I had no idea we were at such a messed up time in "knifemaking"!

EdCaffreyMS

Forum Owner - Moderator
#1
Maybe I'm slow, but recently I am astounded at all the pure crap that is being put out there on the markets as "custom knives"! I received an email from an individual who had purchase his first "custom" knife and in his words.... "It simply will not cut anything, and you cannot sharpen it!" After the individual asked me what to do, my reply was to return the knife for a refund. He also gave me the name of the company (a private outfit) that sold him the knife. I visited the website, and found this.....
"We begin with tough A36 Steel, which we forge and grind. The blade is then sent for a state of the art heat treatment which, over a period of twelve hours, produces a deep layer of high carbon tool steel that forms an incredible cutting edge while retaining extreme core toughness."

Are you freaking kidding me!?! A36? OMG! :rolleyes: And we wonder why people balk at the prices we put on our knives....because there are knuckleheads out there using A36 for blades, and charging $150 for them! I think we're just beginning to see the damage that Forged in Fire is gona do to the custom knife world.

I suspect when/if I hear back from him, he's gona say that the "company" refused to refund him, or has a no returns policy.

Now, more than ever, is the time when any reputable/legit custom knifemaker needs to be educating the public!
 
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#2
Wait......is this a late April Fool's prank Ed? Isn't A36 just a low carbon structural steel?

I hate seeing someone part ways with hard earned cash in trade for a non performing product.

Also, it seems crazy as a maker to even spend time creating "knife shaped objects" out of A36 when good ol' 1084 isn't that dang expensive!!
 

ARCustomKnives

Well-Known Member
#3
I found the company you're referring to. Apparently these "blades" compare to "samurai swords" and can still cut after being bent 90 degrees!????

Sounds like he's just giving the steel a small layer of case hardening, which done correctly can impart some moderate hardness to the steel, though I'm guessing if he can still bend the steel at 90, it's a very shallow case hardening, and i really wouldn't expect the edge to last very long, especially after a few sharpenings.
 

EdCaffreyMS

Forum Owner - Moderator
#5
It's no joke! It's a tough thing to have to tell someone that their "custom knife" is total junk! I feel bad for the guy, and hope he can get his money back....but I doubt that's gona happen.

a small layer of case hardening
"small" being the operative word! I've done case hardening jobs over the years, and know from experience that 12 hours will get you approx. .002-.004" depth of case hardening on 1018. With A36, and the rag-tag array of of materials it contains, there's simply ZERO control of any hardness level/depth. I suppose some would say "who cares"...... but it's hacks like this that give ANY knifemaker(s) a bad rap in the public's' eye.
 

opaul

Well-Known Member
#6
I've read differences of opinions on those knives. I wouldn't personally purchase one. The fellow that started these series of knives was a survivalist instructor and either designed or had someone to design and make the knives. I've visited their website before this post and it appears they have brisk sells as several models were sold out.
 

bladegrinder

Well-Known Member
#8
I like forged in fire but...Ha ha, everytime I watch it I can't help but think of someone sitting in their lazy boy next to a big bag of cheetoes, a beer in one hand and a cigarette in the other thinking to themselves....hell, they can do it, I'm going out in the garage tomorrow and become a knifemaker....damn it! I should make a fortune..Ha ha.
 

KenH

Well-Known Member
#9
Somebody PM me the website - I looked and didn't find it.

Hard to imagine anybody using A36 for a knife when 1070/1080 steel isn't that much more expensive.
but it's hacks like this that give ANY knifemaker(s) a bad rap in the public's' eye.
Ed, just think of it this way, once somebody puts one of your knives along size one of those knives they'll know you for the "Master" of knifemaking world {g}
 

C Craft

Well-Known Member
#11
Wasn't hard to find the site, just Google the first line of their spiel! "We begin with tough A36 Steel, which we forge and grind"

You know I watch FIF occasionally but it is because there is nothing much to watch. However when I do watch FIF I do it because I am tired of the the reruns of Gunsmoke.

I cringe everytime I hear some of the BS that is getting out to the public. The young ones out there that really may want to know how to knife making the right way. What they fail to understand is that it is a TV show and mostly for entertainment only!!! That is not to take away from the guys who have been on the show. Originally I thought the show was good, as even though it was for entertainment it was drawing new interest in the craft! However in their effort to make it entertaining TV they have left out soooooooo much and created so many misconceptions!! Without someone who truly knows their are too many newbies that want to make Damascus first time out of the shoot. They believe they can make this from cannon balls and buggy springs!!! They have no idea how many failures went by the way in the quest to actually figure how to make the first one that came out right!!

However it is only going to get worse, there is a new show on the horizon. Touted to be from the producers of FIF, something about surviving with your knife. I saw the promo for it the other night and all I could do is too shake my head. This one is gonna make everybody think we are all making a bunch of crazy people by making and selling knives!

Of course I am the odd ball! I was the one that found the book that everyone suggested to me to be, all I needed to know when it comes to knife making, a boat load of ............!!! Shortly from the first few pages my BS meter began to climb and by the time I hit the last page. I felt like I had been violated!! Damn I actually paid good money for this!!

The kind of people marketing the crapola on that site, but hey they are making money and they are killing a lot of future sales for others.

EDIT: By the way if my comments made you mad well,............just take into consideration my nerve pain in my feet and legs is killin me tonight! Guess it could be the weather or could be someone poking me with a stick. Gets about the same result. To my friend with the stick,............. Good evening!
 
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EdCaffreyMS

Forum Owner - Moderator
#13
All I can do is agree with the "snake oil" comment...... I guess PT Barnum was correct about "a sucker is born every minute"..... it just riles me when people do what I view as blatant dishonesty in the name of making a buck, and in the process cast doubt and dispersion on the entire knifemaking world. I have a feeling that this year's Blade Show is gona be filled with so much mire that I'm gona need to take my Muck Boots along to wade through all of it.

Oh the good ol days....when the worst I had to worry about was "Who chrome plates your blades?" or "Who makes your blades? Your handles?" :)

I'm hoping I hear back from the individual, and hoping he's able to get a return/refund.
 

John Wilson

Well-Known Member
#14
I just found the site. They put a lot of money into the website from the looks of it, which would give potential customers the feeling that they are dealing with a professional company. Then I looked at the knives for sale, and every one of them belongs in the thread "My First Knife."

What's crazy to me is that there is a picture for a leather sheath, and the picture they chose to represent their leatherwork has a busted thread. That's the one they chose to represent them? Is that normal? Nobody fixed the stitching? Then I looked at the knives and realized that the leatherwork probably looks just fine to them.

They do have a beautiful website, though. I'll give them that.
 
#17
The timing of this thread...lol.

Have a few teens at my church that know I'm making knives...they give me routine advise(in rotation...though the "master sword maker" of the group has not schooled me lately cause HE's away at school...lol))...more routine than I care for...They don't know that this ol' duffer has YouTube also....snerk. You know...he's old and probably doesn't understand the interwebs...

Today:

"Mr Hauser...do you know what you should make your next blade out of..."

"Yes....A2...." (cause I got lots of it....lol)

"No....TIMASCUS...it's super cool..."

"Welllll...it would be terrible blade material...."

"Really??!!" Puzzled look "It's TITANIUM!!" (Authoritative tone).....whips out his phone to show me a Timascus photo....

"Nice...that is a beautiful RING...works great for jewelry and guards, etc....cause you don't cut anything with them...."

"Hmmmm...." walks away unable to teach the old dolt anything new....

Time to yank the phones....
 
#18
Now, more than ever, is the time when any reputable/legit custom knifemaker needs to be educating the public!

Good luck....about 30 years ago the MFG industry talking heads coined the phrase "CNC billet machined" over time it got shortened to "billet"...you know...It's BILLET...over time I gave up trying to explain that almost everything machined on a cnc machine was billet first as coming from a foundry...whether steel or aluminum...no special magic there...yes..."billet" had become synonymous with aerospace aluminum that had been machined in a CNC machine. I gave up....

The bull crap artists in any trade can seem to talk faster and be more animated than those of us laboring to truly master said trade...Therefore they become the "go to" guys for the hyperactive-techno-junkies in need of their next sound blurb fix....

Time is, however, on our side...after painful experiences with the fast talking experts, some DO come to their senses and realize who the good guys are...

My feet are hurting today also Cliff...LOL!
 
#19
What kills me is I read this and stress about the knives I make and are they good enough to sell!! And then I'm afraid to charge what there worth!!
Excellent....you're on the right path!! After three years I have not sold a knife yet...but I am very close.LOL!! You only get one shot at a "good" reputation....and your knives look better each time you post.
 
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