52100 round knife?

Ed Caffery had a thread some time back where he discussed the merits of different steels when used in stock removal blades. Being an advocate of 52100 steel, he had read that stock removal blades of 52100 were inferior to a number of other steels in stock removal blades so he set out to do his own tests. Long story short. He ended up with similar results. He found that 52100 makes superb correctly forged blades but mediocre stock removal blades.

You might want to look up that thread before you contract for a knife.

Carey
 
Thanks, I was hopping for a blade forged to shape.
Bob Kramer uses stick removal to make is chef knives and they are pretty dam good, he heat treats is salt, might have something to do with it.
 
I would contact Bill Burke and see if he has the time. He can make kitchen knives from 52100 that hold an edge well, really well.
 
Bruce Bump said:
I would contact Bill Burke and see if he has the time. He can make kitchen knives from 52100 that hold an edge well, really well.
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Bill is my #1 fav smith! How ever I already have 2 knives on order with him, well over a year wait. One he told me last week was almost done. Also I don't mind dropping 2+k on a kitchen knife but I can't justify that much for a round knife.
Here's a pic of the suji he made me.
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Yep, this is what I'm talking about.
BTW Bill is one of my favs too.
Chef Niloc said:
Bill is my #1 fav smith! How ever I already have 2 knives on order with him, well over a year wait. One he told me last week was almost done. Also I don't mind dropping 2+k on a kitchen knife but I can't justify that much for a round knife.
Here's a pic of the suji he made me.
49944dca.png

It's the best knife I have.
Click to expand...
 
Carey Quinn said:
Ed Caffery had a thread some time back where he discussed the merits of different steels when used in stock removal blades. Being an advocate of 52100 steel, he had read that stock removal blades of 52100 were inferior to a number of other steels in stock removal blades so he set out to do his own tests. Long story short. He ended up with similar results. He found that 52100 makes superb correctly forged blades but mediocre stock removal blades.

You might want to look up that thread before you contract for a knife.

Carey
Click to expand...

Hi Carey,

I've had a quick search for this thread but can't spot it. (Searched for 52100 then looked for threads started by Ed)

Can you remember anymore specifics? Thread title and was it started by Ed?

Thanks! :)
 
Stew I don't know if you have Ed Fowler's first book " knife talk"He tested this theory out and the results were overwhelmingly. He did the tests with Wayne Goddaed.
Any way he made 4 knives. Two stock removal and two forged to shape. One of each had multiple heat treats. He did 4 sets of rope cut tests sharpening the blades after each test. The average cuts of the blades were:
Stock removal single quench: 44,35,37,47= 163 cuts
Stock removal triple quench: 49,44,45,57= 195 cuts
Forged single:78,77,60,54=269 cuts
Forged triple: 120,127,132,130=509 cuts

To be honest I don't know why or what the theory behind a forged to shape knife being a better preforming blade and find it unbelievable my self that the forged triple was 2x the preforming blade. If any of you know the argument of why a forged blade is better please let me know.
Hat sad I did a test about two years ago. I used the knife above made by Bill Burke who uses Ed's method ( he was trained by Ed) and put it against one made by Bob Kramer. Bobs knife was straight 52100 not clad like Bills. Bobs blade was made by stock removal but was heat treated with his salt bath recipe ( I think he keeps it a secret?)
I used a similar test that Ed used but these knives are kitchen knives so I used Red Snappers. I checked the blade after each fish to look for chipping after going threw the bones. I falayed the fish stoping when the knife would no longer cut threw the skin easily. Then I stropped the blades on felt loaded with diamond compound and started over. I don't have the results in front of me. I posted them over at the knife forums but can't do a search for it B/C I was banned over there for disagreeing with something Mike Steward sad. But I do remember that Bills blade was the better preforming blade, but not by a land slide like in Ed's test. Bobs knife at the end I want to say cut 12 fish less, maybe 20? And had a very small chip in the edge. After the test Bill and Bob talked and it was noted that Bill did harden his blade a little more something like 62 vs. Bob's 58-60?
 
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Hi,

I haven't read Ed Fowler's book, but maybe I should. :)

Looking at the results, I wonder if it's the heating cycles that is affecting the steel in a positive way as opposed to actually forging it?

If you look at the numbers, the best blade would have been heated the most times and the worst would have been heated the least.

If that's the case, I wonder if a stock removal blade could be made to perform better by doing lots of heating cycles or a reaaallllly long soak?
 
Chef Niloc said:
Stew I don't know if you have Ed Fowler's first book " knife talk"He tested this theory out and the results were overwhelmingly. He did the tests with Wayne Goddaed.
Any way he made 4 knives. Two stock removal and two forged to shape. One of each had multiple heat treats. He did 4 sets of rope cut tests sharpening the blades after each test. The average cuts of the blades were:
Stock removal single quench: 44,35,37,47= 163 cuts
Stock removal triple quench: 49,44,45,57= 195 cuts
Forged single:78,77,60,54=269 cuts
Forged triple: 120,127,132,130=509 cuts

To be honest I don't know why or what the theory behind a forged to shape knife being a better preforming blade and find it unbelievable my self that the forged triple was 2x the preforming blade. If any of you know the argument of why a forged blade is better please let me know.
Hat sad I did a test about two years ago. I used the knife above made by Bill Burke who uses Ed's method ( he was trained by Ed) and put it against one made by Bob Kramer. Bobs knife was straight 52100 not clad like Bills. Bobs blade was made by stock removal but was heat treated with his salt bath recipe ( I think he keeps it a secret?)
I used a similar test that Ed used but these knives are kitchen knives so I used Red Snappers. I checked the blade after each fish to look for chipping after going threw the bones. I falayed the fish stoping when the knife would no longer cut threw the skin easily. Then I stropped the blades on felt loaded with diamond compound and started over. I don't have the results in front of me. I posted them over at the knife forums but can't do a search for it B/C I was banned over there for disagreeing with something Mike Steward sad. But I do remember that Bills blade was the better preforming blade, but not by a land slide like in Ed's test. Bobs knife at the end I want to say cut 12 fish less, maybe 20? And had a very small chip in the edge. After the test Bill and Bob talked and it was noted that Bill did harden his blade a little more something like 62 vs. Bob's 58-60?
Click to expand...

Link to the thread over at KF: http://www.knifeforums.com/forums/showtopic.php?tid/873616/post/2082888/
 
Im hopeing to make a few stock removal blade out of 52100. I want to try testing a "cold forged" one v.s. a normal stock removale one in a cutting test. i had a guy tell me that i needed a few videos of my knives on my site so mabey ill try youtubeing the test. what do you guys think?
 
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update

I wound up getting one made from Bill this was a Christmas gift, nice gift
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and since this is the sheath forum, here's the sheath I made for it

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I came up with this " clam shell " design before Paul made his last video that showed instructions on how to make a round knife sheath. It works well, I made another for a Butchman knife I have.
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