Pricing knives on FaceBook?
- Thread starter Smallshop
- Start date
John Wilson
Well-Known Member
I do exactly that... When people ask for prices I reach out to them directly. I do this for two reasons.
First, it gives me a chance to speak to a potential client directly. This is huge. We end up talking back and forth, sending them pictures of my work, etc. I get to explain my pricing structure in detail for different designs, materials, etc. It becomes a conversation and almost always leads to a sale. Almost every one of my customers becomes a repeat customer. A lot of them come back to order a knife several more times. I'm a huge believer in building relationships. Tossing out a price that gets no response is giant wasted opportunity.
Secondly, my prices are always creeping upward. I don't want prices floating around from a year ago that people want me to honor. Two years ago you could get the same knife from me for $200 less than I charge now. The last person I want to compete with is myself.
First, it gives me a chance to speak to a potential client directly. This is huge. We end up talking back and forth, sending them pictures of my work, etc. I get to explain my pricing structure in detail for different designs, materials, etc. It becomes a conversation and almost always leads to a sale. Almost every one of my customers becomes a repeat customer. A lot of them come back to order a knife several more times. I'm a huge believer in building relationships. Tossing out a price that gets no response is giant wasted opportunity.
Secondly, my prices are always creeping upward. I don't want prices floating around from a year ago that people want me to honor. Two years ago you could get the same knife from me for $200 less than I charge now. The last person I want to compete with is myself.
John, I understand your response, but there is a whole group of folks like me who really wish to see the price up front. If there is no price listed, I tend to think guy doesn't wish to sell.... at least to me. Perhaps a price range would works? You know the old saying "If you have to ask how much, then you can't afford it so don't bother asking".
Gliden07
Well-Known Member
I think that would be the best response? As John said it opens a conversation up. Not only that I would think you would get people that were more serious about buying than if you had open pricing? You guys know how some of these Forums get "I want X amount of dollars for this knife", "why do you want so much", "I could make one for half that!!"etc... why would you want to open yourself to that kind of abuse? You have a product to sell you want X amount of dollars, do you want it? Yes or No? Ok thank you for asking or, send me your MONEY!! LOL!! Just my thought on this.
John Wilson
Well-Known Member
In my case, I'm not posting a knife for sale. I'm driving future sales. If I was offering a knife for sale then posting a price would make sense. I work from a waiting list and I post pics of knives I just completed, but they are already sold.
My process works like this:
A person sees the pictures of the knife I just completed for someone. This generates the interest and the requests for "how much?" This allows me to open a dialogue with the interested person. I explain that I work from a waiting list. We talk, I share pictures of other work. We discuss what kind of knife the customer wants, what kind of handle, personal preferences, whatever. We come to an agreement on what the person wants and the price for it. Once that is hammered out, that order goes on my waiting list. When that person's name is about to come up on the list I reach out them to make sure we're still good to go and then I start work.
As I'm working on a knife I post work in progress pics and I also post pics when the knife is done. But all the pictures are doing is driving interest so that people will comment on the pictures and share them. As I mentioned, that is my marketing strategy. People who express interest by commenting or reaching out to me is where the sales process begins.
Every knife I make is sold before I start making it. There are pros and cons to this, which we often discuss here on the forums. But in my current way of doing things, having prices out there undercuts myself during that conversation with a prospective customer. My current customers also like it because it's nobody's business what they paid for something.
My process works like this:
A person sees the pictures of the knife I just completed for someone. This generates the interest and the requests for "how much?" This allows me to open a dialogue with the interested person. I explain that I work from a waiting list. We talk, I share pictures of other work. We discuss what kind of knife the customer wants, what kind of handle, personal preferences, whatever. We come to an agreement on what the person wants and the price for it. Once that is hammered out, that order goes on my waiting list. When that person's name is about to come up on the list I reach out them to make sure we're still good to go and then I start work.
As I'm working on a knife I post work in progress pics and I also post pics when the knife is done. But all the pictures are doing is driving interest so that people will comment on the pictures and share them. As I mentioned, that is my marketing strategy. People who express interest by commenting or reaching out to me is where the sales process begins.
Every knife I make is sold before I start making it. There are pros and cons to this, which we often discuss here on the forums. But in my current way of doing things, having prices out there undercuts myself during that conversation with a prospective customer. My current customers also like it because it's nobody's business what they paid for something.
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John Wilson
Well-Known Member
My model works for me because I'm one dude in a little shop working in my spare time. My goal is to generate buzz around my knives and get other people talking. My goal is to drive my prices up continuously over time. I don't need old prices from the past out there haunting me.
If I was a production shop trying to turn 1000 sales a month then the model I use would be crazy. I don't call myself an artist, but that's exactly the model I follow where each piece is commissioned and the price is an agreement between me and the customer.
If I was a production shop trying to turn 1000 sales a month then the model I use would be crazy. I don't call myself an artist, but that's exactly the model I follow where each piece is commissioned and the price is an agreement between me and the customer.
C Craft
Well-Known Member
You know I am just a hobbyist but at the same time I do like to make a little money!! When I first started I sold some knives for not much more than the materials I had in them! Hoping that it would get my name out there. It did and the name was sucker. For every one I sold for a little of nothing, I got request for more,...........at the same price I sold the first one at!! As John said, I was my own best competitor!!
When my wife got so sick I sold some of my stuff off and basically quit for a while! I got the urge to do it all again. So at slower pace I set out to build a knife and get what I figured was an honest price for it!! Another thing I did I started building what I wanted to. When I finished it, if you wanted to buy it you were welcome to it!! At a price that I thought was fair. I still think I am under valuing some of my stuff, but I am also still learning as I go!!
I think one of the biggest problems is that a custom knife is not for everyone! When you get the Wallyworld mentality asking prices, ........lets face it you probably ain't gonna sell one to that person! He falls into that category of probably not for everyone or at least him!
I don't have a website or a facebook account. Hopefully after the first of the year I may be able to step up a little more and then we will see!
I had to finally look at this like a business, even though it still is not really a moneymaker for me yet. When I use to do construction, you came to me with the job, mostly because I had a good reputation. You explained what you wanted , I figured it up and gave you a price. You didn't come to me because I had an add giving the lowest price! If you didn't like the price then maybe we could discuss some options. But I didn't give away my time, material and labor, I still had to make a profit!! When I started thinking of knife making like that I begin to enjoy it more!!
I don't do many pre-sales but when I do I get my price or I don't do it. Now I am not ugly to the prospective customer but if we are within walking distance of each other (pardon the pun) then we can probably negotiate! It helps to open a dialogue and explain a bit more about what a custom knife entails, and why I will do my best to make you a happy customer if you decide to go my with me!!
I agree with John on this one. Out front pricing can be your own competition.
Custom knives aren't always as expensive as you might think. Its kind of like a hunter who will spend a fortune on his truck and his dogs and his shotgun, but try and get him to pay the price for a custom knife. Why h311 no, I can go to Wallyworld and buy three or four knives for that price. Yes you can my friend and good luck with the hunting to!
EDIT:
One of the best things I ever did I have an old hunting buddy who eats, breaths and sleeps, deer hunting. Running with him years ago nearly cost me my marriage, (another story). Anyway I haven't hunted in years, I just can't afford it. So I don't see my buddy as often as I use to. He stopped by the shop one day and was admiring one of my knives. He said now if this was mine I would have you change this and this!
So I call him one day, (hunting season was over) and told him to come by. I made him a knife with the changes he wanted. I told him I am gonna give you this one, and if you need it sharpened drop by from time to time and I'll sharpen it up for you! There is only a couple of things, I want in return.
Every time you pull this out up at the hunting camp I want you tell everyone within earshot how good this knife is, (he is also one of those loud good ole boys).
The other thing do not tell them I gave it too you. Just tell them I gave you a fair deal and they can talk to me about price!
So far that knife has brought me three clients, and only one wanted one similar too it when we got to talking things over!! It opened a dialogue and gave me the opportunity to find out just what each was looking for in a knife and we settled the price up after the discussion, based on what they wanted in a knife!! That was two years ago I gave him that knife. Like I said I am more of a hobbyist and my wife's illness often dictates the pace of that!
When my wife got so sick I sold some of my stuff off and basically quit for a while! I got the urge to do it all again. So at slower pace I set out to build a knife and get what I figured was an honest price for it!! Another thing I did I started building what I wanted to. When I finished it, if you wanted to buy it you were welcome to it!! At a price that I thought was fair. I still think I am under valuing some of my stuff, but I am also still learning as I go!!
I think one of the biggest problems is that a custom knife is not for everyone! When you get the Wallyworld mentality asking prices, ........lets face it you probably ain't gonna sell one to that person! He falls into that category of probably not for everyone or at least him!
I don't have a website or a facebook account. Hopefully after the first of the year I may be able to step up a little more and then we will see!
I had to finally look at this like a business, even though it still is not really a moneymaker for me yet. When I use to do construction, you came to me with the job, mostly because I had a good reputation. You explained what you wanted , I figured it up and gave you a price. You didn't come to me because I had an add giving the lowest price! If you didn't like the price then maybe we could discuss some options. But I didn't give away my time, material and labor, I still had to make a profit!! When I started thinking of knife making like that I begin to enjoy it more!!
I don't do many pre-sales but when I do I get my price or I don't do it. Now I am not ugly to the prospective customer but if we are within walking distance of each other (pardon the pun) then we can probably negotiate! It helps to open a dialogue and explain a bit more about what a custom knife entails, and why I will do my best to make you a happy customer if you decide to go my with me!!
I agree with John on this one. Out front pricing can be your own competition.
Custom knives aren't always as expensive as you might think. Its kind of like a hunter who will spend a fortune on his truck and his dogs and his shotgun, but try and get him to pay the price for a custom knife. Why h311 no, I can go to Wallyworld and buy three or four knives for that price. Yes you can my friend and good luck with the hunting to!
EDIT:
One of the best things I ever did I have an old hunting buddy who eats, breaths and sleeps, deer hunting. Running with him years ago nearly cost me my marriage, (another story). Anyway I haven't hunted in years, I just can't afford it. So I don't see my buddy as often as I use to. He stopped by the shop one day and was admiring one of my knives. He said now if this was mine I would have you change this and this!
So I call him one day, (hunting season was over) and told him to come by. I made him a knife with the changes he wanted. I told him I am gonna give you this one, and if you need it sharpened drop by from time to time and I'll sharpen it up for you! There is only a couple of things, I want in return.
Every time you pull this out up at the hunting camp I want you tell everyone within earshot how good this knife is, (he is also one of those loud good ole boys).
The other thing do not tell them I gave it too you. Just tell them I gave you a fair deal and they can talk to me about price!
So far that knife has brought me three clients, and only one wanted one similar too it when we got to talking things over!! It opened a dialogue and gave me the opportunity to find out just what each was looking for in a knife and we settled the price up after the discussion, based on what they wanted in a knife!! That was two years ago I gave him that knife. Like I said I am more of a hobbyist and my wife's illness often dictates the pace of that!
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Smallshop
KNIFE MAKER
I think John Wilson's use of FB makes perfect sense. You cannot spit out a consistent price on ONE OFF CUSTOM work. Meshing a buyer's dream knife with their budget is a must in that business model. This is also part of knifemaking.
Since I am planning to sell many of the exact same knife with minor options/changes...it is much easier to price and hold to prices.I'm trying to constantly drive time down...yet I want an accurate means of pricing based on a shop rate that is two stage....CNC/hand work. Right now I feel I can sell the little cowboy knife in the $180 zone. I had hoped to be in the $100 zone...lol. TOO MUCH HANDWORK!! As John knows, there are a lot of ways to nail the efficiency thing....and somethings just hafta be what they are.More of that than I had hoped...but I'm okay with it. I remember seeing rows of grinders in the pics Tracy shared of Bark River Knives...and thinking...Oh-oh....lol. In the long run efficiency gains is where you make your increases on income per knife.
So with sheath and blade and handles that would be lower end...as I add options the price would go up. As I see trends which allow me to make more of one style the price may come down. If I do a custom...buy it...don't buy it.
Commission work? Hopefully never...lol.
The most human interaction I have is here on this forum...I plan to keep it that way! One of the benefits of "limited production" is to not have the personal time spent with people figuring out what they need. They like the knife they buy the knife.
I think getting a heirloom quality knife in that price range works.My goal is to get to 100 knives per month. After materials,wages, power, taxes, insurance...I hope to be able to make a living.
That won't happen right away of course...if ever? Won't know till I try!
Back to my original question...Can I post prices openly of my knives? There is no FB policy otherwise?
Since I am planning to sell many of the exact same knife with minor options/changes...it is much easier to price and hold to prices.I'm trying to constantly drive time down...yet I want an accurate means of pricing based on a shop rate that is two stage....CNC/hand work. Right now I feel I can sell the little cowboy knife in the $180 zone. I had hoped to be in the $100 zone...lol. TOO MUCH HANDWORK!! As John knows, there are a lot of ways to nail the efficiency thing....and somethings just hafta be what they are.More of that than I had hoped...but I'm okay with it. I remember seeing rows of grinders in the pics Tracy shared of Bark River Knives...and thinking...Oh-oh....lol. In the long run efficiency gains is where you make your increases on income per knife.
So with sheath and blade and handles that would be lower end...as I add options the price would go up. As I see trends which allow me to make more of one style the price may come down. If I do a custom...buy it...don't buy it.
Commission work? Hopefully never...lol.
The most human interaction I have is here on this forum...I plan to keep it that way! One of the benefits of "limited production" is to not have the personal time spent with people figuring out what they need. They like the knife they buy the knife.
I think getting a heirloom quality knife in that price range works.My goal is to get to 100 knives per month. After materials,wages, power, taxes, insurance...I hope to be able to make a living.
That won't happen right away of course...if ever? Won't know till I try!
Back to my original question...Can I post prices openly of my knives? There is no FB policy otherwise?
That makes sense. When I made my post above I had in mind a knife posted with "for sale" on it. Then I do want to see a price. BUT - with your case of posting a photo of a knife that's already sold, and the possibility of selling more, not showing the price on the "sold" knife makes sense.
Yep, I noticed nobody has answered your question. Looking around on FB, do you find anything else with prices posted? Seems like I have, or maybe that was IG? I'm not at either place much at all so have NO (as in none) real knowledge. What would happen if you just posted price for this knife and see what happens? "IF" it's not permitted, would they not warn you at least once?
C Craft
Well-Known Member
Ted to directly answer your question, I got this from Facebook. My wife has an account!
Facebook's own policy page:
1. Overview
Understanding Our Policies
Products and services sold on Facebook's Commerce Products must comply with our Community Standards as well as the Commerce Policies. Our Commerce Policies provide guidance on what types of products and services can be offered for sale on Facebook. Sellers are also responsible for complying with all applicable laws and regulations. Failure to comply may result in a variety of consequences, including the removal of posted content. If you repeatedly post content that violates Facebook's policies, we may take additional action on your account.
Common Points of Confusion
To help you build a compliant and user-friendly buying and selling experience, we've highlighted some common areas of confusion. Click the links below to learn more about each policy:
Where Our Policies Apply
The Commerce Policies apply to all posts on Marketplace, Buy and Sell Groups, and Shop Sections on Pages.
When you click on the link for #1 this is where it takes you!
5. Weapons, Ammunition or Explosives
Policy
Posts may not promote the sale or use of weapons, ammunition, or explosives.
Examples
Promoting safety training or licenses for legal weapons
Firearms and firearm parts
Paintball guns
BB Guns
Fireworks
Pepper spray
Tasers
Gun ranges
Gun shows
The short answer is they are letting it go by until they get a complaint and then they will shut your account down. That last part is according to some from another knife forum. Someone complained about him and they pulled his account!! I am not sure but I think he had pics of using zombie killer knives and well he just pushed the limit too far in my opinion!!
You know this politically correct world we live in now.
John Wilson
Well-Known Member
That's what I did. I started off with two or three basic designs.
Make 15 knife blanks. Profile them, drill the handle pin holes, then send them off in a batch for heat treat. When someone wants to order a knife, you already have the blade blank made. You select the handle material you want to use and you make the knife. As you go along, you'll add other designs into your offerings.
You can always work on new designs or one-offs between orders, but having a drawer with blanks in it helps in a lot of ways. One big way it helps is it keeps you focused on your own designs instead of taking in a bunch of one-off custom work. It also saves you money (if you don't heat treat yourself) because you get a batch of blades done and only pay shipping once.
Over time you will have a bunch of designs but you'll also know what your big sellers are. Those are the ones you'll make multiples of to have on hand.
John Wilson
Well-Known Member
Facebook has a new thing called "Facebook Marketplace" and it's actually pretty cool. It's like Craigslist, basically, but it runs inside Facebook. There doesn't seem to be a good way to filter what you're looking for though, but then again I'm looking at it on my phone.
I see stuff for sale all the time on facebook with prices posted. I don't think it's a problem. But keep in mind, Facebook is what it is. It is a news feed that is constantly updating. You may post something and nobody on earth sees it. What makes your post keep popping up is when people "like" the post or comment on it. Then it keeps popping up and it pops up on the news feed for people they are friends with. This is a powerful tool, but you have to treat it like a conversation. When people stop interacting with the post, it dies. Facebook's news feed is not at all like using eBay or Amazon or Craigslist. Their new Marketplace may become more useful.
But don't go thinking Facebook is like having a website where people will go looking for your page and then spend time browsing around. Nobody does that. It's good to have photo albums on your page that you can refer people to, but do not think for one moment that people will cruise around looking for your page. That's not how it works at all.
Cazador
Well-Known Member
fwiw - I have a Face Book page for my knives. I can post my knives just fine and people can contact me about them. But if I try to use any of their marketing tools, such as "boost this post", Facebook will not allow it as it violates their policies as mentioned in a previous post.
opaul
Well-Known Member
Exactly. I don't understand that either because after they turn it down for policies, they send you another note to boost your post....crazy.
Ty Adams
KNIFE MAKER
Thanks for posting all of your experience John. I would agree about not posting prices. I like the personal interaction with people. It's like making friends with someone new not just selling a product. Unless you plan on holding those prices for more then a few years. I posted a price once over a year ago... I still have people ask if that's the going price for one of my knives. The answer is no.
opaul
Well-Known Member
Good points all.
Smallshop
KNIFE MAKER
Since this has kind of become a philosophy of business thread (good stuff too) I want to say to any newer guys planning on selling knives....
DO NOT FOLLOW TED'S MODEL...lol.
I may have some good ideas but am very different in goals than a custom maker. I'm trying to make limited production knives with the goal of making the best production knife available. You have to set a goal/target and strive to hit it.
If I were going to make custom commissioned knives...ESPECIALLY if I were newer to knifemaking (10yrs and under...lol) I would hide my prices like a bluejay does a peanut in the grass...
here's why...material costs are constantly going up...the custom maker often cannot justify the expense of bulk buying to cut costs. The skill level of your product is constantly improving...who wants to be trapped in a price bracket that does not accurately reflect the level of craftsmanship YOU HAVE WORKED HARD at achieving? You need to have the freedom to sell your art for what it is...not a preconceived number someone got stuck in their head.
" Ummmm...mr. DaVinci...Can I call you Leo?...I want to commission you to paint my cousin...Mona Lisa...now, a friend of mine bought a street sketch from you last year for two florins...you sketched it while he was waiting next to the sausage stand....will that be the cost of the Mona Lisa I want you to do?....GASP....REALLY??? Well...okay you are the artist I want to do this work...."
If you are making one of something you are an ARTIST (Dictionary.com: a person whose work exhibits exceptional skill.)....making multiples of something makes you an ARTISAN (Dictionary.com: a person or company that makes a high-quality or distinctive product in small quantities, usually by hand or using traditional methods)....
So I kind of switch gears...when I am making a custom...like my skinning knife...I am functioning as an ARTIST. Striving to make multiples I am functioning as an ARTISAN. Any famous design house had periods where their designs were created by a specific ARTIST...and the production of their product was carried out by ARTISANS...trained people who could do the work in an acceptable fashion under the scrutiny of the ARTIST.
I have seen custom knife makers allow production companies to carry one or so of their designs....usually the hand-off is clumsy and not really indicative of the makers work.
I am determined to not let that happen as the "artist" and the "artisans" live under the same roof here.
For all of you making single works of art...make sure you think of yourself as an artist. I can take any knife you make and probably find a $30 Dexter-Russel that will perform almost as well...who wants one of those pieces of junk? Human beings are hard wired for beauty! When someones art appeals to them...they want that ART!! look how many different styles of knifemaking there are! Some are so fine in detail and finish and others have a rough beauty to them and ALL reflect the spirit of the maker, right??
All this to say...I have analyzed the difference between artist and artisan and many of my questions on this forum are a slight shift from what most would do business-wise. I don't want any of my commie-production leanings to sully the method a newer artist might use to showcase their art! Lol.
John Wilson and Ty Adams would be the correct journeymen makers to follow business-wise for a new custom maker. I think Ed Caffrey does an amazing job of promoting his work...Confidence based on experience and never over the top. Always easy to approach and generous with his advice/technique.
I have looked at so many knife websites that they are a blur...so by "over the top" I mean..."Do you love knifemaking? Or is feeding your ego your goal...? Be careful...you can start in one place and end up in another...it is a fine line...lol
Okay...coffees wearin' off...gotta go...
DO NOT FOLLOW TED'S MODEL...lol.
I may have some good ideas but am very different in goals than a custom maker. I'm trying to make limited production knives with the goal of making the best production knife available. You have to set a goal/target and strive to hit it.
If I were going to make custom commissioned knives...ESPECIALLY if I were newer to knifemaking (10yrs and under...lol) I would hide my prices like a bluejay does a peanut in the grass...
here's why...material costs are constantly going up...the custom maker often cannot justify the expense of bulk buying to cut costs. The skill level of your product is constantly improving...who wants to be trapped in a price bracket that does not accurately reflect the level of craftsmanship YOU HAVE WORKED HARD at achieving? You need to have the freedom to sell your art for what it is...not a preconceived number someone got stuck in their head.
" Ummmm...mr. DaVinci...Can I call you Leo?...I want to commission you to paint my cousin...Mona Lisa...now, a friend of mine bought a street sketch from you last year for two florins...you sketched it while he was waiting next to the sausage stand....will that be the cost of the Mona Lisa I want you to do?....GASP....REALLY??? Well...okay you are the artist I want to do this work...."
If you are making one of something you are an ARTIST (Dictionary.com: a person whose work exhibits exceptional skill.)....making multiples of something makes you an ARTISAN (Dictionary.com: a person or company that makes a high-quality or distinctive product in small quantities, usually by hand or using traditional methods)....
So I kind of switch gears...when I am making a custom...like my skinning knife...I am functioning as an ARTIST. Striving to make multiples I am functioning as an ARTISAN. Any famous design house had periods where their designs were created by a specific ARTIST...and the production of their product was carried out by ARTISANS...trained people who could do the work in an acceptable fashion under the scrutiny of the ARTIST.
I have seen custom knife makers allow production companies to carry one or so of their designs....usually the hand-off is clumsy and not really indicative of the makers work.
I am determined to not let that happen as the "artist" and the "artisans" live under the same roof here.
For all of you making single works of art...make sure you think of yourself as an artist. I can take any knife you make and probably find a $30 Dexter-Russel that will perform almost as well...who wants one of those pieces of junk? Human beings are hard wired for beauty! When someones art appeals to them...they want that ART!! look how many different styles of knifemaking there are! Some are so fine in detail and finish and others have a rough beauty to them and ALL reflect the spirit of the maker, right??
All this to say...I have analyzed the difference between artist and artisan and many of my questions on this forum are a slight shift from what most would do business-wise. I don't want any of my commie-production leanings to sully the method a newer artist might use to showcase their art! Lol.
John Wilson and Ty Adams would be the correct journeymen makers to follow business-wise for a new custom maker. I think Ed Caffrey does an amazing job of promoting his work...Confidence based on experience and never over the top. Always easy to approach and generous with his advice/technique.
I have looked at so many knife websites that they are a blur...so by "over the top" I mean..."Do you love knifemaking? Or is feeding your ego your goal...? Be careful...you can start in one place and end up in another...it is a fine line...lol
Okay...coffees wearin' off...gotta go...