Stabilizing Wood and Acrylic Resin Hybrid Scales

[CDHumiston]

I think I'm ready to start stabilizing my own wood and also making knife scales from acrylic resins.

I've watched a lot of YouTube videos and it seems for stabilizing people are using vacuum pots and small hobby air pumps to remove all the air from the chamber and force the cactus juice into the wood. For casting acrylic, I see the use of pressure type vessels where the materials are pressurized to remove air bubbles.

I'm wondering if it's possible to use just one set up or the other to do both jobs and achieve good results.

Anyone have experience and words of wisdom?

 

[Smurf masher]

I've only stabilized 4 handles. But.. I also have watched MANY Youtube videos! This vid here shows both processes combined.

The guy uses a pressure pot and a vaccuum pot. The vaccuum for the cactus juice, and the pressure pot for the casting resin. So I think that answers the question. If he could have used one pot for both, he surely would have.

But.. I'm not sure why a pressure pot is needed with casting resin, if the aim is to get rid of air bubbles then maybe a vaccuum would do it? You need an answer from a pro, who understands why you pressurise casting resin.

 

[CDHumiston]

I've only stabilized 4 handles. But.. I also have watched MANY Youtube videos! This vid here shows both processes combined.

The guy uses a pressure pot and a vaccuum pot. The vaccuum for the cactus juice, and the pressure pot for the casting resin. So I think that answers the question. If he could have used one pot for both, he surely would have.

But.. I'm not sure why a pressure pot is needed with casting resin, if the aim is to get rid of air bubbles then maybe a vaccuum would do it? You need an answer from a pro, who understands why you pressurise casting resin.

I tend to agree with you. I've watched more and more videos.

It looks like you need a Vacuum pot and Cactus Juice for stabilizing and a pressure pot for casting resin to remove the air bubbles.

I already have some stabilized wood so I'm going to start with the pressure pot set up...

 

[52 Ford]

I've only stabilized 4 handles. But.. I also have watched MANY Youtube videos! This vid here shows both processes combined.

The guy uses a pressure pot and a vaccuum pot. The vaccuum for the cactus juice, and the pressure pot for the casting resin. So I think that answers the question. If he could have used one pot for both, he surely would have.

But.. I'm not sure why a pressure pot is needed with casting resin, if the aim is to get rid of air bubbles then maybe a vaccuum would do it? You need an answer from a pro, who understands why you pressurise casting resin.

I talked to a guy a while ago about this. He worked in (owned?) a prototyping shop. People would come to them with designs, and they'd make the prototypes.

Anyway, casting epoxy resin... if you draw a vacuum on it, the bubbles expand and you end up with a foamy mess. With a pressure pot, you end up shrinking the already tiny bubbles down to the point that they're for all intents and purposes not there anymore.

I'm cooking dinner right now... I'll elaborate in a bit. Gotta go... don't wanna burn the beef

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[52 Ford]

Ok... dinners done.

You can get a combo pressure/vacuum chamber. Heavy wall pressure vessel with a clamp-down lid/door.

As far as collapsing the bubbles in the epoxy, the only thing that I was initially concerned with was adding stress to the epoxy. Well, I thought about it a bit... you're talking about VERY minimal stress. A bubble that is one ten-thousandth of an in in diameter has so little surface area that even if it has hundreds of PSI of pressure contained in it, it won't make any difference.

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[CDHumiston]

Ok... dinners done.

You can get a combo pressure/vacuum chamber. Heavy wall pressure vessel with a clamp-down lid/door.

As far as collapsing the bubbles in the epoxy, the only thing that I was initially concerned with was adding stress to the epoxy. Well, I thought about it a bit... you're talking about VERY minimal stress. A bubble that is one ten-thousandth of an in in diameter has so little surface area that even if it has hundreds of PSI of pressure contained in it, it won't make any difference.

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That looks delicious! Just finished some homemade Nachos myself...

 

[fitzo]

Chris, if you search "stabilizing" or "cactus" and put BossDog in the member field you'll come up with quite a few posts where Tracy discusses his methods and how he developed them. Good info in there to help you decide what you want to do. One thing I know you'll face with Cactus Juice is the foaming. Plan on how to deal with that from the beginning so you don't dose your pump.

I'm flat full and that pie still looks pretty darned tasty, @52 Ford !

Nancy and I had just about finished prepping dinner (chili. I was busy cooking sausage balls to toss in to steep.) Doorbell. Our large-familia Mexican neighbors are having a birthday hoot for 3 year old Leo so they brought the old folks a plate of food literally falling over the edge. We cleaned the plate. haha Our intended supper is sitting there. LOL
First thing, grabbed a big bite of a roasted jalapeno and danged if it wasn't one of those one-in-a-thousand screaming hot surprises. Tears on that one. The other one was okay. Excellent flavor in a roasted jalapeno.
Chicken was fall off the bone, great rice and beans. Desserts were just slightly out of the norm for us, tasty and enjoyable.
Thanks, Theresa!

 

[CDHumiston]

Chris, if you search "stabilizing" or "cactus" and put BossDog in the member field you'll come up with quite a few posts where Tracy discusses his methods and how he developed them. Good info in there to help you decide what you want to do. One thing I know you'll face with Cactus Juice is the foaming. Plan on how to deal with that from the beginning so you don't dose your pump.

I'm flat full and that pie still looks pretty darned tasty, @52 Ford !

Nancy and I had just about finished prepping dinner (chili. I was busy cooking sausage balls to toss in to steep.) Doorbell. Our large-familia Mexican neighbors are having a birthday hoot for 3 year old Leo so they brought the old folks a plate of food literally falling over the edge. We cleaned the plate. haha Our intended supper is sitting there. LOL
First thing, grabbed a big bite of a roasted jalapeno and danged if it wasn't one of those one-in-a-thousand screaming hot surprises. Tears on that one. The other one was okay. Excellent flavor in a roasted jalapeno.
Chicken was fall off the bone, great rice and beans. Desserts were just slightly out of the norm for us, tasty and enjoyable.
Thanks, Theresa!

Thanks for the search info, that really brought up some great threads.

Looks like you lucked into some good food tonight! Love some Jalapeno's!

 

[Smurf masher]

I think I'm ready to start stabilizing my own wood and also making knife scales from acrylic resins.

I've watched a lot of YouTube videos and it seems for stabilizing people are using vacuum pots and small hobby air pumps to remove all the air from the chamber and force the cactus juice into the wood. For casting acrylic, I see the use of pressure type vessels where the materials are pressurized to remove air bubbles.

I'm wondering if it's possible to use just one set up or the other to do both jobs and achieve good results.

Anyone have experience and words of wisdom?

Another link here:

This guy makes amazing resin/wood tables, and due to the size cannot use a vaccuum or pressure, he uses slow set, high viscosity resin. He doesn't even vibrate the mould and gets perfect results.

 

[52 Ford]

Another link here:

This guy makes amazing resin/wood tables, and due to the size cannot use a vaccuum or pressure, he uses slow set, high viscosity resin. He doesn't even vibrate the mould and gets perfect results.

With how popular epoxy resin "stuff" has gotten now, you can get all kinds of different types of epoxy specifically for furniture and whatnot. Depending on the epoxy, I believe that some of it can be degassed (I believe that's the proper term) using a vacuum chamber before you start the pour. The issue is that it foams up and makes a goopy, sticky mess.

A word of warning: epoxy releases heat as part of its curing process - sometimes a LOT of heat. Deep pours, especially those with fast setting epoxy can be dangerous.

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[Edwardshandmadeknives]

I’ve done a fair bit of stabilizing, no resin casting though. I am using a 8” diameter steel pipe with a 150# 8-bolt flange welded on. I use a refrigerant pump to pull vacuum. It’s helpful to do a couple samples and section up them and look at them under a microscope to see what kind of penetration you are getting. It takes a lot longer than you might think to vacuum all the air out. After the air is out, it also takes a lot longer than you might think to get all the resin into the wood. I’ll pull vac until when I shut off the pump and check the gauge, it doesn’t go up after an hour. That tells me that the air is out. Usually that takes around 10 hours. Once the air is out, I release the vacuum and pump in nitrogen from my purge tank for my HT oven. I pump it up to 500 psi, and pump it up occasionally until the gauge no longer drops, which tells me that the wood is fully saturated. Sometimes this takes a couple days. After that, I release the pressure and let them sit all day at room pressure. If you take them out immediately, they will leak everywhere if you don’t do this. I cook them at 205F for two hours to set the resin. Don’t short this time! If the resin doesn’t cure because you rushed it, you are pretty much screwed. This is for Cactus Juice. I haven’t tried bone or antler, etc. it works really good, but it’s not cheap at all to do yourself. I got a couple grand into my setup, and you still have to source some material to stabilize. Kinda fun to play with though.

 

[52 Ford]

I’ve done a fair bit of stabilizing, no resin casting though. I am using a 8” diameter steel pipe with a 150# 8-bolt flange welded on. I use a refrigerant pump to pull vacuum. It’s helpful to do a couple samples and section up them and look at them under a microscope to see what kind of penetration you are getting. It takes a lot longer than you might think to vacuum all the air out. After the air is out, it also takes a lot longer than you might think to get all the resin into the wood. I’ll pull vac until when I shut off the pump and check the gauge, it doesn’t go up after an hour. That tells me that the air is out. Usually that takes around 10 hours. Once the air is out, I release the vacuum and pump in nitrogen from my purge tank for my HT oven. I pump it up to 500 psi, and pump it up occasionally until the gauge no longer drops, which tells me that the wood is fully saturated. Sometimes this takes a couple days. After that, I release the pressure and let them sit all day at room pressure. If you take them out immediately, they will leak everywhere if you don’t do this. I cook them at 205F for two hours to set the resin. Don’t short this time! If the resin doesn’t cure because you rushed it, you are pretty much screwed. This is for Cactus Juice. I haven’t tried bone or antler, etc. it works really good, but it’s not cheap at all to do yourself. I got a couple grand into my setup, and you still have to source some material to stabilize. Kinda fun to play with though.

Yeah, I knew someone on here had made a pressure vessel like that, but I couldn't remember who.

Twas you!

By the way - when I glance at your username, I usually read it as "Edwardscissorhands". I've never even seen that movie (in part, because I think Johnny Depp is weird)

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[Edwardshandmadeknives]

Yeah, I knew someone on here had made a pressure vessel like that, but I couldn't remember who.

Twas you!

By the way - when I glance at your username, I usually read it as "Edwardscissorhands". I've never even seen that movie (in part, because I think Johnny Depp is weird)

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Yep, I was one of them. I believe Tracy has something similar too. Works really good. Strong vac pumps will crush weaker stuff, and the pipe setup will handle a LOT of pressure. Well, provided the welds are good. I paid a guy that is a certified welder that welds high pressure steam pipe for a living to weld mine. I wasn’t going to trust my welding with something like that!

 

[CDHumiston]

Thanks to all for the great information. I have to sit down and decide if I really want to do this. The knife hobby can pull you in so many directions.
Stock removal, forging, heat treating, leather making, wood stabilizing...

Every extra thing you do takes up time and money. I started with a quality 2x72 grinder, then I needed a heat treat oven, then a Rockwell tester, then a better bandsaw, next came air purification and dust removal, now I want a very expensive drill press because I've given up the thought of trying to get a mill in my garage along with all the other tools and my wife's car!

This is not to mention the small forge and not so small anvil I bought before I decide I'm no blacksmith! I hope to find someone local looking for a very nice brand new anvil.

 

[Smurf masher]

Thanks to all for the great information. I have to sit down and decide if I really want to do this. The knife hobby can pull you in so many directions.
Stock removal, forging, heat treating, leather making, wood stabilizing...

Every extra thing you do takes up time and money. I started with a quality 2x72 grinder, then I needed a heat treat oven, then a Rockwell tester, then a better bandsaw, next came air purification and dust removal, now I want a very expensive drill press because I've given up the thought of trying to get a mill in my garage along with all the other tools and my wife's car!

This is not to mention the small forge and not so small anvil I bought before I decide I'm no blacksmith! I hope to find someone local looking for a very nice brand new anvil.

I know what you mean... I've blown a ton of cash on kit. But you can do this slower within your spare change budget if you do it slow and stalk Ebay. You can get great results with normal wood and some decent polish.

Don't run into a expensive drill press just yet, I have a project coming up, I have all the kit and it's looking very promising for a actually decent drill/mill conversion, and it is small but mighty. But I am cautious about telling you all the parts till I've made it and made a video. I'm just saying, if you can wait about 3 months, (I have to move house first) and make do with a normal drill for now. You may get an option that does drill press, mill, combined for about £600 minus tooling. (which I spent 350 quid on)

 

[Edwardshandmadeknives]

Thanks to all for the great information. I have to sit down and decide if I really want to do this. The knife hobby can pull you in so many directions.
Stock removal, forging, heat treating, leather making, wood stabilizing...

Every extra thing you do takes up time and money. I started with a quality 2x72 grinder, then I needed a heat treat oven, then a Rockwell tester, then a better bandsaw, next came air purification and dust removal, now I want a very expensive drill press because I've given up the thought of trying to get a mill in my garage along with all the other tools and my wife's car!

This is not to mention the small forge and not so small anvil I bought before I decide I'm no blacksmith! I hope to find someone local looking for a very nice brand new anvil.

Stabilizing is kind of cool to mess with, but to be honest, if you are on the fence about it, I would say don’t bother with it. The only reason I ended up getting all the stuff and doing it was because once I bought the vac pump, I already was vested enough to where I didn’t want to back out. I could have bought a lot of stabilized wood for what it cost to get set up. Now I have the stuff, stabilized a few pieces, and it all sits in my shop doing nothing till I need it again in a couple years. If I went back in time I would have bought some other equipment and just bought stabilized wood from elsewhere. Just my 2 cents.

 

[CDHumiston]

Not sure about the stabilizing venture, but I am going to cast some acrylic hybrid scales with stabilized wood I have on hand. That means I'll only need the vacuum setup and some molds for now.

 

[52 Ford]

Not sure about the stabilizing venture, but I am going to cast some acrylic hybrid scales with stabilized wood I have on hand. That means I'll only need the vacuum setup and some molds for now.

Indeed. Whatcha gonna use for the mold?

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[CDHumiston]

Indeed. Whatcha gonna use for the mold?

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I'm sometimes lazy. I bought one from Lizard Blanks...