Anyone with plumbing experience

C Craft

Well-Known Member
#1
I got a problem that to fix properly could mean tearing up an outside wall, (inside and out), the outside monolithic slab, and possibly part of the interior floor/slab!!!

I will try to explain the situation. What happened is I think my son got onto of the pipe with the riding mower and the weight cracked the fitting. So here goes the explanation!!!

What I have is a fitting coming out of the slab to my septic tank that has a crack in the top of it. However that same fitting feeds to a stack in the wall as well as has a sewer main line coming into it!!!

I think what I am looking at it like this fitting, the one on the right! 1523405212836.png The small fitting goes to a stack in that wall and the other is the sewer line under the slab and where it continues out to the septic tank.

Looking at the image on the right, rotate it counter clockwise, one time and the part sticking out of the slab would be part of that Y or unequal tee, where it goes into the stack and the 4" line going to the septic tank. So getting into it to actually be able to replace the fitting would mean cutting the other lines and using a coupling to get back to the 4" line as well as the stack!!

So here is the question will fiberglass actually bond to PVC??? I am proposing cleaning the pipe/ rough up the surface and mix up some fiberglass and using fiberglass cloth wrap the pipe where the crack is. My problem is I do not know it the fiberglass would actually bond to the PVC!

Anyone know about the bond issue. If not fiberglass would an epoxy bond better to it!!!
 

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bladegrinder

Well-Known Member
#2
Wow, bad place for a crack. if it was the pipe you'd have a few options, it sounds like your describing the bell on the fitting?
If that's the case whatever you do is going to be considered jury rigging it Cliff. what I would do is get some scrap pipe and experiment. what might work is a fiberglass patch using pvc glue, rough up the pipe good with a dremel or something then use purple primer on it. or you might be able to just put glue in the crack, put a hose clamp on it and tighten the daylights out of it. but if you stress that pipe again it will crack again, in the same place or it will start chasing up the fitting.
It shouldn't be an impossible fix though, unless you go to sell your house and a home inspector see's it. :rolleyes:
 

C Craft

Well-Known Member
#3
Yep, I know its sort of a bandage! However no plans to sell the house just got a roof on it!!! The alternative is a whole bunch of work and money. To get to the stack you would have to open the wall inside at very least cause you would have to cut the stack and sleeve it back into the new fitting as well you have to bust the slab and footing just to get to the fitting. Cut back the sewer line to sleeve it into the new fitting. Replace line to septic tank as there is not enough room to get a sleeve in it before it goes into the tank! Then repair slab/mono footing and repair inside wall and floor and,.......

Well you get the idea. I know it would never pass an inspection but for now it would sure solve a lot and much cheaper. I have the pipe exposed, so I could bed under it with concrete to keep it from being stressed later!!

So if I don't have any one that actually knows if fiberglass will bond to PVC, then I will have to do some experimenting!

What ticks me off the line should have been about 2" lower at best and then it would have been below ground. However I have a feeling the plumber may have thought that the yard would be back filled. You know one of them things that would have costed the contractor another load of fill dirt!

As to my situation I don't have the money to tear all that up right now! So will go with the jury rigg for now!! So far it is not leaking but if it ever breaks into, then I got no alternatives but to bust all that out to get to it and fix it properly!!
 

KenH

Well-Known Member
#4
Cliff - you've just described why I've never really like a house on a slab - the water lines are either poured into concrete, or ran in ceiling and I do NOT like either option.

As far as epoxy bonding to PVC, I'm just not sure. I've used epoxy for more years than I like to think around the boating world. I know there are so many plastics epoxy does not bond to my first thought is "No" - but not sure. Take a piece of PVC, dab a bit of epoxy on it, then check tomorrow and let us know.

I don't think PVC glue with work with a fiberglass patch, but you might be able to cut some PVC sections that would scarph in over the broken spot and glue it with PVC glue.
 

C Craft

Well-Known Member
#5
Hmm, got to find some time to some experimenting!! The location of the crack leaves very little room for bonding surface! Where the fitting came thru the slab there is only about 1 1/2" or 2" max from where it turns up to the wall stack and the bell where the outside line ties in. The crack is kind of in the middle so I end with about 3/4" to an 1" on each side for bonding surface. There couldn't be a worse place for something like that to break!

Then again if it weren't for bad luck I wouldn't have any luck at all!! :eek: LOL

Maybe I need some of that tape they advertise on TV where you can cut a boat in two and tape it back together and it won't leak after all day on the lake!!! Sure and I got some ocean front property in Arizona I want to sell you!!!
 

bladegrinder

Well-Known Member
#6
I haven't used the tape but the spray they use on a boat made of window screen works.
In fact I think it's outstanding, I was paying $14.00 a tube for special RV grade silicone rubber whatever stuff for my RV to fix leaks, it was messy as all get out and didn't go very far. I finally broke down for 10 bucks to try that stuff.
The roof of my slideout was leaking, so I wiped down the leading edge with soapy water, ran a tape line and laid down 3 coats.
The next day I pulled up the tape and it looked factory applied, it turned to a hard rubber and was absolutely sealed down tight.
now I just have to replace the ceiling with some paneling. that stuff works, I recommend it for at least RV leaks.
 

C Craft

Well-Known Member
#7
Where the fitting came thru the slab there is only about 1 1/2" or 2" max from where it turns up to the wall stack and the bell where the outside line ties in. The crack is kind of in the middle so I end with about 3/4" to an 1" on each side for bonding surface. There couldn't be a worse place for something like that to break!
Sooooo,....... I went back to the fitting and looked one more time. Where I thought I might have a bearing surface of 1 1/2" or 2" on that fitting. I must have been dreaming the Y that goes up to the stack in the wall, starts just about a 1/2" from the bell that the 4" pipe going to septic tank begins.

So now I am back to think I need strength. I am still looking into the idea of using the fiberglass mesh strips wrapped around the pipe, impregnated with epoxy.

I am going to email West Epoxy System and see if they can tell me if they have an epoxy that will actually bond to the PVC, instead of just hardening against it!!! Back when I used to do this kind of work I called their customer info and they were extremely helpful in telling the correct product to use for what I needed at the time!! No guess work on your part they can tell yes or no and exact instructions how to!!!

I use to do construction and I wouldn't touch this job short of $1500 - $2000 dollars to do it and do it right and repair slab and floor tile and wall inside and I ain't sure in today's world that is enough!! So I am looking for the Fort Knox quality bandage at a Wallyworld price at the moment!! LOL
 

Oze

Well-Known Member
#8
If the damage was caused by an accidental hit with the ride on mower, would home insurance cover you? Just a thought.
 

bladegrinder

Well-Known Member
#9
The problem with using home owners insurance is you'll have a deductible to pay...then they'll probably raise your rates.
I'd only use home owners for near catastrophic damage.
 

C Craft

Well-Known Member
#10
Oze, probably, Steve you are dead on the head.

Recently I had a copper pipe busted under my slab. It cost me $900.00 Dollars. The insurance paid out about $1600.00 for repair of walls in two areas. Where they had to run the new lines I paid for and to repair drywall, and repaint and replace vinyl floor material. So after deductible, (which was $500.00 in this case) the insurance paid out $1100.00 The adjuster arrived and is in the back yard before I knew he was here, Taking pictures and asking questions about everything but the plumbing damage I called them for!!

Two weeks later I get a call they are canceling my home owners insurance because my roof is at the end of its life. Let me tell you me and the wife live pretty much hand to mouth, and putting a roof on at this time, well............it wasn't in the cards. But my mortgage is cheaper than renting so you do what you have to!!

We had to repair to some bad fascia and soffit and a brand new roof!! $9500.00 dollars later. We got them to keep the home owners insurance in tact, which keeps my mortgage from being called due on demand! So I have to give them pictures and all the info about the permits and completion and final inspection!! I called on Friday to let them know all that was being sent out UPS on Friday should arrive Monday at their office. So help me God, 10:00 AM Monday morning I get a call. They can't accept my pictures the agent has to come out and visually inspect and take his own pictures.

So while he is here he asks about the double back door on the house being boarded up. I told him somebody tried to kick in the French Double doors on the back of the house about a year ago. My wife was scared they would come back. So I boarded them up with the same plywood I use to board up with during hurricanes!! Beside all that there is no way to arrange furniture in that living room with those doors there and make it useable. The doors are still there and intact but I plan on tearing them out and putting a window there one day! So until then I left them boarded up!

The following week on Monday I get a call from the local insurance office and the underwriters want to know what is the deal with the back doors being boarded up!! I explained the whole thing again and told them I had told the agent all about this! If you need to come see the doors you can see them from inside my house. After all I do have some rights, it is my home.

Call the insurance company, not a chance!! The insurance companies here in Florida have gone absolutely crazy and the problem is their is no oversight on what they can and can't do!!! Believe me it ain't right doesn't even touch it! If we don't wake up in this country soon we are all going to find out we lost all of our rights!!
 

Oze

Well-Known Member
#12
By the way the insurance companies are the same here, maybe not that bad yet. You need a major catastrophe to make a claim worthwhile.
 

C Craft

Well-Known Member
#13
So I called West System Epoxy on there toll free number and followed directions to ask for a technical expert!

From there site:
The fastest way to get an answer from us is to call and ask to speak to our Technical Advisors toll-free within the United States at 866-937-8797, Monday to Friday, 9:00 am to 5:00 pm ET. From outside the U.S.A, call 1-989-684-7286. Our experienced, full-time Tech Staff is here to help with your questions about epoxy.

So told him I needed info on which of their epoxy systems would actually bond to PVC pipe, and I mean bond not just cure on the surface. He said this would bond to it no problem, G/Flex 650 Toughened Epoxy. Clean the surface and rough up with 80 grit sandpaper and it will actually bond into the PVC!

So the same stuff we use for knifemaking. Who would have thunk it!! LOL

Anyone know where the best price on the net might be for 32oz. 45 minute cure time, for the G/Flex 650 Toughened Epoxy might be bought!!
 

KenH

Well-Known Member
#14
That's the way to find the answer, go right to the source and ask. 32 oz kit? that's a lot of epoxy! going to cost darn close to $60 or so. I looked on Amazon, WestMarine, Jamestown marine, and a couple other places and it's up around $60. I think Amazon has it for about $55 shipped as best price I've seen for the 32 oz kit.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002PKLO80/
 

C Craft

Well-Known Member
#15
Ken, thank you! I figure what I don't use on the pipe, well..................... I can always use it up on my knives!! :)

By the way if anyone has any questions about West Epoxy System, call them and they will gladly discuss what it is the right epoxy for whatever job you may be trying to figure out!

They are great to work with and will give a "how to" do the prep, curing, etc. etc.!!

I had called them before back when I use to build furniture and they told me what was the right product, how to and coloration, etc! At the time I was working on a small table from the early 1900's and once repaired I wanted it to not show the repairs!! They gave me some great tips!!

The numbers are above and you can alway Google and get them!!
 
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