Frustration = Discovery!

EdCaffreyMS

EdCaffreyMS

"The Montana Bladesmith"
I've been working on a 4 knife order, These are relativity simple knives, but one is exceptionally wide from edge to spine. This week I've been working on finish grinding, and hand finishing them, but once I got to the "wide" blade, it was just sheer frustration.

It seemed as if I was hand sanding forever, and not getting anywhere.

So, I started thinking back to when I had tried a small vibrating (1/4 sheet) electric sander. I pulled it out of a cabinet, clipped a new chunk of 600 grit into place and tried it. Shreds of sandpaper went everywhere, and I took a huge chunk out of the backing pad....more frustration. :mad:

Then I got to thinking about my disc sander....so I tore the vibrating sander down, taking off the rest of the rubber pad, and then pulling the screws and removing the metal backing plate. Then, using the metal backing plate I had removed as a template, I cut and fit a 1/8" piece of G10 to replace the metal backing plate. I scuffed up the G10 with 220 grit paper, cleaned it with acetone, and gave it a good spray with 3M-77, and applied a piece the same cork gasket material that I use on my disc grinder.

I then gave it shot of Duro spray glue, put on a new piece of 600 and tried it on that blade that was giving me fits.......WAHOOO!!! I now have a new tool for "hand" finishing!!:mod: After only about 2 mins per side with the 600, I jumped to 1200 grit, worked it over, and then in less than 3 mins per side, went back to 600 by hand, and quickly cleaned up all the tiny 1200 grit fish hooks on BOTH sides. (it took less than 5 mins total to clean up BOTH side by hand)

The reason I got so hyped is that many of us have tried to use these little vibratory finish sanders before, and not had much success...with the modifications I made, it now works like a charm for blade finishing! Which sander is it? Well, it's the $29.97 Ryobi from Home Depot: http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xhf/R-100599174/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

Since I used 1/8" G10 to replace the factory metal backing plate, I of course had to drill and counterbore for the 6 screws that hold the plate in place on the sander. But because of the thin G10, I had to wind up lightly grinding the heads of the screws so they did not protrude above the surface....I think if I do it again, I would try to use a bit thicker G10.
But for now it's working great, and I was so cranked about it, that I had to call Steve Kelly and tell him about it.....and Steve mentioned he had one of the "mouse" sanders that he was gona rework in the same manner.....now there is another idea! I might just have to buy another "toy" and try it.

I just wanted to share this "discovery" with everyone...hopefully it will help make your "finishing" chores easier.
 
I've used one unmodified still with a soft backing for cleaning up a couple of convex bevels - worked well.

I had one stripped down ready to have a slab of tufnol stuck on but someone had a clear up and threw it out, thinking it was bust!
 
Hello Ed. It sounds like it's another useful tool !!! What thickness of cork are you using, please. Thanks Frank
 
Thanks Ed,I have a Black N Decker that I got just for that,
but as you said,not much success.I will be giving this a try.


God bless,Keith
 
Funny I did almost the same thing a while back.

I used .125" micarta and covered it with some leather so that it would give just a bit. It works really well. I just finished a knife that's almost 3" from edge to spine and the palm sander really did the trick.
 
For me, the reason it never worked in the past was because the backing plate and the rubber pad were just to "flimsy". With G10 or Micarta to replace the backing plate, it stiffens things up, and the cork gasket material allows for just enough "give".

Frank: The material I use for backing is the same that I put on my disc grinder... it's 1/16" rubber/cork gasket material made by Fel-Pro. I get it at NAPA auto parts stores. Locally it's $6.99 for a roll that is large enough to cover two 8 7/8" discs on the machine, a couple of inches of the roll left over.
The last time I was at Jim Clow's he walked into one of the auto parts stores in Tilley, AB, and they had bunches of it.

In addition to replacing the backing plate and using the THIN cork for padding, I think it's important to note that I don't use the "clips" for holding the paper in place...I glue the paper directly onto the cork just as I do with the disc grinder....otherwise there is just too much play in the paper, and it turns to shreds very quickly.
 
Polyolefin backing

Thanks for the great idea I have a sander like the on in the picture with the vacuum bag would you drill holes in the backing plat or just leave it flat also I have some 1/4 Polyolefin it's what cutting boards are made from how do you think this would work it's a little softer than G10. I have also tried using the sander on blades but your right the backing plate is to soft. I think the soft backing plate works great on scales.
 
Ed, how about some pics of the guts of the beast and some action shots?
useless1 :D

I once had a karate instructor say some people learn by instruction or watching and some learn only by doing! Me I am somewhere in between! :eek:

I want to be sure I am fully understanding how you did this retro fit on the sander. I have tried the vibratory sander before and pretty much had the results that you were originally talking about. Shredding the paper and backing.

One other question. Do you mount the sander and bring the knife to it or are you using the sander in the same way you would say on a piece of wood?
 
EdCaffreyMS said:
For me, the reason it never worked in the past was because the backing plate and the rubber pad were just to "flimsy". With G10 or Micarta to replace the backing plate, it stiffens things up, and the cork gasket material allows for just enough "give".

Frank: The material I use for backing is the same that I put on my disc grinder... it's 1/16" rubber/cork gasket material made by Fel-Pro. I get it at NAPA auto parts stores. Locally it's $6.99 for a roll that is large enough to cover two 8 7/8" discs on the machine, a couple of inches of the roll left over.
The last time I was at Jim Clow's he walked into one of the auto parts stores in Tilley, AB, and they had bunches of it.

In addition to replacing the backing plate and using the THIN cork for padding, I think it's important to note that I don't use the "clips" for holding the paper in place...I glue the paper directly onto the cork just as I do with the disc grinder....otherwise there is just too much play in the paper, and it turns to shreds very quickly.
Click to expand...

That sounds like a great idea! It just so happens that we have a HF one that I may have to modify... My dad barely uses that one anyways ;) (he has a mouse sander for most pieces)

Thanks for posting this! Can you post a pic or two of the unit, and the piece you sanded with it? I am worried about getting swirls like no other.
 
I didn't think to take pics of drilling/counterboring to fit the G10 to to the sander....and I'm not gona tear the cork backing off, now that it's on there with 3m-77 glue! (Don't want to waste the backing...and once the 77 sets, it's a bear to get thing apart)

Here are a couple of pics that are labeled and should give you the idea:

convertedpalmsander1.jpg


convertedpalmsander2.jpg


I would recommend mounting the knife and bringing the sander to it...using the sander as you normally would....you could try the other way, but I think it would be a real rodeo!

Your gona get the swirl marks if you use this method...but you just have to re-think things, and change how you do it. I usually stop hand finishing at 600, then etch most blades. In this instance, using the palm sander, I went from 600, to 1200 to get the swirls as fine as I could, then once I was done with the palm sander, I went back over the blade with 600 by hand....it was very easy to remove the 1200 grit swirls with 600...and it was quick!

I tried to get a pic of the finished blade, but it's just not working in the shop lights...you'll just have to take my word on this one! :) It works.
 
How is this better or different than your disc sander, when would you use this over the disc and visa versa ?
 
Very nice little machine :D. I have to test this. Dont the bevels get convex with the cork.

Seved
 
I'd thought about the magnet thing (like the disc grinder) but I don't think it would work....you'd have to have a pretty thick plate on there to embed the magnets, which in turn would make the lower end fairly heavy....I suspect you would wind up burning out the little sander motor in short order.

How is this better or different than your disc sander, when would you use this over the disc and visa versa ?
Click to expand...

Not sure if the word "better" is appropriate. As for the difference, it's simply another avenue, that saves labor for detailed finishing tasks. Each area of finishing/detailing has it's own aspects...this just allows the area of "hand finishing" to be a little less labor intensive. I still do the final finish/clean up by hand (after I've finished with the palm sander), but the modification on this sander allows me to get there more quickly, while at the same time allowing me to achieve a higher level of finish with less labor.

Dont the bevels get convex with the cork.
Click to expand...

That's where this setup being "stiffer" pays off, and why I specified the exact type of cork I use. The cork is a mixture of ground cork and rubber, in sheet form. It's intended use is as a gasket material, therefore it's very dense and much "stiffer' than standard cork. It does give slightly, but is hard enough that it doesn't give too much. I'm sure that if you roll/tilt the sander around, and don't pay close attention to what your doing, it could certainly round off edges and corners. As far as convexing a bevel, you'd have to be using some heavy grit paper and working it really hard to make that happen. As with anything, it may take a little experimenting and practice to get to work as you'd like......but for me it's working REAL GOOD!:)
 
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I see said the blind man as picked up his hammer and saw and proceded off to work! :eek: :D

Thanks Ed for the pics, its true a picture is worth a thousand words. Actually I thought that was the set up but the pics verify it 2thumbs and now I understand why it works!
 
thanks for putting that tip up with pictures Ed. I appreciate how you always step and volunteer your hard earned knowledge.
 
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