Questions about the uses of the different leather weights

C Craft

C Craft

Well-Known Member
I have some questions about the uses of the different leather weights when it comes to making sheaths.

I about to make an order from http://www.wickett-craig.com/index.php/leathers/description-and-grading

So this is from their Overstock page, http://www.wickett-craig.com/index.php/leathers/description-and-grading

What I am thinking of doing is ordering as follows:

1 ea. Harness 11-13 oz Tan Special $123.00 per side (this one is to be spit to a 7-8oz, leaving a 4/5oz. which I will take also)


1 ea. English Bridle 8-10oz Tan Special $135.00 per side


In essence this will leave me the following:

1 ea. 4/5 oz. for thin leather needs
1 ea. 7/8 oz. for use smaller knife sheaths
1 ea.8/10 oz. for use with larger knives and for backing

Does that sound about right for the weight verses the use?

Also I assume that when they split a hide and you tell them you want both splits, that is considered two hides you are purchasing???

One other thing that concerns me about the Bridle and Harness leather, is this says the color is Tan, so I assume that means it is not the natural color of the Carving/Tooling grade. Rather it means it has been dyed! Can it be re-dyed without a problem?

This is the following description of their Carving/Tooling:
Our tooling leather is used by the best leather crafters in the world. The natural color is super for any color dye you want to use. It has the same great carving and tooling ability as the skirting. We stock this in 8-10oz and we will custom split it to any weight you want, free of charge. Check out our “color” and “pricing” tabs for more information.

My problem with it is that it is not thick enough to split and end up with a useable grade of leather, that is why I am thinking the Harness and Bridle might be the better choice! Any insight that anyone can share with me on this subject will help make my order easier and less stressful!:biggrin:
 
see if this will help you ........................

Weight, Thickness and Common Uses of Leather Hides and Skins

2 to 3 oz. weight 2/64" to 3/64" thickness is commonly used for molding, toolable linings, embossing.
3 to 4 oz. weight 3/64" to 4/64" thickness is commonly used for embossing, lightweight billfold backs, clutches.
4 to 5 oz. weight 4/64" to 5/64" thickness is commonly used for billfold backs, organizers, clutches.
5 to 6 oz. weight 5/64" to 6/64" thickness is commonly used for small cases and notebook covers.
6 to 7 oz. weight 6/64" to 7/64" thickness is commonly used for carved handbags, camera cases, journal covers.
7 to 8 oz. weight 7/64" to 8/64" thickness is commonly used for narrow belts, knife sheaths and small holsters.
8 to 9 oz. weight 8/64" to 9/64" thickness is commonly used for belts, holsters, saddle bags.
9 to 10 oz. weight 9/64" to 10/64" thickness is commonly used for heavier holsters and belts over 1-1/2" wide.
10 to 11 oz. weight 10/64" to 11/64" thickness is commonly used for carpenter's and linemen's belts.
 
:thumbup1: That will work and Wicket and Craig already emailed answers to my other questions!

This is their answer to splitting a hide!

Splitting takes at least 10 days to get thru our Splitting Dept.
The Split off portion is yours if you want it. You do pay for Splitting.
However the split off portion is included in the leather price.
 
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Just a thought, if you buy a thicker hide for your 8-10oz. and have it split to that size you'll get a smoother back side.
 
I've never had leather split. I'd like to hear how it goes for you and if there is some savings on doing it that way.
 
Boss I never had one split either but have heard of others doing this and then using both sides the heavier for sheath and the thinner for other things!

Anyone got any advice in this area?

I am sending out some PM' in hopes of getting some the big guns in on this conversation!
 
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Something to remember, even when it's split, only one of the pieces will have smooth leather that you can do any tooling on. The first leather I bought was off of ebay. It was very cheap but both sides were rough. I'm pretty sure it was what was left over after someone had leather split and they kept the good half. I still used it for some projects but they were extremely rough looking. Still handy to have around, especially if it's included in the price anyway.
 
Mike Fennessy said:
Something to remember, even when it's split, only one of the pieces will have smooth leather that you can do any tooling on. The first leather I bought was off of ebay. It was very cheap but both sides were rough. I'm pretty sure it was what was left over after someone had leather split and they kept the good half. I still used it for some projects but they were extremely rough looking. Still handy to have around, especially if it's included in the price anyway.
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that's exactly what I was thinking. I'm not sure what you could do with a double rough side of most any leather cosmetic wise...
 
BossDog said:
that's exactly what I was thinking. I'm not sure what you could do with a double rough side of most any leather cosmetic wise...
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I agree but when you make old looking sheaths and gun belts like I make at times it works perfect. KT
 
Hmmmmmm, now I hadn't thought about the double rough side. :eek:hmy:

Now that would kind of suck! :cursing:


I mean there are times I might could use a piece or two, but not a whole hide rough on both sides!!!

I am glad someone lit up my light bulb on this one. I don't know why but I was thinking two useable hides and that is not what is going to happen with a split hide :detective:

Time to rethink this cause that ole dog ain't gonna hunt.:s12202


EDIT:
OK just got to thinking about something the Wickett and Craig rep sent me as I posted this so had to back to their site!

http://www.wickett-craig.com/index.php/leathers/pricing

Under the Customize To Your Specifications section of their pricing their is this!


Customize To Your Specifications
Splitting Only $0.75/FT
Split and Refinish Flesh $1.10/FT
Embossing $2.00/FT
Pasted Flesh $0.75/FT
*Sorry no returns on split leather

If you notice there is a section for split and refinish flesh @ $1.10/FT

So has anyone ever had this done?

I would love to know if the split is a good as a regular hide?

I will have to set down and actually do the math to see whether this is cost effective or not but I knew I had once talked to a sheath maker and he told me he used the other split for smaller knives! I am not crazy, talk to myself maybe and answer myself but not crazy! :s11779:
 
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This is from a similar thread.

My leather work just didn't look clean and defined, not that I've done all that much, but I paid very close attention to detail. Paul Long kept telling me to get better leather.

Wicket and Craig skirting, you have to buy a side at a time,around $150.00 w/shipping at my location. Choice of colors and they will split it no charge. If you get 10-12 oz. and have it split to 8-9 it will be more true to thickness and the back will be more even and tight.

I did as Paul suggested and it made a big difference in my work.

Here is a good discussion,
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/774264-List-of-recommended-leather-suppliers

This is about dyeing wicket and craig leather
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...uestions-about-Wickett-amp-Craig-dyed-leather
 
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I line 100% of my work and I use 7/8 oz. and 2/3 oz. exclusively. I buy four colors Russett (natural), Chestnut (tannery dyed), Brown (tannery dyed) and Black (tannery dyed).

I don't much like the harness leather for what I do and the lack of all four colors is another reason I chose not to use it. I use UTILITY GRADE SADDLE SKIRTING sides split to the two weights I use.

Split leather does have a much smoother flesh side, and looks better in case you do not line your work.

I do not ask for, nor do I want the splits that come off the sides. Here is the reason why. Most of the strength and all of the good looks in leather is concentrated in in the "top grain" which is the epidermis. The flesh side or the rough side is far less fiber tight than the top grain area. One of the reasons, among, many that I choose to line everything I make is to have top grain showing everywhere on the sheath except the edges. Using the 7/8 combined with the 2/3 or deer skin in the case of pouch sheath I wind up with about a 10 oz. equivalent weight on the finished sheaths.

The very reason I have no use for the splits is that the top grain has been removed, and the strength has been compromised to a degree. If you are making a rough out piece I suppose you might find a use for the splits if you cemented them to double or triple layers, but the effort expended is not worth it to me for a less than first rate sheath or other item. I suppose you could use it for welt material, but again it's not worth the effort to create the thicknesses I might need. Those of you who are causal sheath makers might well see these points differently with regard to getting your full dollar's worth.

So in summation: Wickett&Craig Utility grade Saddle Skirting color/colors of your choice split to the weight of your choice and I let them keep the splits. The splits are just extra weight in freight costs.

The two links in Mark's post above are really full of information if you read the whole thread.

I am at your service for questions any time either by email or preferably by phone. Contact information is below in my sig line.

Paul
 
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Think of splits as "swede", no skin or "tooling" side as you know it...The "split" is the underside or flesh side of the hide. It has a suede look on both sides top and bottom. The leather is not as strong as grain leather.. It's great for the "rough out" look that Terry mentioned.......The split and refinish is a coating that simulates the removed skin...

Sorry Paul, didn't see page two!!! What Paul said....
 
C Craft said:
Thanks for all the info, I am learning a lot from this thread!
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Me too, thanks for asking the original question. I recently moved away from unlined sheathes because I dont like the rough showing. I have been buying two different weight sides so that I can do this. This whole thing is a learning curve for me. I have found that there is far more that I dont know than I do know, but I am fascinated by working leather, so for me it's all good. Plus...the wife is letting me take over the spare bed room to set up a computer / leather working room. Talk about stoked! I love her to pieces but she has never stood behind me on anything like she has been behind me supporting my knife making efforts.
p.s. she likes to cash the checks for knife sales too.
 
Lagrange said:
m. Talk about stoked! I love her to pieces but she has never stood behind me on anything like she has been behind me supporting my knife making efforts.
p.s. she likes to cash the checks for knife sales too.
Click to expand...

:3::35::biggrin: Behind every good man is a woman!
 
Paul Long said:
I line 100% of my work and I use 7/8 oz. and 2/3 oz. exclusively.
Paul
Click to expand...

Paul, something you said in your post caught my eye. I assume when you line your sheaths, you are putting the smooth side of the 2/3 oz. leather in towards the knife! Is that the reason you line your sheaths for a more finished look on the inside of the sheath, or is there another reason? I have always admired your work and I am trying to understand your reasoning on that one!



To Paul or anyone out there that has had hides split. I am thinking of buying a 10/12 oz. skirting side and having it cut from head to tail at the halfway mark like this line I have drawn int the following pic!

side_zps6107d6fb.jpg



Then having them leave the upper half I want to leave 10/12 and the lower half/belly I want to split to 8/10. That should be the thinner area anyway!

In essences that would give one half of a side 10/12 and the other half 8/10 or two weights for different uses. For now that will save me a little money and next time I can order a whole side in the weight I want. Does that make sense to anyone?????:what!:
 
Clifton, I answered your email in detail. Feel free to post it here if you want to for the benefit of others who may have similar concerns.

Paul
 
As this is what this whole thread was about to learn and let others learn. Here is Paul's email to me! EDITED:I just got to thinking this probably makes no sense unless I post the email I sent to Paul, so here it is too!

[/COLOR]
After your last post, I asked a question of you and then threw another out there in general. The following is that post from the thread!

Paul, something you said in your post caught my eye. I assume when you line your sheaths, you are putting the smooth side of the 2/3 oz. leather in towards the knife! Is that the reason you line your sheaths for a more finished look on the inside of the sheath, or is there another reason? I have always admired your work and I am trying to understand your reasoning on that one!



To Paul or anyone out there that has had hides split. I am thinking of buying a 10/12 oz. skirting side and having it cut from head to tail at the halfway mark like this line I have drawn int the following pic!

side_zps6107d6fb.jpg
[/COLOR]

Then having them leave the upper half I want to leave 10/12 and the lower half/belly I want to split to 8/10. That should be the thinner area anyway!

In essences that would give one half of a side 10/12 and the other half 8/10 or two weights for different uses. For now that will save me a little money and next time I can order a whole side in the weight I want. Does that make sense to anyone?????



Sorry if this is long winded Paul but, I know you have great knowledge in this area! I have always admired your work and valued your opinion! Thanks for any info you can share with me!



This is Paul's response to email:
Clifton, the main reason I line everything is two fold. One is to be sure there is no flesh side of the leather showing anywhere on the sheath and the other is that the top grain (good side) of lining which faces the inside of the sheath is very easy on knife blades and expensive handle material. All linings are glued up flesh to flesh which leaves the top grain exposed on both sides.

Regarding the photo below, having a side cut in half long wise and then splitting the two pieces to different weights, I don't have any idea whether Wickett&Craig will do that or not. You'll have to discuss it with Glen Proud 800 number plus ext. 222 and explain exactly what you want and see if they will do it.

There is one great fallacy in doing this. The belly half of the side will have a fairly large area running length wise that will be by comparison just plain shitty leather whether it is split or not, UNLESS it is split all the ay down to 2/3 oz. The belly and flank areas are much looser fiber connections (soft and flanky feeling). The top grain is okay and that is just about all 2/3 is.

I just bought a Cobra 14 splitter, and I belly out the sides here in the shop and then run the belly leather through the splitter and make my own 2/3 and it's really very useable where if I had left it at 7/8 it would have been trash.

You might want to post this back on the forums for the benefit of the other guys.


I am fast learning there are no cheap alternatives not only in the purchase of but how it is purchase when it concerns leather! Noty that I am cheap, :what!: err, rather I prefer to call myself frugal :biggrin:
 
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