Razor Sharp Edgemaking System

Austin Thrasher

Well-Known Member
#1
What is yalls opinion of this product? I bought one and while it does get knives really sharp, really fast, I’m just curious to see if there is any downsides I should be aware of. Sorry I don’t have any pics but this sharpening system is the paper wheels that go on a buffer. Silicon carbide grit on one side to establish a burr and white buffing rouge on the other side to strop and polish the burr off. I’ve heard some say that it establishes bad geometry on the blade but am curious what y’all think.
 

John Wilson

Well-Known Member
#2
I don’t know why it would be a problem. It’s probably not ideal for creating the initial secondary bevel on a knife that’s never been sharpened before (a new build) but once a knife has been sharpened all you’re usually doing is sharpening the cutting edge.

For the price why not give it a shot?
 

Austin Thrasher

Well-Known Member
#4
Finally got home from and decided to take some pics of mine. Ok. I still establish my edge with a 400 grit belt and then mainly just use this to touch up and get nice and sharp. I do have a nice diamond stone that I can get blades really sharp on but this is just soo fast...

74DFAE9C-055B-47FC-B6DF-45A8A554A894.jpeg Silicon carbide grit wheel. Needs re gritted btw
CFD39016-9FD9-4CE7-A2A0-A620389F7E77.jpeg The stropping wheel. B7CA3B3C-1A68-4B6F-9F34-FC0989F34B4D.jpeg
 

Motor City Mike

Well-Known Member
#5
I use the buffing wheel (without the grit) as part of my sharpening process.

But I establish the secondary bevel with done 120 or 220 belt on my 2x72 grinder.

The grit wheel is too aggressive IMO and wouldn't recommend using it every time you sharpen a knife. It wouldn't be long before all you'd have is a nub.

I don't use the grit wheel at all.
 

izafireman

Well-Known Member
#6
I used this system on my normal buffer but the problem was the issue was the wheels were spinning far too fast and so a huge risk of over heating the edges of your blades. Also keeping the angle was a bit hit and miss free hand and so I stopped using the system.

Recently I discovered this guy in Australia (Vadim) really helpful and has done tons of research into sharpening. I have now bought one of the Tormek T8 machines with CBN wheels, wow they are superb! I am also setting up a new buffer which is slower than the other and will be using new inch wide paper wheels on it as described in Vadims videos in the links below. Both wheels will be the ventilated type.

Last night I sharpened an Elmax knife on the Tormek using the program on my PC to set the angles and I couldn't believe how accurate the bevels were and how insanely sharp the knife was.....this was without doing the honing on the paper wheels (as still setting that up). I also found it a pleasure to grind the bevels on the Tormek which is water cooled so no risk of over heating the fine edges....there is a link to a study on this below.

As with Motor City Mikes comment I also will not be using the grit wheel , both will be coated in Diamond .5 and .25 micron and just to refine / hone.
the grit supplied with the wheels although quite coarse are not so in use but I would say the grit would only be useful to a non knife maker as makers will have belts and other better optons.

Below are links to Vadims method which is a very precise method, accurate to .5 degree. I am pretty sure once I get the hand of it I wont be using belts for secondary bevels or honing by any other method.

https://www.tormek.com/forum/index.php?topic=2963.0
https://www.tormek.com/forum/index.php?topic=3661.0

http://www.bessex.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=318

There is a lot more on his site which can be found on the links.
 
#7
Not exactly on the topic of this sharpening system, but I read on Jay Fishers site that using a grinder to sharpen a blade would ruin the temper on it. Is this only true for fixed speed grinders and 1x30's and such? Thank You!
 

Austin Thrasher

Well-Known Member
#8
Not exactly on the topic of this sharpening system, but I read on Jay Fishers site that using a grinder to sharpen a blade would ruin the temper on it. Is this only true for fixed speed grinders and 1x30's and such? Thank You!
Well I certainly am no one to debate with J Fisher, but I wouldn’t think you could ruin the heat treat on any knife unless it got too hot. Regardless of what you used. The heat is what would ruin the temper.
 

John Wilson

Well-Known Member
#10
Not exactly on the topic of this sharpening system, but I read on Jay Fishers site that using a grinder to sharpen a blade would ruin the temper on it. Is this only true for fixed speed grinders and 1x30's and such? Thank You!
I’m sure Jay Fisher has his reasons, or is drawing attention to a possibility, but the experiences of countless people don’t bear out his concerns. It’s a legitimate thought, since the edge is so thin the heat rise would be very fast. However, outside of the theoretical, it turns out to be a non-issue.
 

izafireman

Well-Known Member
#11
I’m sure Jay Fisher has his reasons, or is drawing attention to a possibility, but the experiences of countless people don’t bear out his concerns. It’s a legitimate thought, since the edge is so thin the heat rise would be very fast. However, outside of the theoretical, it turns out to be a non-issue.

I have a study that was sent to me regarding edge heating done by a university in NZ . I tried to attach it but couldn't , I will try again tomorrow.
 
#13
I could get my knives very sharp quickly using the paper wheel sharpening system. My experience however was that my edges seem to dull quickly and I was never confident that I could walk up to my grinder and get great looking edges. I tossed up between Tormek with angle setting using software that izafireman refers to versus a wicked edge. After years of looking at them I took a leap into wicked edge system. They are a lot of money but I am very happy the result. I feel I can take a knife I have spent a lot of time making and be very confident to put a visually pleasing edge on and get it very sharp. My edges also seem to be lasting a lot longer - no science behind it just my personal observation of my knives.
 
#14
I used this system on my normal buffer but the problem was the issue was the wheels were spinning far too fast and so a huge risk of over heating the edges of your blades. Also keeping the angle was a bit hit and miss free hand and so I stopped using the system.

Recently I discovered this guy in Australia (Vadim) really helpful and has done tons of research into sharpening. I have now bought one of the Tormek T8 machines with CBN wheels, wow they are superb! I am also setting up a new buffer which is slower than the other and will be using new inch wide paper wheels on it as described in Vadims videos in the links below. Both wheels will be the ventilated type.

Last night I sharpened an Elmax knife on the Tormek using the program on my PC to set the angles and I couldn't believe how accurate the bevels were and how insanely sharp the knife was.....this was without doing the honing on the paper wheels (as still setting that up). I also found it a pleasure to grind the bevels on the Tormek which is water cooled so no risk of over heating the fine edges....there is a link to a study on this below.

As with Motor City Mikes comment I also will not be using the grit wheel , both will be coated in Diamond .5 and .25 micron and just to refine / hone.
the grit supplied with the wheels although quite coarse are not so in use but I would say the grit would only be useful to a non knife maker as makers will have belts and other better optons.

Below are links to Vadims method which is a very precise method, accurate to .5 degree. I am pretty sure once I get the hand of it I wont be using belts for secondary bevels or honing by any other method.

https://www.tormek.com/forum/index.php?topic=2963.0
https://www.tormek.com/forum/index.php?topic=3661.0

http://www.bessex.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=318

There is a lot more on his site which can be found on the links.
thank you!! This is info I have been "scratching" for without realizing it...
 

izafireman

Well-Known Member
#15
I could get my knives very sharp quickly using the paper wheel sharpening system. My experience however was that my edges seem to dull quickly and I was never confident that I could walk up to my grinder and get great looking edges. I tossed up between Tormek with angle setting using software that izafireman refers to versus a wicked edge. After years of looking at them I took a leap into wicked edge system. They are a lot of money but I am very happy the result. I feel I can take a knife I have spent a lot of time making and be very confident to put a visually pleasing edge on and get it very sharp. My edges also seem to be lasting a lot longer - no science behind it just my personal observation of my knives.

Looks like you went the same route as I did. I bought a Wicked Edge which although got my edges incredibly sharp is was so utterly slow when sharpening Elmax which is a wear resistant steel, at HRC 61 some of the coarser stones just glided off the steel and didn't even leave a mark.

The paper wheel system also had its flaw in that you can get blade sharp quickly but very easy to dull the blade as your hand is not set in place as would a knife held in a jig.

I am not using system a Vadim uses where the edges on my blade are left abut .75-.5mm off the grinder and then the edges are cut using the Tormek and CBN wheels which are accurate to .5 degree and give excellent feed back in use.

With regards to lasting longer I then that is covered in on of the links I added above. I will try and add the other links I have today.
 

izafireman

Well-Known Member
#17
Izafireman...are you using one of those Sharp Bess testers?
Hi Ted.

No I don't have a BESS tester but looking to buy one next year along with a laser angle calculator. The links I have shared are from Vadim who runs a knife sharpening company, he has the test equipment.

EDIT..The only tests I have been doing recently have been various papers ...ie A4 first, then receipt or yellow pages and lastly Rizla papers all of which will give an indication of sharpness.
 
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izafireman

Well-Known Member
#18

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#19
Not exactly on the topic of this sharpening system, but I read on Jay Fishers site that using a grinder to sharpen a blade would ruin the temper on it. Is this only true for fixed speed grinders and 1x30's and such? Thank You!
You just have to go slow, use light pressure, constantly dip blade in water, ... basically keep it cool. You will ruin a few knives at first, but many things, including sharpening can be done on a $53 HF 4 by 36.
 
#20
You just have to go slow, use light pressure, constantly dip blade in water, ... basically keep it cool. You will ruin a few knives at first, but many things, including sharpening can be done on a $53 HF 4 by 36.
I understand you can sharpen a knife on many tools some of which are very cheap. Of course you can use a concrete footpath, coffee cup, car window, mouse pad etc etc. For me sharpening has been one of the most frustrating parts of knife making. Spending many hours finishing a knife to the best I can get it and then putting that blade back to a belt sander and/or paper wheels caused me much angst. I’d often finish a knife and not sharpen for some time bacause I was fairly sure the bevel I would put on was going to be less than perfect visually. I also see a lot of people posting pictures of their finished knives with the comment - all finished, just needs an edge put on it. Makes me think I am not the only one who feels that level of nervousness.

Knifemaking like a lot of things is so great because there are many ways and costs to get to a final product. Sharpening is no different.
 
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