2021 KITH Jones/Kingery

FD Kingery

Well-Known Member
Sean and I have finished designing our knife and thought we would start a thread detailing how we got there and then use it as our WIP to document the builds. Like all knife designs we started with a conversation.
Sean - "This should be interesting. I've given it a little bit of thought but I haven't put anything down on paper yet. I suppose the first thing to do is to decide on a style. Such as a kitchen knife, Bowie, camp knife, etc. Do you have any preference there? The only one I'd rather not do, is a kitchen knife."

Fred - Hi Sean,
So lets get this started, I am ok with no kitchen knives. I admit that I gravitate toward bigger historical type blades, I like big knives. Seriously though, I like the idea of pushing the skill set limits since we tend to make what is comfortable and we think we can sell. You mentioned bowies and camp knives. I am adding a couple of pics that might be a good build, and still have room for individual expression. first is a smaller bowie similar to what I know as a Boy Scout Bowie (blade around 6" ish), then there is the old bird and trout, also a boy scout knife (this is one that I have tried before and is deceptively simple to get the proportions to feel right, blade around 4"), and last something I have thought would always make a good camp knife style and what we always called a watermelon knife, is the old hickory butcher blade, maybe give the handle some curves, add a bolster and keep the blade at or under 10" so it's not too big but still enough heft to chop and call it a camp knife. If you like any of these ideas or have another design that you would like to do let me know and I say we each do some sketches and see what we come up with and what we can incorporate into a single design.

1950s Boy Scout Knife.jpgBoy Scouts of America marked Western fixed blade knife Boy scouts of america.jpgold hickory butcher.jpg
Sean - "
I like the idea of the camp knife and I'm working on a few ideas. I will attempt to have at least one sketch up by tomorrow evening. I notice a few in the photo have an almost Nesmuk look to them. That could be interesting. I've never made anything larger than a 6 inch blade before. But I believe I could handle up to about 10" depending on other features.
I'm only a stock removal guy. I do have a small forge. But it's strictly for heat treating.
Do you have a preference between a hidden tang and a regular tang? I haven't done a hidden tang to date but it's a method I've been wanting to try. So if you would like to go that route I'm game.

Fred - "Just read your reply and thought I’d make a quick comment before the day gets off and running. As far as hidden tang vs full, why don’t we agree on the profile and general dimensions then we can leave the rest up to your choice. This way there is still room to try or not to different techniques. Also if you want to shorten the length just let me know 10” is a big knife we may want to go 8 or 9 let’s see where the design takes us.

Sean - "Sounds good. I think an 8 inch blade would be more doable for me.
I'm out and about this afternoon.
I'll have a profile based on that tonight "

Later that morning, I sent - A few quick sketches based on 2” wide, the blade about 9” with a handle about 5”. Could be made full tang with scales, hidden tang or thru tang with screw-on butt cap. Feel free to tweak and play with the lines. Let me know what you think
IMG_7464.JPG

Sean -
I'm not entirely happy with my sketch. For one I'm showing a bolster with a hidden tang. Which doesn't make sense. So consider it two images in one. One of our cats kept pestering me and really slowed me down.
I don't know if you want to consider the fuller part of the design or not. I haven't done a fuller before. But considering the size of the knife I'm considering it.
Food for thought

My first proposal for Fred cropped.jpg
Hi Sean
I finally got some time to sit down and work with the drawing you sent.
first; I imported it into Inkscape. then drew over your lines in red for the blade and blue for the handle. I decided to leave out the fuller, bolster and the tang, in my opinion these should be individual choices along with blade grind. Lets agree on the profile shape and leave the rest up to whim.
Screenshot 2021-10-09 104910.png
second; I smoothed some of the transitions, I lengthened the arc on the back of the peak, flattened the clip slightly and gave the tip a bit more belly to smooth the transition from the flat part of the cutting edge.
Screenshot 2021-10-09 105716.png
I had just hit print and was getting ready to send it along when I decided I wasn't happy with the 2 areas with the arrows, back to the drawing board, (we always say in drafting that if you want to see your mistakes just hit print) the first looks to me like a stress riser with the square corner so I added some curves, then there was the pointy part at the transition of the handle so that got curved, after several minutes of pushing the lines around I settled on the design below.
Screenshot 2021-10-09 194325.png
So far all of these are a 9" blade with 5" handle so for fun I reduced the blade to 8" and kept the 2" at the peak, then when I reduced to 7" it looked fat and I reduced the peak to 1.75". All said and done here they are, I actually think I like the 7" best.
Screenshot 2021-10-09 194912.png
What are your thoughts and comments? The attachment should print full size on 11 x 17 inch paper.

Sean - I like your changes and I'm in agreement that the 7 inch blade looks the best. From my standpoint I don't think any other changes are necessary.
Fred - Sounds good to me. I’m ready to get started.

And there you have it we started with some ideas, likes and dislikes, went through a couple of versions and ended up deciding on the 7" blade. Now to get started.
 
I started on this knife a couple weeks and forgot to take initial photos. Here's where I'm at right now. I profiled it last week and started on the grind last night. The big curve on this knife is a bit of a challenge for me. I've never ground a knife before with this big of a curve.

I need to drill some holes in the handle before I proceed any further. The steel is 50100 from Boss Dog. This might end up being a practice piece depending on how the grinding goes.

 
The last couple of months have been tough for me to get any time in the shop, but finally last weekend I got to work in the forge and although it took 2 days before I was satisfied with the profile, I finally got this profiled and ready to work at the grinder.
Not shown was a photo of the first attempt where I cut a preformed clip then forged it. By the time I was done I had a nice bowie clip that was too long for this design. Time to set it aside and start over. (picture is on my phone but won't download to the computer, going to have to figure that out later)
Second attempt looking better chalk line is the 7" mark.
22728.jpg
The clip still needs to lift quite a bit, back in the fire.
22726.jpg
Looking more like the pattern
22830.jpg
2 days latter and the pattern fits and ready to clean up the profile
22832.jpg
Profiled and started to taper the tang.
20211211_112241.11.jpg
I guess I need to get back to grinding now. Stay Tuned
 
Sorry I haven't posted any progress. My first knife ended up being a disaster when I attempted to free hand grind a fuller. That was two weeks ago. I've made some progress since then, but not a lot. On the second knife I've managed to do an initial grind and I have the tang mostly tapered.

However my wife has been in the hospital since Dec 26th and it is really slowing me down with the KITH. I don't know what to say other than I apologize for being so slow. Her health is not good and she seems to be getting weaker.

I'd like to finish my KITH knife, but I don't know at this point whether that's feasible or not. Fred and Kimmi, I will leave it up to you what you would like to do. I'll continue to make what progress I can, but it's going to be hit and miss for a while.

I really like these KITH's and I didn't anticipate my wife getting so sick. She's always sick to a degree. But this latest set back is very worrying.

Anyhow, that's where I'm at. I'll try and post some pics later tonight and see if I can get some more done.

Again apologies. Life getting in the way again. :rolleyes:
 
Sean,
I'm sorry to hear that about your wife. I'll keep you all in my prayers. Family always comes first.

I'll make this offer, if at whatever point you determine you won't be able to finish it, let me know and I'll finish it for you. I can then send it back to you and you and Fred can exchange them.
 
Sean,
I'm sorry to hear that about your wife. I'll keep you all in my prayers. Family always comes first.

I'll make this offer, if at whatever point you determine you won't be able to finish it, let me know and I'll finish it for you. I can then send it back to you and you and Fred can exchange them.
That's a fine offer. I'll keep it in mind...though I would prefer to do it myself, I have been a bit overwhelmed. I'll make time tonight and over the rest of this week and see where I'm at this weekend and decide then.

Thanks again
 
I made some progress tonight. Completed tapering the tang and evening up the two sides of the blade. I still have some more cleanup to do on it before heat treat, in particular the edges. But I'm fairly satisfied at this point. At least the two sides match and the tang appears to be flat and even.




I'll be checking this more closely after heat treat and final hand sanding.

I also selected some handle material tonight and got it very roughly cut out. More on that tomorrow.

And I have a new forge coming from Atlas Forge. So I will be able to heat treat the knife myself. (It's 1084) My little coffee can forge is about dead and it wasn't large enough for this project anyway. Should be a good investment
 
I got my new propane forge setup from Atlas Knife. Great little forge. Though there is a learning curve on getting my heat treat right. I posted more on the forge in the Main Forum. I also started on making a fuller tool. Here are the parts. The hard part was getting the drill bit cut so I could use it as the cutting instrument for the fuller tool. I'll post more later when I have it assembled.

 
Good morning Sean, sorry for the late reply. First give you wife our best wishes, family first always. I am in no hurry, I just finally got my knife done to a point that I can start the sheath. I went through 2 sets of handles before I got to this point. I'll post so.e pictures later today. The wife and I have both had the Wuhan flu and at work we are still having a tough time recovering production which has been taking most of my energy just to get through the week.
 
Good morning Sean, sorry for the late reply. First give you wife our best wishes, family first always. I am in no hurry, I just finally got my knife done to a point that I can start the sheath. I went through 2 sets of handles before I got to this point. I'll post so.e pictures later today. The wife and I have both had the Wuhan flu and at work we are still having a tough time recovering production which has been taking most of my energy just to get through the week.

Thanks Fred. I'll let my wife know. She is in a physical re-hab facility right now. So I'm visiting her daily.

Sorry to hear you and your wife had the flu. Glad to know you've recovered. I'm making slow progress. I'm scrapping the idea of a fuller for now. I just don't have the right tools. The fuller tool I've been attempting to make isn't turning out very well.

So I'll be working on the heat treat and handles this week. Hopefully I'll be ready to start on the sheath next week. I'll post some pictures later today as well.

Also want to add I'll be out of town this next weekend for a funeral. Leaving Friday afternoon and back Monday. So unfortunately that will be cutting into my time as well.
 
Finally ready to make the sheath, blade is forged 6150, handle is desert ironwood. I started out with some curly maple that unfortunately kept clogging my sandpaper and apparently had not properly hardened when I stabilized it, off it came and I grabbed a set of cherry scales, again unfortunately from the same batch and even thou I reheated it for 2 hours it still felt sticky so I opted for some good ol' ironwood, so finally the handle is done and on to the sheath.
Finally.jpgFinally2.jpg
 
Finally ready to make the sheath, blade is forged 6150, handle is desert ironwood. I started out with some curly maple that unfortunately kept clogging my sandpaper and apparently had not properly hardened when I stabilized it, off it came and I grabbed a set of cherry scales, again unfortunately from the same batch and even thou I reheated it for 2 hours it still felt sticky so I opted for some good ol' ironwood, so finally the handle is done and on to the sheath.
View attachment 80007View attachment 80008
Nice!
 
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