Another mill minimum question

Absinthe said:
Picture?
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:D

Did you want a picture of anything in particular? Or will a meme suffice?
be1b4fd1b02096a12046fdf615c01113.jpg


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Smurf masher said:
Yeah I worked as a mechanic at my dads MOT garage for 2 years in my 20's. Did a fair bit of welding. enough to know I can do it fine if I take my time and focus.
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Gotcha.

Make sure you wipe your parts down with a solvent (I use acetone or NONCHLORINATED brake cleaner) before you weld. The parts are probably going to have oil on them to inhibit rust. Especially if you're TIG or MIG welding. FCAW and stick are a lot more tolerant to contamination like that.

I recommend welding out both sides of the joints. Where you can, burn the welds in fairly hot. Looks like the steel is plenty thick enough that you won't have trouble with burn-through (unless you're trying to). Prioritize good penetration. Especially if you plan to grind the welds down. Buy some anti-spatter spray. Makes clean up way easier.

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52 Ford said:
Gotcha.

Make sure you wipe your parts down with a solvent (I use acetone or NONCHLORINATED brake cleaner) before you weld. The parts are probably going to have oil on them to inhibit rust. Especially if you're TIG or MIG welding. FCAW and stick are a lot more tolerant to contamination like that.

I recommend welding out both sides of the joints. Where you can, burn the welds in fairly hot. Looks like the steel is plenty thick enough that you won't have trouble with burn-through (unless you're trying to). Prioritize good penetration. Especially if you plan to grind the welds down. Buy some anti-spatter spray. Makes clean up way easier.

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You are a bonified flood of knowledge. Thank you! and yes I will be TIG welding and I always prioritise good penetration ;)
 
Smurf masher said:
Any pictures i had from 20 years ago are on some laptop in the dump. I loved being a mechanic, except it was working under my dad, who is a tad.. well he's me but older. And we clashed a lot with him as my boss. I mean we had a 30 minute row about clockwise or anti clockwise screwing in of nuts on car wheels once. View attachment 80873
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LOL Depends on the car, BUT if it has "knock off" wheels, I believe they're counterclockwise on one side and clockwise on the other. Not always, though.

Here's a picture of a 65 Corvette with knock off wheels. The three pointed bit in the middle is actually a big nut that holds the wheel on. The three "wings" are there so you can loosen or tighten the nut with a hammer - usually made of lead, I think.

The handedness of the threads is such that the wheels would tighten as you go down the road... I dunno. I'd rather have a more than than nut holding my wheels on. I've seen plenty of vehicles missing lug nuts.
58f5c7d0af7da2466c90bb8605fab7e3.jpg


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52 Ford said:
LOL Depends on the car, BUT if it has "knock off" wheels, I believe they're counterclockwise on one side and clockwise on the other. Not always, though.

Here's a picture of a 65 Corvette with knock off wheels. The three pointed bit in the middle is actually a big nut that holds the wheel on. The three "wings" are there so you can loosen or tighten the nut with a hammer - usually made of lead, I think.

The handedness of the threads is such that the wheels would tighten as you go down the road... I dunno. I'd rather have a more than than nut holding my wheels on. I've seen plenty of vehicles missing lug nuts.
58f5c7d0af7da2466c90bb8605fab7e3.jpg


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Now i'm older and wiser, I know my dad probabaly was right (clockwise) but I felt his logic that the wheel tightens the nuts as they spin better if put in clockwise to this day is a mystery answer to me. I don't see the logic. But.. he's normally right on most things, even if his explanation as to why might be wrong.

If you are talking single large nuts then yeah.. for sure they would be different on each side to ensure they don't spin loose on one side with centrapetal force. They are big enough that they may actually loosen pretty fast if the wheel spins in the direction that the nuts loosen.

But my dad and me were arguing about transit vans.. and the threads were the same direction on every single wheel. He was on about the ORDER the nuts were put in..
 
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Smurf masher said:
Now i'm older and wiser, I know my dad probabaly was right (clockwise) but I felt his logic that the wheel tightens the nuts as they spin better if put in clockwise to this day is a mysery answer to me. I don't see the logic. But.. he;s normally right on most things, even if his explanation as to why might be wrong.

If you are talking single large nuts then yeah.. for sure they would be different on each side to ensure they don't spin loose on one side with centrapetal force. They are big enough that they may actually loosen pretty fast if the wheel spins in the direction that the nuts loosen.

But my dad and me were arguing about transit vans.. and the threads were the same direction on every single wheel. He was on about the ORDER the nuts were put in..
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LOL

As far as I know, it's just because right hand threaded fasteners are more common. I'm pretry sure most torque wrenches are only calibrated to tighten in the clockwise direction. (You ARE using a torque wrench on your lug nuts, RIGHT? :D )

The exception being "beam" type torque wrenches and maybe digital torque wrenches.

Edit: ohhhh... I see what you mean. I run the lug nuts up with cordless impact or a drill in a star so the wheel is just seated on the hub, then torque with a torque wrench in a similar star pattern. Works for me

If it's a tractor or something, I just run them on with an air impact and maybe check them with a big breaker bar.

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52 Ford said:
LOL

As far as I know, it's just because right hand threaded fasteners are more common. I'm pretry sure most torque wrenches are only calibrated to tighten in the clockwise direction. (You ARE using a torque wrench on your lug nuts, RIGHT? :D )

The exception being "beam" type torque wrenches and maybe digital torque wrenches.


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Oh yeah we did! But you see every single bolt was being tightened clockwise. What he was yelling about was the order the nuts were put in.. So you start with the top nut tighten it clockwise, then you do the next bolt to the right again tightening cloockwise. All were done clockwise in terms of twist, but I was puting the bolts in 12, 11,10, etc. not 12, 1, 2, 3 etc.
 
Smurf masher said:
Any pictures i had from 20 years ago are on some laptop in the dump. I loved being a mechanic, except it was working under my dad, who is a tad.. well he's me but older. And we clashed a lot with him as my boss. I mean we had a 30 minute row about clockwise or anti clockwise screwing in of nuts on car wheels once. View attachment 80873
Click to expand...
I meant of your grinder welded together :)

Yeah, working for family ... best thing about it is your boss is your family. Worst thing about it.. well, your boss is your family.

Think it was bad working for "your dad" imagine working for "his son" :) Boy! That guy! Am I right? :)

I used to have my own business (one man show Locksmith and I did house calls, emergencies, and lockouts in the middle of nowhere). But still I would say things like "I can't go any lower or the accountant will complain to the boss and he'll give me a rash of 5h17" Or, "I shouldn't give it to you this low, the boss will be pissed and he can be a prick sometimes." I even ran a call on Thanksgiving night, and while the clients were very apologetic, I told them not to worry about it because "The boss decides who has to run the calls, and tonight he chose me. What a hard@$$, right?"

Funny thing, the first time I did it was kind of as a joke. But no one ever questioned whether I was a one man shop, or apparently got the joke :) I kept waiting for someone to say "But aren't you the boss?" But that never happened. :) I didn't like to use "the boss" like that too much. Usually, if it were about a specific product not being in stock, or being a special order, I would blame "my purchaser". When discussions of prices and money came up, I would blame "the accountant" or once I even put it off on "Well the CFO sets the prices, and I only have a 10% leeway in the field." Never asked me who was my CFO and could they contact them during business hours sometime to negotiate some better price, "because they would be sending me sooooo much business" ... I got the idea from one of the many "sales" guys trying to sell me advertising or cobalt hole saws or whatever. When hole saw guy called and asked to speak with someone in purchasing. But when the Tops guy called, he wanted to know who to speak to about advertising. I realized people are used to "roles" rather than specific people by name. I even had a bus driver stiff me with a rubber check. When I sent a formal complaint to the company's owner they contacted me asking for "May I speak to someone in Accounts-Receivable?"

I wrote an interesting essay about this, something like "Don't Let Your Technician Answer the Phone". It explained that you could maintain an air of professionalism by changing hats as appropriate. When you answer the phone you are the receptionist. There are rules to each role, the receptionist can schedule jobs, can't really answer technical questions, can give out only approved pricing like trip charge, mileage, hourly rate, and fixed rate items. And, can't carry on long conversations. Best of all, the receptionist, can't make purchasing decisions, so all he can do is take a message for the correct department to get back to sales persons. If the technician needs to call someone back, perhaps to give them some technical advice, or ask more pointed technical questions then they have the rules of a technician (But also can call when not in the middle of working on another customer's job) "My technician is currently on a job, can I have him give you a call when he is done to ask you blah, blah, blah" or "I can have the technician explain how to use that piece of hardware when he is done with his current assignment. I will have him call you". It was specific to that particular industry in its examples, but it was generic enough in concept that it could be adapted to others. I may take some time and re-write it one day.
 
Absinthe said:
I meant of your grinder welded together :)

Yeah, working for family ... best thing about it is your boss is your family. Worst thing about it.. well, your boss is your family.

Think it was bad working for "your dad" imagine working for "his son" :) Boy! That guy! Am I right? :)

I used to have my own business (one man show Locksmith and I did house calls, emergencies, and lockouts in the middle of nowhere). But still I would say things like "I can't go any lower or the accountant will complain to the boss and he'll give me a rash of 5h17" Or, "I shouldn't give it to you this low, the boss will be pissed and he can be a prick sometimes." I even ran a call on Thanksgiving night, and while the clients were very apologetic, I told them not to worry about it because "The boss decides who has to run the calls, and tonight he chose me. What a hard@$$, right?"

Funny thing, the first time I did it was kind of as a joke. But no one ever questioned whether I was a one man shop, or apparently got the joke :) I kept waiting for someone to say "But aren't you the boss?" But that never happened. :) I didn't like to use "the boss" like that too much. Usually, if it were about a specific product not being in stock, or being a special order, I would blame "my purchaser". When discussions of prices and money came up, I would blame "the accountant" or once I even put it off on "Well the CFO sets the prices, and I only have a 10% leeway in the field." Never asked me who was my CFO and could they contact them during business hours sometime to negotiate some better price, "because they would be sending me sooooo much business" ... I got the idea from one of the many "sales" guys trying to sell me advertising or cobalt hole saws or whatever. When hole saw guy called and asked to speak with someone in purchasing. But when the Tops guy called, he wanted to know who to speak to about advertising. I realized people are used to "roles" rather than specific people by name. I even had a bus driver stiff me with a rubber check. When I sent a formal complaint to the company's owner they contacted me asking for "May I speak to someone in Accounts-Receivable?"

I wrote an interesting essay about this, something like "Don't Let Your Technician Answer the Phone". It explained that you could maintain an air of professionalism by changing hats as appropriate. When you answer the phone you are the receptionist. There are rules to each role, the receptionist can schedule jobs, can't really answer technical questions, can give out only approved pricing like trip charge, mileage, hourly rate, and fixed rate items. And, can't carry on long conversations. Best of all, the receptionist, can't make purchasing decisions, so all he can do is take a message for the correct department to get back to sales persons. If the technician needs to call someone back, perhaps to give them some technical advice, or ask more pointed technical questions then they have the rules of a technician (But also can call when not in the middle of working on another customer's job) "My technician is currently on a job, can I have him give you a call when he is done to ask you blah, blah, blah" or "I can have the technician explain how to use that piece of hardware when he is done with his current assignment. I will have him call you". It was specific to that particular industry in its examples, but it was generic enough in concept that it could be adapted to others. I may take some time and re-write it one day.
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As for the grinder put together. I havent one mine yet, everything is going into a locked toy box once it arrives (big yellow storage) until I can move home.
"Think it was bad working for "your dad" imagine working for "his son" :) Boy! That guy! Am I right? :)" Neither of us enjoyed the experience. All my family are self employed and run their own businesses, plumbers, builders, mechanics, I was the first to go to uni and work in an office job for 20 years. And as soon as I was financially comfortable I got the hell out and now work for myself. I'm not good with authority, well I am.. as long as the "authority" is competant and smart. If they are dumber than me I let them know they are, or go around them and implement fixes they should have done. This does not make you popular with people you need to ass kiss to move up.

I worked for Ricoh and Total Oil wanted a follow the sun support package (phone and global support 24/7), my boss said we didn't do one. I thought this was mental as Ricoh are an international company albeit made up of lots of smaller almost independent divisions. So I phoned up a load of divisions and bartered agreements with 3 that covered the required timezones, then called our american 24/7 emergency switchboard and asked if they would redirect calls to one of the 3 divisions depending on the time the client called. They said yes, I cobbled together a support contract and got our contract guys to add the legalise. My boss was not keen, and was very dismissive, and reluctantly approved my meeting with Total in Paris. I flew over on my own, got grilled by 6 execs, pulled it off, and they signed up to a 50k yearly support package for 3 years. My job was nothing to do with what I explained above, I was there to manage the quality of tier 3 support in Holland.

My reward? She promoted the guy I recruited under me, made him my boss. (he was shit, but fun to drink with, and would follow her lead, and give her the glory)

But here is a pic of the grinder made by someone else. 1653480889235.png
 

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Smurf masher said:
As for the grinder put together. I havent one mine yet, everything is going into a locked toy box (big yellow storage) until I can move home.
"Think it was bad working for "your dad" imagine working for "his son" :) Boy! That guy! Am I right? :)" Neither of us enjoyed the experience. All my family are self employed and run their own businesses, plumbers, builders, mechanics, I was the first to go to uni and work in an office job for 20 years. And as soon as I was financially comfortable I got the hell out and now work for myself. I'm not good with authority, well I am.. as long as the "authority" is competant and smart. If they are dumber than me I let them know they are, or go around them and implement fixes they should have done. This does not make you popular with people you need to ass kiss to move up.

I worked for Ricoh and Total Oil wanted a follow the sun support package (phone and global support 24/7), my boss said we didn't do one. I thought this was mental as Ricoh are an international company albeit made up of lots of smaller almost independent divisions. So I phoned up a load of divisions and bartered agreements with 3 that covered the required timezones, then called our american 24/7 emergency switchboard and asked if they would redirect calls to one of the 3 divisions depending on the time the client called. They said yes, I cobbled together a support contract and got our contract guys to add the legalise. My boss was not keen, and was very dismissive, and reluctantly approved my meeting with Total in Paris. I flew over on my own, got grilled by 6 execs, pulled it off, and they signed up to a 50k yearly support package for 3 years. My job was nothing to do with what I explained above, I was there to manage the quality of tier 3 support in Holland.

My reward? She promoted the guy I recruited under me, made him my boss. (he was shit, but fun to drink with, and would follow her lead, and give her the glory)

But here is a pic of the grinder made by someone else. View attachment 80878
Click to expand...
I've seen them welded up :) just looking forward to seeing yours. You made it sound like it was already done. My bad. :)

I am white collar for now. But always have something else going on. The corporate world is about paying someone just enough that they won't quit, so that they work just enough that you won't fire them.

Working for yourself is awesome, but for now I will live with the stability of my corporate overlords.
 
Absinthe said:
I've seen them welded up :) just looking forward to seeing yours. You made it sound like it was already done. My bad. :)

I am white collar for now. But always have something else going on. The corporate world is about paying someone just enough that they won't quit, so that they work just enough that you won't fire them.

Working for yourself is awesome, but for now I will live with the stability of my corporate overlords.
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I'm very bitter about the corporate world and my current business has been utterly wrecked by corporate policy changes beyond my control. I hope that Blacksmithing will be truly a independent source of income so even if I ever do go fully back to working for the man, I can quit if I want and have some cash flow to keep me going.
 
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Smurf masher said:
I'm very bitter about the corporate world and my current business has been utterly wrecked by Microsofts "coffee meeting" policy changes. I hope that Blacksmithing will be truly a independent source of income so even if I ever do go fully back to working for the man, I can quit if I want and have some cash flow to keep me going.
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Fill a niche and hope for the best. I am not sure everyone can go out and sell a $1200 chef's knife like Jason Knight. Especially in a kilt. :) I would be concerned that with many suppliers I have spoken to, a lot of them complain that the popularity of FIF is giving them plenty of business and causing supply chain issues. This suggests that there are many a n00b trying to hang up their shingle as "bladesmiths", "knife makers", "blacksmiths" and so forth. What also, with, the growth of the "maker movement" in general, many are getting into trades on their own that were previously much lower in populace. From having worked several different verticals, I have seen one common happening with this. There is always a huge "price race to the bottom". Too many people have no idea how to price their goods, or think they have to be the lowest price around, or simply feel that since they don't "need" the income, don't care about devaluing a product that the Walmart/Ikea trained general buying public usually doesn't understand why it has a high cost in the first place.

At some point I would like to make a good enough product to sell, at least enough to pay for my "hobby". I would also love to find a proper market for it. And I would like to make the things I like to make, rather than have to make a bunch of "bread and butter items" that I hate but will "pay the bills". I do not want any personal bills depending on my ability to bring in income with this hobby. So if I ever get to where I am making money with it, then it can enhance my tool choices, or fund the next hobby venture :) But that's me. Good luck with your goals.

I was 16 the last time I had the liberty to freely quit a job because I was unhappy. I have never since felt the ability to do that without already having another lined up. You describe a lofty goal, may you reach it successfully!
 
Absinthe said:
Fill a niche and hope for the best. I am not sure everyone can go out and sell a $1200 chef's knife like Jason Knight. Especially in a kilt. :) I would be concerned that with many suppliers I have spoken to, a lot of them complain that the popularity of FIF is giving them plenty of business and causing supply chain issues. This suggests that there are many a n00b trying to hang up their shingle as "bladesmiths", "knife makers", "blacksmiths" and so forth. What also, with, the growth of the "maker movement" in general, many are getting into trades on their own that were previously much lower in populace. From having worked several different verticals, I have seen one common happening with this. There is always a huge "price race to the bottom". Too many people have no idea how to price their goods, or think they have to be the lowest price around, or simply feel that since they don't "need" the income, don't care about devaluing a product that the Walmart/Ikea trained general buying public usually doesn't understand why it has a high cost in the first place.

At some point I would like to make a good enough product to sell, at least enough to pay for my "hobby". I would also love to find a proper market for it. And I would like to make the things I like to make, rather than have to make a bunch of "bread and butter items" that I hate but will "pay the bills". I do not want any personal bills depending on my ability to bring in income with this hobby. So if I ever get to where I am making money with it, then it can enhance my tool choices, or fund the next hobby venture :) But that's me. Good luck with your goals.

I was 16 the last time I had the liberty to freely quit a job because I was unhappy. I have never since felt the ability to do that without already having another lined up. You describe a lofty goal, may you reach it successfully!
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I am lucky enough to have that option. I make Minecraft maps and become a microsoft partner in 2017. I recruited 50 people to work with me, and recruited teams to produce maps and products which I managed and led. I ultimately got the business to a point where I could hire someone to do my role and they manage the pipeline and I basically just need to do the accounts and pay everyone, plus release a few decent maps of my own every now and then. This is one example.

I made this map completely on my own:

But this market is now saturated and further growth is impossible, now treading water on residuals from 300 older items we released. New items make money but not enough to stop that earning curve going down over time. So I have a year on decent wages to create a new revenue stream, and maybe 2 years of enough cash to just about live on. This should be enough time to "get gud" and make some great knives free of "needing" the cash, so i'll be a perfectionist with really good steels and handle materials. I'll also be making fire pits and other items that will sell for a bit of "bread and butter". I'm in a very lucky position but, trust me I went through hell to get to this point and it was NOT easy.

I just hope I have enough hope and passion left in me to make this a success as well. I never do things by halves, I get very tunnel visioned and get things done. Just hopefully not to the detriment to my marriage, which has been tough during the first years of running my own business.

Hopefully making the best I can make, will result in high quality sort after knives that I can justify a premium on. I won't just be doing grinding reduction, I'll be forging and making damascus and stainless steel damascus. So I will need that grinder, but I intend to combine forging with grinding reduction. Nothing wrong with grinding from a cutout blank, but I love the art of forging and want to get knives that when hammered out really just need a couple of mill tidying of the profile and scale removal. (not an option if I do pattern damascus those will need hard grinding to preserve the pattern)

I'll certainly need the advice and harsh critique of the people in this forum to get to that standard/dream level. My dream level is this:

https://www.vanzantenmessen.nl/

https://www.youtube.com/c/johanvanzanten
 
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Smurf masher said:
I am lucky enough to have that option. I make Minecraft maps and become a microsoft partner in 2017. I recruited 50 people to work with me, and recruited teams to produce maps and products which I managed and led. I ultimately got the business to a point where I could hire someone to do my role and they manage the pipeline and I basically just need to do the accounts and pay everyone, plus release a few decent maps of my own every now and then. This is one example.

I made this map completely on my own:

But this market is now saturated and further growth is impossible, now treading water on residuals from 300 older items we released. New items make money but not enough to stop that earning curve going down over time. So I have a year on decent wages to create a new revenue stream, and maybe 2 years of enough cash to just about live on. This should be enough time to "get gud" and make some great knives free of "needing" the cash, so i'll be a perfectionist with really good steels and handle materials. I'll also be making fire pits and other items that will sell for a bit of "bread and butter". I'm in a very lucky position but, trust me I went through hell to get to this point and it was NOT easy.

I just hope I have enough hope and passion left in me to make this a success as well. I never do things by halves, I get very tunnel visioned and get things done. Just hopefully not to the detriment to my marriage, which has been tough during the first years of running my own business.

Hopefully making the best I can make, will result in high quality sort after knives that I can justify a premium on. I won't just be doing grinding reduction, I'll be forging and making damascus and stainless steel damascus. So I will need that grinder, but I intend to combine forging with grinding reduction. Nothing wrong with grinding from a cutout blank, but I love the art of forging and want to get knives that when hammered out really just need a couple of mill tidying of the profile and scale removal. (not an option if I do pattern damascus those will need hard grinding to preserve the pattern)

I'll certainly need the advice and harsh critique of the people in this forum to get to that standard/dream level. My dream level is this:

https://www.vanzantenmessen.nl/

https://www.youtube.com/c/johanvanzanten
Click to expand...
Sounds great
 
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