View Full Version : ATP 641 Anti-scale
03-26-2010, 07:04 PM
Anyone have any experience using this anti-scale? Im going to be heat treating some ATS-34 here soon and ordered some of this from Brownells to use, I will be oil quenching because I am already set up for it, and I don't mind the mess(plus I'm the adventurous type, :p). My main concern is application, I have heard mixed things about thinning it and such, any input would be appreciated.
I have been using it on 01 for over a year now. Works great for me. I recently tried it on A2 and it did well on it also, at 1775°. My first batch from Brownells did not want to coat the blades well. I complained to them, and they sent a new jar of it. Worked great. I found that the first jar was too thin, and thats why it did not coat as it should. Now I am using the newer batch first, then using the too thin batch as a second coat. With the 01, most of it pops off in the quench. With the A2 it pops off as the blade cools. I am well satisfied with it.
Never used it but sounds like a good product. Frosstyx, I would like to know how it works on the ATS- 34. LRB, how many blades do you get from a jar? It sounds like a good replacement for foil if it will do many blades.
I am thinking it is a pint jar. It is about the consistancy of latex paint. I use two coats on my blades. Your guess is as good as mine as to how far it will go. I really don't know if it's better than foil. I've never used foil, but I would think it easier. I am getting minor decarb and light etching with the A2 soaking 45 minutes at 1775°. The decarb and etching are about .001 to .002 deep with the A2, but the 01 comes out with only surface discolorization. You would just have to try it and make your own evaluation at high temp use. Were it me, I would use three coats on the ATS-34. I am going to try three on the next A2 blades. Possibly this week.
03-28-2010, 09:01 PM
I've been using th AO smith paint. I've been pretty happy with it but it gets air bubbles in it real easy and it's really pricey. I think I'm going to switch to the Brownells or the Rose Mill powder Tracy carries.
03-29-2010, 09:33 PM
It is pint jars, and I will also be doing a few in ATS-34 in the coming week or so. I will post my findings here, Im going to also use it on my 1075 first to get a taste for it. As far as how long it will last, Im guessing it will be very cost effective if it works for replacing foil... its only $15 from Brownell's
05-13-2010, 12:18 AM
Just wanted to let you guys know, I have used since used the atp on some ats-34, and some 1080, the 1080 I had no scale at all to remove but it was slightly discolored, I was able to go straight to 220 and then to finishing the blades. The ats-34 was a little tougher, I think you need about 4 coats for it to be completely effective on preventing decarb, it only takes about 10 minutes per coat to dry(5 if you hang em in the sun or in front of a fan) and I tried 2 coats on the last batch and got a good bit of decarb I had to work out but I have confidence that this stuff will work great if 4 coats are applied(3 would prob do it but Imma use 4). This was heating the steel to 1920f and oil quenching then I immediately put them in dry ice which didnt seem to matter as far as getting the atp off, it came right off with some warm water and a scotch brite pad after the temper cycles were complete. I will keep you guys updated as I have a few ats-34 blades almost ready for HT(prob next week), I dont like doing less than 3 or more at a time as the dry ice aint cheap, lol. I will also get some pics of the next batch...
05-14-2010, 09:52 AM
Fross - on a slightly different tangent - I am interested in how you are set up to oil quench ATS-34? I plate quench it now and have considered oil. Im sure the paintable anti-scale is part of the deal since I couldn't figure out how to get it our of the foil quick enough....
05-14-2010, 12:07 PM
I was already set up to oil quench o1 and the like so I decided to give it a shot. I simply use a batch of used peanut oil as my quenchant. I am in the process of making a new quench tank though, one that recirculates. I usually heat the oil by dropping a piece of heated mild steel into the tank. A lot of people have complained about deflection or bowing of the steel when it is oil quenched. I just made sure my grinds were as even as I can get em and I leave about .01" of steel so that I can get rid of any slight pitting. While not have a rockwell tester I cant tell you for sure what the exact hardness is, I can tell you that it is brittle as heck when right out of the quench. I also do an immediate cryo in dry ice, I do not snap temper... its a risk but if you have everything else right there should be no problems. I wash the anti-scale off when I am finished with all the temper cycles, I usually put the blade in the dry ice once ofter quench and 2 more times after that, each time following a temper cycle until the 3rd temper.
The ATP-641 is rated above 2200*f so there is not a problem there, the biggest problem is getting it on thick enough and the blades have to be SUPER CLEAN or it wont stick. I will let you know how it goes next week when I process a few more blades, I like to have at least 3-5 blades ready for ht at a time but chances are it will only be 2 cause I gots no time.
05-18-2010, 03:47 AM
I'm looking forward hearing from you how the next ats-34 batch turned out. I'm after some good anti scale product for cpm 154.
Do you have any idea on how thick the decarb layer was on the ats-34 you did earlier?
08-20-2010, 08:33 AM
Thanks to all for the info! I tried this coating awhile back on ATS-34 and had problems with scale. But after reading your info I was not getting this stuff on thick enough. I have since pulled my jar out of the closet to give it another try! Getting ready to heat treat a kitchen knife made from 154cm and I have four coats on the blade. Waiting for cooler weather to run my furnace. I will post my results when finished, hope it works.
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