help me spend some Money

RodneyJ

Well-Known Member
I have a little extra money I can spend
My options are I'm building a NWG I have the money to set it up with a motor and VFD or I can go with a motor with step pulley and a sugar creek heat treat oven. Currently I'm heat treating what I can in a one brick forge and the rest I'm sending out
I think both would be a good option. I'm currently leaning toward a set up with the step pully and heat treat oven however I have read a lot of comments from guys stating that they would not have another grinder without a VFD.
please let me hear yalls ideas
Thanks Rodney
 
I vote for cheap whiskey and wild women:biggrin::biggrin:
If that won't work then I would go with the step pulleys and the kiln.I still run step pulleys on my KMG and wouldn't trade my kiln for anything.
Stan
 
Andrew I was thinking I would go with the setup that Wayne Coe sells I think the motor and VFD will run some were between $650 -700 if I did the math right. If I go with the motor with step pulley and a kiln I will end up spending a few more dollars but will solve two problems at once

Stan cheap women and wild whiskey may not set well with the wife but I like your other vote. Any chance a new maker from Houston could come to Waller and hang out with an experienced maker for a few hours.

Thanks Rodney
 
Like you said, either option is a good choice.

Myself, I would take the step pulleys with the HT oven.
 
I guess my answer would depend on what type of blades you plan on heat treating...

You MAY need foil, but you may also need a good HT oil like parks 50. That's another 140 bucks give or take. If your doing stainless, you'll need foil and quench plates. You might also need a seperate oven to temper. Maybe some HT racks, etc...

In the long run, you'll save money (depending on how many blades you make and if you HT for other makers), but the benefits of the VFD will be instantaneous. Personally, I built my own oven and still use a 3 step.

I don't think I'd trade my oven for a VFD, but a VFD sure would be nice.

I'll bet none of that really helps you with your decision... hahah
 
I can work around the tongs, I have 5 gallons of a commercial grade ht oil. Currently the company I'm using for ht does not test for RC hardness. I work with mostly 1084 and D2. The 1084 I heat treat my self and test with a file. The D2 I have been sending out and check with I file when I get it back. I may look for a place locally that can do RC testing for me however I don't see laying down the money for a tester in my near future. I don't think the foil will kill my budget. I guess I'm wondering how much a VFD will help me out. The little grinder I'm using now is 3600 rpm I will be going with a 1800 rpm motor on my NWG. Just wanting to make an informed decision as I only get to spend it once. Thanks for the replies so far
 
I guess I'm wondering how much a VFD will help me out. The little grinder I'm using now is 3600 rpm I will be going with a 1800 rpm motor on my NWG. Just wanting to make an informed decision as I only get to spend it once. Thanks for the replies so far

Several people praise the VFD for its ability to dial from very slow to very fast and have any speed in between.
While that is a wonderful feature, let's not forget that entire civilizations have been built using step pulley technology. Look at any older piece of machinery that has a need for variable speed. Lathes, mills, drill presses, etc.
The overwhelming majority of newly-manufactured machinery still uses pulley reduction, albeit sometimes even in combination with a VFD.

To me, the shining attribute of a VFD is not the "ramping" ability to have any speed between minimum to maximum, but rather the ease and quickness of changing from one speed to the next; all you have to do is twist a dial to change speed.

If you feel you want more speed options out of a sheave system, go with a 4-step instead of 3-step. http://www.usaknifemaker.com/pulleysheave-4step-5-4-3-2-diameter-58-or-12-bore-p-868.html


Or how's this for an example of the effectiveness of "old" technology:
Many years ago I constructed a station in a corner of my finishing shop. This station was primarily used for buffing, but we also had the ability to mount grinding wheels. In addition, one of the most important attributes was the ability to connect, via threaded chuck, a flexshaft. We even used it as a turning station, much in lathe fashion, to turn large diameter wooden wheels.
So the need for variable speed was very important.
I no longer have that shop, but I still have that work station. This station uses a 1725 RPM motor, and has a 3-step sheave arrangement from the motor to a countershaft, then a 5-step arrangement from the countershaft to the final drive.
Theoretically, that's 15 possible final RPM combinations, from a measly 245 RPM to over 12,000 RPM. But I never use the top three speeds, simply due to the fact that I do care about bearing life. So I have twelve possible speed combinations from 245 to 3697 RPM.
In over 15 years, the only maintenance done to this machine has been oiling the bearings and replacing the belts. I did have to replace the final drive bearings once (that's what quickly clued me in about the top speeds).


So you have pros/cons with each method.

With the VFD, you have a direct drive system, so you have no concern over maintenance of belts, sheaves, and bearings. You also have the ability to "dial in" an exact speed, and speed changes are virtually instantaneous.
But the glaring factor is always upfront cost.

With pulleys (technically, sheaves), your speeds are limited to the amount of steps you have, and changing speeds requires relocation of the belt.
But I'm not so sure that "infinite adjustability" is all that important, and belt relocation is very quickly done if you use a twist-link belt. Also, many people hinge the motor. Whichever quick-change method you use, it takes me all of 5 seconds or less to move the belt.
Yes, using sheaves introduces mechanical wear. But if properly designed and constructed, it is of very little concern. Extra belts and bearings take up very little room on the shelf, and also cost very little, comparatively speaking. Truth be told, only those who use their equipment constantly will even have anything to worry about.
Which introduces another point- how simple is it to get the machine back into service if/when something breaks down? Are you going to be able to easily find out exactly what is wrong? And how much will the replacement part(s) cost?


Please don't take this as me having anything against VFD setups, because I don't. Matter-of-fact, I'm wanting one for a disc grinder project coming up in the near future.

But you said you wanted an informed decision, so I hope I presented both sides of the story, while avoiding all the hype.

Good Luck,
Rob
 
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Rodney,I am working with pullies,but I have had a chance to use VFD,and although VFD would
be nice,if I had to make a choice I would go with the oven.

God bless,Keith
 
Please don't take this as me having anything against VFD setups, because I don't. Matter-of-fact, I'm wanting one for a disc grinder project coming up in the near future.

But you said you wanted an informed decision, so I hope I presented both sides of the story, while avoiding all the hype.

Good Luck,
Rob

Rob, I was having the same issue with deciding on a motor setup and luckily Rodney asked a few minutes before me and thus saving me all of that typing. I'd like to thank you for a well thought out post as it is exactly what I was looking for. After reading this, I've hopped off the fence and decided on a Sheave setup. Thanks.

Regards,
Mike
 
Soon I will have my DVD available. You might want to hold off until it is out. With the instructions you can go to your scrap yard and get everything for the frame, then all you need is the wheels, motor and vfd, and a hand full of bolts and knobs.
 
Thanks to all for the input and well thought out advice, It makes it easy to decide when you can draw off of the experiance and knowledge of folks we have here thanks again
God Bless
Rodney

Ps. Stan I hope to be giving you a holler before long thanks
 
Well I had a slight change in my plan I was figuring up the parts I will have to purchase to complete my grinder build and realized I was not that far off the price of a KMG so I bit the bullet and ordered a KMG. Guess ill have to wait a bit longer for the heat treat oven
 
I'm thinking the same as most - step pulleys and a kiln. It's true about the extras for heat treating but you can get started with the kiln and a small amount of foil. Add later. Plates will give you a cleaner blade easier to clean up. Test equipment is nice, but if you keep everything consistent, the kiln will give you very repeatable results - so if you get one one tested and do everything the same, you should be good to go. 16" needlenose pliers work pretty good as tongs. You can work a $5 soft fire brick into a blade rack. Someday, when you want to experiment, you can get a hardness tester and blaze your own paths.

As for the wild women and whiskey - you married a great woman. Pour her a shot and appreciate her. :)

Rob!

OOps! Your KMG post came in while I was typing. Pour her two shots - and still get the kiln. :)
 
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Well Rod Im like you in a way. I am only using a kng and a singlr speed pulley and not even steo pulleys so your ahead of me . I do have a new vfd and 2hp motor but dont want to spend the 500 to hook it up . I know you will grind blades with a higher quality using a vfd because it helps maintain the controll for precision pievces.It also allows the blade to not get over heated after H/T
 
I have had a kmg with pulleys for two and a half years. I do 95% of my grinding on the highest speed. I find that most speed changes are needed when a different grit belt or different attachment are needed too, so you are turning the grinder off for that anyway so to switch the belt on the pulleys takes about three seconds. I have a 3hp VFD mounted near my KMG that has a female plug wired in. I use this VFD to run my surface grinder. All I have to do is buy a motor (3hp, three phase, on Ebay for 199 shipped) and wire it up to have an additional horse power and variable speed and I still have not bothered for months becuase my current setup is working just fine for me...
 
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