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Hollow or flat grind?
How thick will the blank be?

A kitchen knife is usually pretty thin and even a 50 or 60grit can get away from a nooby. I know a lot of guys that don't go bigger than 80grit. Definitely have him practice with some cheap mild in the same thickness and shape. Than try a mono steel for the final "proof" he can do it, then the fancy stuff. Slow and steady wins the race.
 
EdCaffreyMS said:
50 or 60 grit. I personally use 50 grit for my "heavy" grit belts. I've also never understood using 36 grit belts. They really don't cut noticeably faster, or remove much more material then a 50. What they do..... is force you to buy and use an extra belt/grit, or two. (usually you'll need to go from a 36 to either a 60 or 80 grit to remove the 36 grit scratches. Where as with a 50 grit, you get significant material removal, yet can jump to a 120 grit and remove the 50 grit scratches.

I also feel that variable speed is essential when teaching others to grind. Even though heavy belts don't perform their best, for teaching you want to dial the speed down... otherwise the student is too busy being intimidated to learn anything. :)
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I agree with Ed. I see no use for 36 grit belts. Extra deep scratches that take more time/belts to remove.
 
J. Doyle said:
I agree with Ed. I see no use for 36 grit belts. Extra deep scratches that take more time/belts to remove.
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This right here.

I started with 36 grit for several years. These were the same years that I despised hand sanding. Coinkydink? I wish. It’s impossible to see a couple stray 36 grit scratches (especially inside a plunge!) until you’re at a much higher grit... or hand sanding.

I hadn’t used a 36 in a couple of years until the other day. I’ve had several brand new 36s hanging there forever and decided to use one up on a chef knife. I shocked myself. It cut like crap, and it was a very expensive belt that I used to buy before I discovered VSM belts.

I couldn’t believe how bad it was cutting. I threw a brand new 60 on and the grinder and the cut immediately improved and of course the bevel was instantly flatter and the finish 100% better. I could see exactly what I was removing each pass with the 60 versus gazing at the hot mess 36 leaves behind. It occurred to me that my grinding had gotten a lot better when I began starting all of my bevels at 60. Ironically I think I started using 60s one time when I ran out of 36s and liked how they cut. Maybe I figured this all out a few years ago and just forgot.

36s are great for profiling or hogging steel on non-knife projects but I won’t use a 36 on bevels anymore.
 
I use 36 Grit for hawging wood or micarta quickly. I quit using them on steel because of the gouges they dig. I start with 50 grit Cubitron II’s.
 
BossDog said:
Hollow or flat grind?
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Flat grind.
BossDog said:
How thick will the blank be?
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The 15N20 I have is from sawmill bandsaw and these are 0.090" thick IIRC (they've been in my scrap bin for years).
BossDog said:
have him practice with some cheap mild in the same thickness and shape.
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This is an interesting debate that I've seen over the years. Some folks agree with this, and others say to use an inexpensive high carbon steel so that it can turn into a functional blade if they do well. Because these are scrap pieces to me, I'm thinking about going with this because they are already profiled.

BossDog said:
then the fancy stuff.
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He won't be doing any damascus for a while, I can assure you.
J. Doyle said:
I see no use for 36 grit belts.
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John Wilson said:
I won’t use a 36 on bevels anymore.
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Thanks for this, guys. Reading your replies has brought some clarity to something that's been bugging me since getting back into the swing of things this past year, the deep scratches that seem to come out of nowhere that take way to long to get out. I just hadn't been able to put my finger on what the problem was. I was vacillating between being still out of practice and needing to spend more time at the grinder, to thinking that my eyes are getting worse faster than I'd like. But perhaps the problem is just not using the right tool.
I just wish I had posted this before getting my new order of 36 and 60 grit ceramics a month ago. Maybe I'll just start using them for billet prep.
Again, thanks!
 
Well, I can't help billyO, but I switched from 36 to 50 grit earlier this year and have found the same thing everyone else is saying. Which makes me feel good if nothing else. You get a lot more life out of a 50 than a 36 and I spend a lot less time "fixing" everything.
 
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