Looking for some advice.

Wiredude

Well-Known Member
I'm hoping to actually break down and order some real blade steel here soon. I'd like to do a few smaller EDC/utility style knives, as well as maybe a hunter or 2 in say the 4-5" range.
I've got a couple of questions though, particularly more along the EDC lines. I've never carried a fixxed blade, so what sort of things should I be considering in design? As for blade shape, I want something that will handle a fair amount of abuse, was thinking perhaps a tanto varient (though no hollow grind), or perhaps a kind of spear/wharncliff hybrid (think kind of reverse of a drop point). Any thoughts on those ideas?
Also, as to steel selection, something like a simple 1084? Or might I be better served to go to a stainless, or something else? I was thinking 1/8" stock as well.

I know there are a lot of questions all wrapped up in that, but any input/advice is appreciated.
 
I think the steel choice is a good one but all depends on if you are going to heat treat it your self or if you are sending out? If your sending out you have more options but to start out doing heat treat yourself stick with 1084. The thickness is good 1/8" is plenty thick for most edc task.
As far as design, thats personal preference, what type of knife so you carry now look at that and imitate it.
JP

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...I'd like to do a few smaller EDC/utility style knives, as well as maybe a hunter or 2 in say the 4-5" range.
...

I want something that will handle a fair amount of abuse...

What type of 'abuse' are you expecting edc knives and small hunters to handle?

Steel type is going to be largely dependent on what you want the final outcome of your blades to be. What is the most important task for the knife? What is the second most important task? If corrosion resistance is priority number one, stainless is the best choice but if you have limited equipment and/or limited experience, heat treating is going to be an issue and will likely have to be sent out to a professional.

If the knife is something you want to try to heat treat yourself and a good combination of toughness/edge retention is the goal, 1084 is an excellent choice.

Heat treating and blade geometry, especially edge geometry are the two determining factors in how much 'abuse' a knife will take. Blade shape has very little to do with it.

If you're fairly new to knifemaking and trying to learn the ropes, which is what I'm guessing from this post, I'd stick with the 1/8" 1084 and make a few nice and basic drop point knives. They are practical, functional and handy. Focus on the very basics....good flow and nice proportions with profiles pleasing to the eye. Make every curve and line look like you did it deliberately and not like you 'did something because you didn't know what else to do'. Focus on nice even grinds and simple aesthetics and symmetry. Get your blade and handle finish down pat. Think about things like pleasing material combinations and even pin placement in the scales that has some rhyme and reason. Think about the whole knife start to finish in your head before you start. Mentally think through every step you can think of and decide ahead of time, "How am I going to do that?" Make a drawing and don't start working the steel until you have the proportions, lines and curves that look right to your eye. Don't make weird, tight little corners and funny angles that are going to be hard to finish out. Keep the first ones simple and clean.

These are really simple things that are often overlooked by a lot of makers, especially new makers. Then they try to move on to something much more complicated before they have the basics mastered. Don't do that. Ask questions here and post pictures. There are lots of good makers on here and a bunch of folks willing to help out.

Best of luck!
 
John gave you some very good advice. Let me add that in building knives you are making a series of trade-offs; there's no way around it. If you choose a stainless steel because of it's corrosion resistance then you are going to have a more brittle blade, as compared to a carbon steel blade with the same dimensions. Also, as John said, match the steel that you use to the equipment that you have to heat treat with or send it out for heat treating. Something simple like 1080, 1084, 80CrV2 are relatively easy to heat treat in a gas forge and a kitchen oven. Some of your more complicated carbon alloys and probably all your stainless steels are going to need a regulated high temperature oven possibly to do both the hardening and the tempering because some alloys require a higher temperature to temper than many or most kitchen ovens will go to. Just be aware that it's easier to find someone who will heat treat an air quenching steel than will heat treat an oil quenching steel.

As far as knife shapes go let me say that I look with a jaundiced eye on the "tanto" style blade. The point of the blade with the two straight(ish) lines meeting were seldom, if ever, put on a tanto. That shape is a sword point and it's not armor piercing it's a secondary cutting edge designed to follow the arc of the end of the sword. A straight spined or drop point blade is much more practical for an EDC or hunting knife.

Doug
 
Wiredude,
I wonder if powder coating would be an okay alternative to stainless.

The reason I ask is I've been throwing around the idea of powder-coating some knives made out of coil spring steel (when I make them). Any thoughts out there as to how well this'll help the corrosion issue? And what it takes to get set up for that? The commercial knives I've owned with a powder coat don't scratch that easy and the finish looks real nice.

Luke
 
All the knife shaped objects I've made so far have been in the category you describe (EDC, small hunter), and I would simply agree with what has been said - keep it simple in design, 1/8" 1084 is perfect. As for powder coating, I wouldn't bother just yet - look up forced patina, how people managed to protect their steel for a millennia before we invented aerosol. You probably already have all you need to force a patina, or etch. Take a look at bushcraft designs from Bark River, Essee, and the fine makers on here. You will not find much in the way of a tanto due to the two brittle corners, and the style of grind involved.

Just from my experience as a novice maker: I made a wharny, had a hard time getting the curve down to the blade just right. Turned out to be harder than it looks, and it doesn't cut all that well honestly. I've made no drop points, all belly, flat spine - likewise, it just didn't work out, and doesn't cut as hoped. The best one I made as far as usefulness goes (not necessarily finish) turned out to be the one I made for my wife, with a drop point and a swedge. Not too much belly, the point is just right for starting an incision, the geometry just works. My experience has led me to forget about harsh angles, radical curves, or too much flair ... and focus on the cutting edge and the comfort of the handle. If you're going to use it for EDC and hunting, it doesn't matter how good it looks if it doesn't cut and it hurts to use.
 
Thanks for the replies folks. It's been exactly the type of feedback I was hoping for.
Definitely some things learned, and food for thought brought up.
To kind of reply to a couple things, though in no particular order...
As for the 'abuse' I expect an EDC blade to handle, well, generally speaking, a good amount of cutting tape, cardboard, bags, and assorted other packing materials, sometimes cutting zip-ties, etc. I also have a tendancy to use a blade for some light prying, or separating. At work we use alot of adhesive backed plastic tags, and they sometimes need popped off the panel they're stuck too and repositioned, which I've gound to be an incredibly effective way to stab yourself with a screwdriver, though I have yet to have a blade slip...
I guess it's probably not really abuse of a knife like some would think, but I had a drop point Gerber that didn't take it at all, so maybe that made me a little cautious or something.
As for heat treating and equipment, yeah, I'm a total beginner. I do have a (char)coal forge, and a good variety of general tools, though no belt grinder as of yet, but I did build myself a file jig, so at least I'm not trying to freehand the bevels with a file.
I could say alot more, but I'm probably getting rambly, so I'll say Thank You again, and go work on some designs or something.
 
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