Forgings?

son of liberty

son of liberty

Well-Known Member
Ok folks, I have never had the honer of working with a Knife maker or smith or seeing one work beyond Youtube. I have been forging out knives and finishing them on the belt grinder, my question is to what level of completion do you forge a knife before you start grinding on it? Some pictures would be great as so far the best I get is, as close to complete as possible, well how close is that realistically?

If you guys would throw up a few of your fresh from the forge pictures i would be thankful.
 
I second that question ! I have been doing it the same way , a few ready to grind pics ,would be nice .
I've been hammering out as much as I can then grinding , so far so good .
 
You look for a Bladesmith in your area. Get the Knives Annual it has a listing by state. If you live near me you are welcomed to stop by the shop.:biggrin:
Learning from a Smith will really cut down on your learning curve.:3:
 
I have wondered about this too... And I think part of it depends on what kind of knife you are trying to make. If you want rustic, tribal hammered finish, take it as far as you can with the hammer... If you are going for JS Certification, it looks like you will grind a lot too... (that is only based on Janik's thread and Ed Caffery's 5160 article)...
 
What level do you want to forge to before moving to the grinder? This may sound like a facetious question but it plays a major role. Once mastered forging is the most efficient and fastest way to shape metal but if you are really good at grinding and just learning to forge you may be better off leaning toward your strengths. Guys new to forging will probably need to leave it thicker for the grinder than veterans, but then guys new to grinding may want to leave it thicker too;). Until you get a handle on forging you will have lots of scale, lots of pits and dings and even some kinks and crooks that will need some bulk to grind away later, although you should never delude yourself thinking you can grind a warp out... get it straight on the anvil. However the biggest issue to deal with when first forging will be decarburization. Until you learn to carefully regulate forge atmospheres and minimum heats you will have a skin on the outside of the blade of carbonless iron that will be from .003"-.0005" or worse, depending on you skills, this will have to be removed on the grinder if you want a hardenable surface later on.

Once you get the swing of things you can leave the edge around .035” but until then you may want to go thicker. I tell new makers to try to forge the edge as thick as a nickel and grind it as thin as a dime before heat treatment. I go much thinner myself, but I took quite a few years walking it down thinner with confidence.
 
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I hope to be able to devote a lot mote time to my learning of the techniques , in the coming year . But until I can get some time around an experienced bladesmith , I really appreciate all the info you guys share .
Thanks Dan
 
it really does depend on your desired look, i try to take it down as close to finished as possible, then do as minimal grinding as possible, but i have heard of people leaving tons of material on, like 1/4 inch or something insane like that. but i figure the less material you remove after forging, the less waste there is, which is always nice.
 
"like 1/4 inch or something insane like that."
dont get me wrong, im not saying that leaving a lot of material is bad or the wrong way to do it, its just not my style, its not my place to judge peoples techniques, just wanted to clear that up...
 
I have found that after developing more skill with the hammer it takes less time on the grinder to get rid of all the hammer marks and I can forge closer to the finished product. I don't have to start out with a 1/4" thick piece of steel to end up with a 1/8" thick blade. The knife will tell you whether or not you've forged too close to finished. It's just a matter of experience.

Doug Lester
 
I forge then draw file, then forge some more. Nothing wrong with grinders, sometimes I wish we had one but when filing you can see the edge you are working on and hot iron files easy..........Randy
 
Ive heard it said that 5 minutes at the anvil will save 1 hour on the grinder. As for me, I have progressed from a semi forged shape that I ground down to close to 90% finished forged. I will echo what Indian George had to say, watching and working with an experianced smith will grow your learning curve greatly! For me it was learning what NOT to do, as well as learning all the little helpful "tricks" that have already been learned. Good Luck! And remember, "Knifemaking is a Journey, not a Destination, enjoy the ride!
 
I remember reading one saying that is supposedly pretty old, can't rememeber where I heard it, but it sounds like good info, I think it maybe an old Bladesmith saying, it goes like this, "Forge it thick and grind it thin", personally( I am not an expert), I take mine to the point where I'm comfortable, where if I continue would be a mistake. Learning to stop once I got the shape or profile like I wanted, I've yet to be able to forge in the bevels, but that goes back to stopping before I messed up what I had. Once I transfer the idea in my head to the steel and I like it, I have a tendency to "try this", "try that" or "this might look cool, lets try it". Stopping that has saved more blades that I can count, I'm not saying I don't do that anymore, I just TRY to plan it before hand instead of changing my ideas midstream. I'm the worst about sticking to a plan, but when the steel starts talking to me, I get ideas that I just have to try, those voices could be the ones in my head though....

Seriously, you are getting great advice here, there are some that can forge a blade, bevels and all to the point that there is very little grinding left, they usually have a power hammer to help with that, I would say keep working on doing as much with the hammer, until you get to the point of messing up, find that spot and stop there. Remember there is a lot that can be done with light blows when working the bevel in. And also remember your own limitations, I can't hammer for hours on end, never have been able to, my arm goes to rubber after about hour or so, then there is nothing but mistakes to be done at that point. Wild blows from the hammer, weird angles of the head because I can't control the hammer at that point, stopping when I get to that point has helped a lot as well. Of course when I get my NEW TIRE HAMMER (yeah, I'm excited), it will all change, except the learning! That never stops!!! I think a picture might be a misinterpretation of what you can or should do. New makers should take the advice above, get with an experienced Smith, tell us where you are, I'd bet there is someone close you haven't heard of and if your close to me you ALL have an open invitation to my shop!.....errr let me finish with the renovation first, not much knife making been going of late! But if you are in my area, come on, I'd stop what I'm doing if I can and we'll make a kinfe or 2...or 3 ...or ...
Thanks, Rex
 
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