Small wheel attacment
- Thread starter Gliden07
- Start date
Gliden07
Well-Known Member
I ordered the Reeder small wheel adapter. I was going to get one of the 5 or 7 wheel kits from Oregon Blade Maker. They start at 1/4" and go to 1" if I remember right. But I know Ed and other makers on here like the rubber wheels for safety reasons. So I'm still deciding what I should get. The Reeder adapter has a couple of Idler wheel positions so you can get the diameter of small wheel to be a true size. USA Knife Maker has a similar set up which bolts to their Small wheel adapter.
Ty Adams
KNIFE MAKER
Another good reason to get the rubber wheels is the fact that with steel wheels every time the joint of the belt passes your blade steel it leaves a hump.
Motor City Mike
Well-Known Member
Keep in mind that you should run a small wheel slower than a larger wheel.
As you decrease the wheel diameter, you increase the RPMs that it's turning. Running it too fast can wear out the bearings quickly.
As you decrease the wheel diameter, you increase the RPMs that it's turning. Running it too fast can wear out the bearings quickly.
EdCaffreyMS
"The Montana Bladesmith"
"Small" wheels are just like everything else we do/use in knifemaking..... Give-n-Take. By that I mean that there are different advantages and disadvantages to each type and size. Personally, I am not a fan of any of the small wheel systems that have the bearings mounted "outboard" particularly on wheel diameters that are smaller then the OD of the bearings..... often times the bearings will get in the way, and limit what you can do with a given size wheel.
I favor small wheels that have internal bearings (the best example I can offer is to take a look at Bader's small wheel attachment)..... these type wheels/systems do not get in your way when grinding, allowing for far more versatility.
As far as sizes go, Although it's nice to have every size of small wheel, just in case you need it, over time I found it was a terrible waste of money. At one time I had just about every size small wheel available. The majority of them sat around gathering dust. I consider "small" wheels to be those that are 1" of less in diameter, and my platen already has a 1 1/2" wheel installed on the top and a 3" at the bottom (http://www.caffreyknives.net/grinder_platen.html ) which are sizes I use for different area of almost every knife I produce. The only small wheel/attachment that I keep/use is a 3/4", which is used for the area of guard/handle junction on knives with guards. Eventually, I gathered up every small wheel except my 3/4", and sold them off. Now I only use/keep 3/4" small wheels in the shop. If I need a smaller diameter then that, I find it much more user friendly to simply tear a belt down to size, and use to with a slack belt attachment.
If using small wheels, I feel that variable speed on your grinder is a necessity. As has been mentioned, small wheels will simply not tolerate high speeds. Either the bearings will burn out, or the rubber covering will simply disintegrate. For me, I've found that using small wheels with internal bearings is the way to go. Keeping the speed down, and only running them for a given amount of time (no more then 10 mins before allowing them to cool down).
That's my input on small wheels. As I said in the beginning, there are "give-n-takes" to just about anything we use or do in knifemaking. It's up to each individual to decide if the advantages out weight the disadvantages. Just remember...because you see it out there for sale, doesn't mean that the seller knows the ins and outs of it. I'd much rather give you my experiences, and tell you to stay away from all metal small wheels, then to hear/read that someone had a serious shop accident due using them.
I favor small wheels that have internal bearings (the best example I can offer is to take a look at Bader's small wheel attachment)..... these type wheels/systems do not get in your way when grinding, allowing for far more versatility.
As far as sizes go, Although it's nice to have every size of small wheel, just in case you need it, over time I found it was a terrible waste of money. At one time I had just about every size small wheel available. The majority of them sat around gathering dust. I consider "small" wheels to be those that are 1" of less in diameter, and my platen already has a 1 1/2" wheel installed on the top and a 3" at the bottom (http://www.caffreyknives.net/grinder_platen.html ) which are sizes I use for different area of almost every knife I produce. The only small wheel/attachment that I keep/use is a 3/4", which is used for the area of guard/handle junction on knives with guards. Eventually, I gathered up every small wheel except my 3/4", and sold them off. Now I only use/keep 3/4" small wheels in the shop. If I need a smaller diameter then that, I find it much more user friendly to simply tear a belt down to size, and use to with a slack belt attachment.
Let's talk about this situation. While you see all metal small wheels being sold, I have learned that they are far more hazardous to use them rubber coated ones. Why? The main reason is that because there is NO "give" in a metal wheel, The smaller the diameter used/run, the more likely you are for simply "peeling" the belt joint as it goes over a very tight radius...... the heavier the belt backing, the more often/more likely it is that the belt joint will pop when it goes over the radius of the wheel. This situation also happens readily on any belt with a mylar backing, such as micron belts. These same things CAN happen with rubber coated wheels, but it's far less common then with straight metal small wheels. Rubber covered wheels simply are more forgiving, and lessen the chances of getting smacked or sliced across the face when a belt joint fails.
If using small wheels, I feel that variable speed on your grinder is a necessity. As has been mentioned, small wheels will simply not tolerate high speeds. Either the bearings will burn out, or the rubber covering will simply disintegrate. For me, I've found that using small wheels with internal bearings is the way to go. Keeping the speed down, and only running them for a given amount of time (no more then 10 mins before allowing them to cool down).
That's my input on small wheels. As I said in the beginning, there are "give-n-takes" to just about anything we use or do in knifemaking. It's up to each individual to decide if the advantages out weight the disadvantages. Just remember...because you see it out there for sale, doesn't mean that the seller knows the ins and outs of it. I'd much rather give you my experiences, and tell you to stay away from all metal small wheels, then to hear/read that someone had a serious shop accident due using them.
I understand what you're saying there. I'd never considered the danger of a belt coming apart on a small wheel - since I've always used a small wheel at less than 1,000 SFPM, a breaking belt isn't near so exciting as at 5,000 SFPM.
bladegrinder
Well-Known Member
The only "small wheel" I use is 3/4" sold by Bader. they specifically state not to run them too long or too fast. sooner or later the bearings will go out though.
I found replacement bearings on ebay for something like $8.00 or so for five pairs. there easy to replace too.
I found replacement bearings on ebay for something like $8.00 or so for five pairs. there easy to replace too.
EdCaffreyMS
"The Montana Bladesmith"
I do the same thing!
Every year at the Blade Show, my first stop is always by Bader's table..... I buy one smooth, and one serrated 3/4" wheel..... usually gets me through till the next show!
bladegrinder
Well-Known Member
I did have one melt a while back, that wasn't pretty. I'm guessing that's what happened, the rubber swelled on about a third of the wheel, so that one's toast.
Gliden07
Well-Known Member
What brand can I get that will fit the outside bearing set up in rubber. The Bader wheels wont fit the Reeder Small Wheel attachment. The reason I went with there small wheel attachment is because they use a shaft to hold it on to the tool arm it doesn't use 2 bolts like many of the other small wheel attachments. I didn't want to reinvent the wheel.
EdCaffreyMS
"The Montana Bladesmith"
It never made sense to me that those producing grinders create/use different methods of attaching different attachments The only reason I can imagine is that they want to sell you as many tooling arms as they can?
Because of that, many years ago I changed over all of my grinder attachments to a 3/4" "stub", and built my tooling arms with a 3/4" socket/compression fit. (just like the old Wilton Square Wheel Grinders) Here's a pic....
At first I used a socket head bolt/allen wrench to provide the "clamping" pressure, but have since gone to the handle variety so it's tool free changeovers.
The only reason I can imagine is that they want to sell you as many tooling arms as they can? Because of that, many years ago I changed over all of my grinder attachments to a 3/4" "stub", and built my tooling arms with a 3/4" socket/compression fit. (just like the old Wilton Square Wheel Grinders) Here's a pic....
At first I used a socket head bolt/allen wrench to provide the "clamping" pressure, but have since gone to the handle variety so it's tool free changeovers.
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Gliden07
Well-Known Member
It never made sense to me that those producing grinders create/use different methods of attaching different attachments
Because of that, many years ago I changed over all of my grinder attachments to a 3/4" "stub", and built my tooling arms with a 3/4" socket/compression fit. (just like the old Wilton Square Wheel Grinders) Here's a pic....
At first I used a socket head bolt/allen wrench to provide the "clamping" pressure, but have since gone to the handle variety so it's tool free changeovers.
That is similar to my Reeder.
EdCaffreyMS
"The Montana Bladesmith"
Or totally botch it up!
If you notice in the pic, there is a 1/2" drilled hole where the two cuts meet.... my porta-band (mounted on a stand in the finish shop) has a 1/2" blade. I cut the vertical cut, then using that 1/2" hole, rotate the tooling arm (with the blade inside that 1/2" hole) so I can make the horizontal cut. Since the bandsaw blade is only .035" thick, I usually have to make a second pass on the horizontal cut so there's room for the portion above the cut to "clamp" without hitting the bottom of the cut.
If you do it in aluminum. make sure you leave the "web" on the front end radius a bit thicker....with aluminum, if that web is too thin, it will simply bend when you apply the clamping pressure, and then you have to take the screw/handle out, and use a prybar to get it to release. (I figured that one out the hard way!
)