Welding up Ferry Flip

clancy

clancy

Well-Known Member
Any tips on getting the weld lines to disappear when doing a Ferry flip? I've been using a press but the billet cools down so fast I think I would do better with the little Giant.

You can see the problems I'm having with lines between every repeat.

twobillets.jpg


ernie
 
Ernie,

Give us a run down on what you are doing when you are laying up and doing your weld. I will do what I can to assist but need to know your process in order to make suggestions.
 
I stack 24 pieces of alternating 1095 and 15N20 and forge weld it, next I rotate the billet 90 degrees and draw it out making a bunch of squashed parallel lines. After clean up I cut the billet into 6 pieces, forge weld and draw out the billet, everything is fine up to this point.

The final step is to clean and cut the billet on 45 degree angles, rotate each 90 degrees to show the pattern. Forge welding of these is causing me problems leaving lines.

file-83.jpg


ernie
 
Ernie.
Instead of welding the pieces together on the top tack them together on the sides. The other option is to leave the billet thick enough that you surface grind off enough material to remove the weld material.
This Zoe Crist Vid should help, right at about 3:47 shows this.

[video=youtube;CCDeYM828X8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCDeYM828X8[/video]
 
Last edited:
Thanks, I guess I need to make a bigger billet and surface grind it to clean it up prior to cutting the 45 degree angles. Those are the 2 biggest differences I saw in the video. It looks like I need to slow down and do more prep work.

ernie
 
Ernie I've had some similar poor welds with this method too. You're not alone. I think if we leave it thicker and cross cut it at a shallow angle so it has more mating surface area for the forge welds. I also like to forgo the flux and do a dry weld. Its allot of mig welding I know but the dry weld doesnt leave that "ghost" white line you see even in the utube video. Be sure to grind off the excess mig weld to prevent the humped up mig weld from pushing the gap open when squeezing down in the press. Be careful you dont grind all the mig weld off. Also be careful you dont penetrate too deep or you'll end up with a razor thick billet by the time you get all the mig weld ground away.
I'm actually in the first stages of this method and plan to go with the shallower angle so I'll let ya know how it works.
 
You are right.... I saw the dreaded white lines in the video. A no flux weld? Does that require mig welding all the way around?

I made one billet where I tacked a piece of thin 1095 on top and bottom so it wouldn't break apart under the power hammer. It worked but took a lot of extra grinding at the end. At that point I decided to build a press thinking I could get away with being more sloppy.

ernie
 
Hi Ernie,

I am with Bruce forgo the flux and yes you need to either MIG weld or better would be TIG weld it. Another way I would go would be to just weld the top and bottoms not the faces where the pattern is and put it in a can for the welding. This would make for less welding and grinding, just be sure to put some WD-40 in to burn up the oxygen and wrap it in some used HT stainless foil so it won't weld to the can.

That should clear up your white lines and surface grinding the billets will make everything fit nice and tight for welding.
 
Mike I've used the can trick before with great success. Good thinking.
Mike Turner said:
Hi Ernie,

I am with Bruce forgo the flux and yes you need to either MIG weld or better would be TIG weld it. Another way I would go would be to just weld the top and bottoms not the faces where the pattern is and put it in a can for the welding. This would make for less welding and grinding, just be sure to put some WD-40 in to burn up the oxygen and wrap it in some used HT stainless foil so it won't weld to the can.

That should clear up your white lines and surface grinding the billets will make everything fit nice and tight for welding.
Click to expand...
 
I guess I could cut a pattern and weld up a can out of sheet metal, that gives me an excuse to buy the plasma cutter I've been wanting. I assume there is an air gap. How do you know when the billet is hot enough inside the can? I always look for the flux to be boiling on a solid billet.

ernie
 
Hi Ernie,

I just use my bandsaw to cut up box tubing that way I have 2 corners I do not have to weld. Also be sure to put some paper or the like in to burn up the air. I weld mine tight so I just use some paper, some guys like WD40 if you do this leave a pin hole as the WD40 will expand the can and rupture it.

What I do is I let my forge come up to max heat while I am prepping my can, when I put my billet in I let the forge come back to heat and what I look for is that the billet is the same color as the liner and I roll it to make sure there are no shadows. Not sure how others do it. I am getting ready to do a billet like this in the next few days I will try and take pictures.

I suppose you could throw some flux on it, I personally don't use that method but if it works for you by all means stick with it. I use to use it in my farrier job welding bar shoes and found that technique would work some days and others I would have failed welds so I go by experience and look at color of indication.
 
Thanks Mike,

I was thinking that if there is an air gap between the billet and the can, the can would look ready but the billet would be lagging and not really up to temperature due to the insulating properties of the air. Then I got to thinking that I could make my own can exactly the size of the billet to eliminate the air space. I guess you make the billet oversize and then grind it down to fit the can?

ernie
 
Hi Ernie,

I make my cans fit my billets they are tight, I have no problem reading the temp. I may have one in process in the shop, if so I will take a picture for you. If not I will do one so you can see.
 
I understand now, I missed the cut tubing to fit part. Why didn't I think of that? Great idea!

I will give it a try.

ernie
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top