Best first home forge/heat treat set up

W

Waldors

Active Member
Hello all.

I want to begin making my first knife soon, and would like to know what everyone thinks the best economical first forge/heat treat set up for a beginner would be.

My two best options seem to be a fire brick forge like this or a can/bucket and insulation set up like this.

Either way, I will be needing a torch. Which is better for a small forge, MAP gas or propane?

Thanks all.
 
I do not see your examples. Make a large coffee can or freon tank forge and use a propane gas weed burner torch as the burner. Google these to decide which is for you. I harden them in my forge, then quench. I use a toaster oven for tempering most of my knives. You can also buy a small Atlas forge pretty cheap and have something very portable and well built. When you need a larger one it will still be useful as a travel forge.

Good luck with the journey of no return, we all end up hooked.
 
Tacticallysharp,

Thank you!

Some more questions:

If i use kaowool with the paint can forge should i do a single one inch layer or double that up and do two layers?

I have heard that the weed burners do not do a very good oxygenated burn. Do you have any experience with this? I had been looking at using a bernzomatic torch from home depot, but some of the weed burner options are cheaper so i would like to know

Thanks, I will do a WIP on this when I actually get started.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Get a copy of Wayne Goddard's book. $50.00 knife shop.
Though I am sure it's up to about $100.00 now! Still he will show you how to built a one brick forge plus many other tips!
 
Waldors said:
Thanks for the recommendation.
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You are very welcome. You can dump a tom of $$$ into tools etc when you get started. I did my first few Knives with used files and sand paper to see if knife making was for me. I slowly made and sold knives until I could afford big bucks equipment. Knife making isn't for everyone! We are a strange breed.

Build a few with as little cash out lay as possible and see if giving blood and burning yourself etc on a daily basis is really for you?

The most important thing is to enjoy yourself!
 
I used my BBQ pit and a air gun to get the quench temp up! It took a large bag of coals to do two knifes. I heated a long piece of 5/8" round stock and used that to get my oil up to the 120deg. And Amazon sells a Infrared Thermometer w/ Laser Sight for under $20 to keep an eye on everything! Leave some ash in the BBQ so ya don't burn through.
 
rhinoknives said:
You are very welcome. You can dump a tom of $$$ into tools etc when you get started. I did my first few Knives with used files and sand paper to see if knife making was for me.
Click to expand...

I had actually looked into this. I did the math and found that for the cost for me to buy files and make a jig would come out pretty close to the cost of the harbor freight 1x30 belt sander, which comes with an 80 grit belt. If I can go for that should I?
 
Instead of getting the 1X30" sander save the money towards a real grinder in the 2X72" size. Also those files are not either/or; you'll still need them.

Doug
 
I have made a couple of paint can forges with friends starting out. I used a single layer and they had weed burners. Not the best torch but for starters they worked and are stills going strong. I am getting ready to build a demo forge from an empty freon tank. It will have one layer and a removable hard fire brick floor. I'm planning to use an Atlas burner from USA Knifemaker's in this one.

The weed torch we used attached to a BBQ propane tank, and get a 2x72 grinder. It will save you a lot of headaches and money in the long run. Check out Pheer grinders. Reasonable price, nice machine for the money.
 
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Doug Lester said:
Instead of getting the 1X30" sander save the money towards a real grinder in the 2X72" size. Also those files are not either/or; you'll still need them.

Doug
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Doug is on track with this recomemdation as usual. That one 80 grit belt will last 10 minutes or less. There is 30 square inches of paper there. if you want to make knives with a grinder at least get the 2 x 42. Sears makes a 2 x 42 that I had for my first grinder and if you don't modify it. you can return for another new one when it burns out. The 2 x 72 is really the best value in belts and useage. www.cootebeltgrinder.com This is a real Big Boy ginder.

i drilled around the flat stock with a HF drill press and then connected them with a hack saw to start my profiles. A nice set of files always comes in useful.
 
Alright, thanks.

Instead of just using a hacksaw, could I shape a bar of a high carbon steel between .187 and .25 thick with just a dremel with a cutting bit, or is the hacksaw necessary? Could i use the dremel for anything else?
 
You can use a Dremel for lots and lots of knife related tasks. The only drawback is all those attachments cost you some money and they do not wear very well. When I first started, I used a Dremel to cut/sand/shape almost everything. I would burn threw a great deal of discs, sanding discs, etc. All of them cost me some cash.

As stated above, once I got a 2x72 grinder - I hardly use the Dremel any longer for cutting or rough shaping. Occasionally I use it to sand in hard to reach places.

It is just a matter of progression. As you acquire better tools, knowledge and techniques - you find better ways to get the job done.

Some beginning knife makers complete a whole knife with nothing more than a few files, a hacksaw, and some sandpaper. Nowadays that would be roughing it - IMHO.

You will get there. Good luck

DeMo
 
I started out with a 1 x 30 HF belt/disc grinder. It finally took a dump on me and I got another but bought the protection plan. I have taken one back for a new replacement. I do like it for hard to reach areas and to do finesse grinding. In between my two HF's I bought a Kalamazoo 2" x 48" with the 1HP upgraded motor. I'm still getting used to it but the bigger belts last longer and it's got power to spare compared to the HF. I spent around $500-600+/- for it cause I wasn't sure that I'd stick with knifemaking enough to spring for a 2 x 72. I will probably end up with a 2 x 72 someday but my work benches are two B&D Workmates so I move the grinders around all of the time. I still use the 1 x 30 for finishing handles as the bigger grinder will make dust out of a handle in no time flat. I too use a Dremel for cutting sheet for liners, bar stock, mosaic tubes and also sheet steel for my knife patterns. I buy the metal cutting discs in the bulk packs. I need to move up to something with a little more kick but everything in due time. Someday I'll get a band saw too....Santa if ur listening....
 
Oh, if you do go with the HF 1 x 30 get some better belts at Jantz or somewhere similar that carries that size. I like the Orange Blaze belts for stock removal but I'd recommend to also get some J weight ones (Klingspor I think) that bend into small areas like finger slots. Play that grinder like a fiddle I once heard someone say in one of the forum posts. You can do some amazing things with the edge of the belt! Sorry, I have totally gotten off topic in my last two posts. I'll shut up and get back to work.
 
Harbor freight files are not as good as a nice set of American made files. I can only speak to the sets of needle files......but are they 10 time worse? (the cost difference between HF and American made)

The first time I bought some was 10 yrs ago. In an emergency and the was a HF down the street. I expected junk and was pleasantly surprised.


Their needle files are all I buy now. I like that I don't have to treat them like an heirloom I will be passing on to my children some day. When I dull one up I toss it just like I would sandpaper or skotchbrite.


haven't looked in the grobet catalog in a long time now......
 
I still use a HF 1x30....their blue zirc belts will work at first but I would definitely get at least some good ceramic 150 grits and cork/scotch brite/norax belts to finish. Leave the brown alum. oxide for the handles/wood/micarta. Ceramic belts as mentioned or from supergrit will work much better. I still use hand saws, hack saws and hand drills for just about everything else. I found that a good sharp saw will cut just as fast as a band saw, just more work. And a cheap $9 angle grinder from HF with cutoff wheels makes short work of your larger steel cutting tasks. I too used a dremel a lot when I started, until I realized I could save a good deal of money because a hacksaw blade is cheaper and lasts much longer etc.

The biggest downside is not how well the HF grinder grinds, it's how much of a pain it can be to get it to work correctly. You'll need a little bit of ingenuity to make the platten work, to make the tool rest work (i simply clamp a cutout of a small piece of flat wood for a larger, smoother surface to pull across), etc. Power is lacking, but it will still cut and work even if it does take a little longer than the >$300 rigs. But if you're like me and are only going to do 2 knives or less a month, a $40 HF grinder works.

For heat treat, I have a fire pit in my backyard I built. Landscaping stones on the outside, filled with sand. I prop a hairdryer up to blow at the base of a charcoal bed, kinda from the side. It heat treats simple steels quite well. Stainless is out of my reach, but you can always charge extra and send them off if your customer wants it.

I kinda like not having all the expensive tools and such. It's arguable, but after talking with a lot of people, it's probably not a bad way to start either because it teaches you to get a real feel for what you're doing. I feel that there's an art to getting it right.

Edit: I will amend this to say that small to medium sized knives will work fine with this grinder. Longer and larger faced knives are a bit more for the HF special. For instance, Rhino's kitchen knives would be really hard on the motor with that much surface area. Longer than about 5 inches is going to give you a time keeping things straight. Just thought I'd add that after thought of working on mine.
 
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