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Raymond Richard
08-29-2009, 12:08 PM
Here's a project I started about a month ago but due to way to hot weather and the right hand being a problem I decided to give the forging a rest. The first picture is where I decided to stop. Second picture was started today. Its the first time I have attempted a socket. A customer and also a good friend Eli asked if I ever did a spear. I told him flat out, NO. Anyway it was something stuck in the back of my mind and I decided to let it out. Right now I need to get back out to the shop and use more of the free propane before Peter and his dad come pick it up. :D I plan to add captions to the pictures eventually.


http://www.hawknknives.com/forums/IMG_1408.JPG

Ever since I saw Tai Goo's bush knives I've had an interest in trying to forge a socket plus I thought it would be the idea way to mount a spear head. I do wish now I had taken a few pictures of this process. As with anything I try forging for the first time there's a lot of trial and error. Hopefully I'll retain a little from doing the socket on this one.

http://www.hawknknives.com/forums/IMG_1409.JPG

In this picture I stretched out what is going to be the blade and I also added some distal taper to it.

http://www.hawknknives.com/forums/IMG_1410.JPG

I'm starting to forge in the bevel bevel. The hammer I'm using was at one time a standard 4 lb sledge that I converted with the grinder to form a fat cross peen. If I were using a regular flat or slightly rounded hammer the curve in the blade will be even greater. When I start forging the bevel on the other side this curve will straighten out somewhat.

http://www.hawknknives.com/forums/IMG_1411.JPG

I'd just heated up the work in this photo and still hammering the bevel.

http://www.hawknknives.com/forums/IMG_1412.JPG

Working on the point. After I got the point more to my liking I went back to forging in the bevels. I don't try to forge bevels or anything else the first go round. I do a little at a time. This way I feel I have more control and if I do screw something up its easier to correct.

http://www.hawknknives.com/forums/IMG_1415.JPG

Your probably wondering what I'm doing here. I'm working on the profile here. I'm trying to get down low enough so I can see what I'm doing. Straightening up is a different story.

http://www.hawknknives.com/forums/IMG_1418.JPG

Uncle Ray and his thing. I'll let it cool down all the way. I'll then take a good look at it and figure out what needs to be done next. I could possibly go to the grinder and remove a high spot or two and get it ready for another forging session.

ddavelarsen
08-29-2009, 12:30 PM
That is some kinda "thang" Ray!... :D

Looking forward to this one. How will you center the blade over its socket?

Peter Killgore
08-29-2009, 12:36 PM
Hey Ray,

the "thing" looks pretty cool. If you can, post more pics as you go along. I want to see how it turns out. Go ahead and use the propane. It's the least I can do for yesterday

Peter

Raymond Richard
08-29-2009, 12:37 PM
Dave, Beats the heck out of me. :D I've still got a fair amount to go on it so hopefully I'll figure it out when I get there. Some of these new old things take a while to figure out :D As it is right now its not to far off.

Bruce Bump
08-29-2009, 02:37 PM
It looks like an African Frog Spear Ray. Cant wait to see.

Raymond Richard
08-29-2009, 02:40 PM
Peter, Nice surprise seeing you here! I decided to not go any further with the forging today. I don't want to push my hand and arm much more today. I've got a surprise waiting for you when you come by.

Raymond Richard
08-29-2009, 02:42 PM
It looks like an African Frog Spear Ray. Cant wait to see.

Bruce, You need a big spear for them African Frog's.

stabber
08-29-2009, 03:01 PM
Too Cool Ray!! I love Glowing red hot steel!!!!2thumbs

I put the same response on your Double post Ray:D

Eli Gautreaux
08-29-2009, 06:09 PM
Awesome Ray, I'm glad you jumped into this one --- can't wait to see what you have in mind! Where are you going to get the wood for the shaft??? Got any wood from one of those old buggies???

Raymond Richard
08-29-2009, 06:22 PM
Awesome Ray, I'm glad you jumped into this one --- can't wait to see what you have in mind! Where are you going to get the wood for the shaft??? Got any wood from one of those old buggies???

Eli, I really wasn't going to supply the shaft. I figure who ever ended up with it could come up with a shaft for it. It would sure make it simpler to ship without. Another thought I had is a person could just pack the head and if they wanted it as a spear they could use a branch from a tree.

John Barker
08-29-2009, 06:25 PM
That looks really cool. Watch those toes!
-John

Karl B. Andersen
09-02-2009, 07:13 PM
Nice stuff, Ray.

Raymond Richard
09-02-2009, 09:05 PM
Nice stuff, Ray.

Karl, Good to see you around!

Raymond Richard
09-20-2009, 06:03 PM
I'd pretty much forgotten about the spear head until I spotted it yesterday. Made some pretty good progress. Here's what it looks like now.

http://www.hawknknives.com/forums/IMG_1497.JPG

http://www.hawknknives.com/forums/IMG_1501.JPG

Mike Turner
09-20-2009, 06:49 PM
Ray I love your forging shoes 2thumbs :eek: man if I tried that I would burn my feet up for sure.

Can't wait to see this finished.

jmforge
09-20-2009, 07:48 PM
Ray I love your forging shoes 2thumbs :eek: man if I tried that I would burn my feet up for sure.

Can't wait to see this finished.

Ray forging in mandals 2thumbs

Peter Killgore
09-20-2009, 09:29 PM
Man that is looking nice. I can already tell it's going to look amazing when it's finished. Have you made plans for the frog hunt yet?:D

Raymond Richard
09-20-2009, 09:48 PM
Man that is looking nice. I can already tell it's going to look amazing when it's finished. Have you made plans for the frog hunt yet?:D

Peter, This is a hog spear! :D

Eli Gautreaux
09-21-2009, 11:24 AM
Ray, I'm so glad you stumbled upon this one again :)

I saw Ray's shop, and I was at least 40-50 blades "in progress." All at different levels of progress, but it's easy to see how he can overlook a particular one.


Ray, AFTER the spear, and AFTER the rebar collab with Ken, you need to get on that little spike hawk we looked at :)

Raymond Richard
09-21-2009, 12:13 PM
Ray, I'm so glad you stumbled upon this one again :)

I saw Ray's shop, and I was at least 40-50 blades "in progress." All at different levels of progress, but it's easy to see how he can overlook a particular one.


Ray, AFTER the spear, and AFTER the rebar collab with Ken, you need to get on that little spike hawk we looked at :)

Slow down Eli! I need to finish these two first. :D

I took a closer look at the spear head this morning. Hopefully I can adjust the point more to where it needs to be with just the hammer.

http://www.hawknknives.com/forums/IMG_1502.JPG

Eli Gautreaux
09-21-2009, 12:33 PM
That's amazing Ray, I'm so impressed with what you can do with just the hammer.

Raymond Richard
09-21-2009, 12:45 PM
That's amazing Ray, I'm so impressed with what you can do with just the hammer.

http://www.hawknknives.com/forums/IMG_1502.JPG

Eli, It still blows me away to. Probably why I like forging so much. 2thumbs

I got the spine straightened out and the point is now in the ball park.

http://www.hawknknives.com/forums/IMG_1505.JPG

Raymond Richard
09-25-2009, 12:31 PM
Here's a picture of the spear head which is now done except for a handle of some sort. I was wanting to get to work on it this morning but its just to cold in the shop so I lite up the forge instead. The picture is of me and my brother Gil back when we were kids with one of our favorite toys. The little skinner is for my friend James. Its almost done. Both projects need warmer temps so maybe later this afternoon.

http://www.hawknknives.com/forums/IMG_1522.JPG

Eli Gautreaux
09-25-2009, 01:36 PM
Looks great Ray, glad to see you are thinking about the handle on the spear.

That's one cool photo!

Peter Killgore
09-25-2009, 04:17 PM
That's a good looking spear head and a neat skinner. What is the handle on the skinner?
Also, where can I get a "toy" like in the picture? lol

J.Chappell
09-25-2009, 04:37 PM
I have to say that the knife looks just fantastic! I'm sure it will feel even better in my hand. I like it already and I dont even have it yet, lol. Thanks Ray, I had an idea and like always you knew exactly what to do with it.

Ray I'll have to give everyone a field report on my new knife once I get it and it sees some hours in the field!


J.

Eli Gautreaux
09-25-2009, 06:39 PM
Congrats J, I bet it performs like a champp in the field...

Raymond Richard
09-25-2009, 08:45 PM
I have to say that the knife looks just fantastic! I'm sure it will feel even better in my hand. I like it already and I dont even have it yet, lol. Thanks Ray, I had an idea and like always you knew exactly what to do with it.

Ray I'll have to give everyone a field report on my new knife once I get it and it sees some hours in the field!


J.

Hey James, Glad to hear your liking what your seeing. I had to do the Rancher Ray thing today so the knife got pushed back a few hours. I finally tricked a steer into going in the loading shoot. I gave a call to the new owner to come and get him. Had some problems getting it loaded up but its gone now. Now the mother is hanging about by the back of my shop mooing as load as she can. New due date for completion of the knife
will be sometime tomorrow.

Peter, The handle is stabilized maple burl. A pretty nice piece of wood.

J.Chappell
09-25-2009, 09:22 PM
Ray,

Take your time as I am never in a rush. I'm just wondering what the handle looks like in person since it looks so good in the pictures!

Hey,

Do you have any pictures of the Bowie that you won with Ray? I'd like to see it!

J.

Raymond Richard
09-25-2009, 10:32 PM
Ray,

Take your time as I am never in a rush. I'm just wondering what the handle looks like in person since it looks so good in the pictures!

Hey,

Do you have any pictures of the Bowie that you won with Ray? I'd like to see it!

J.

James, Its really a nice piece of wood. I think you'll like it better once its in your hand! I'll get a better picture tomorrow after its done. I just JB Welded the guard to the blade and the handle to the guard. I'll let it set over night and get it epoxied when I first go out to the shop.

Here's the knife that won: http://www.hawknknives.com/main_pages/ukids.html

Raymond Richard
09-26-2009, 02:01 PM
Looks great Ray, glad to see you are thinking about the handle on the spear.

That's one cool photo!

I wish Gil remember where the heck we were when that photo was taken. I'm sure it was in the rear at one of the base camps. We didn't see timbers like that out in the field. We'd cut down small trees with our machetes and use them for bunker building.

Eli, Here's where its at now. I'll start to contour the handle next. This handle is pretty much a practice piece but I think it will turn out ok. Right now the whole thing is at 18". I'm using a piece of curly maple right now. It will be much darken when its done. How long should a spear handle be? I'm thinking around 6'.

http://www.hawknknives.com/forums/IMG_1532.JPG

http://www.hawknknives.com/forums/IMG_1533.JPG

Eli Gautreaux
09-26-2009, 03:08 PM
Wow Ray, I see what you mean by short handle now. That's really interesting. Are you thinking of something that would be potentially interchangeable --- one that would allow you to go back and forth between a knife handle and spear handle?

BTW, you have some pretty gutsy practice runs --- I would have done a practice run with some cheap yellow pine, not curly maple, lol.

I have no historical basis to say how long a spear should be... But if a guy wantedto use it for sticking hogs, it probably ought to be around 5-6 feet. It's a close quarters sport, and anything too long would likely get in the way and make maneuvering impractical. I think theactual length within the 4-6 foot window depends more on balance and feel, which will be hard to tell until you get a long further.


BTW, speaking of maple and CQC, I used your short sword today to take the head off a copperhead in the backyard, but not before it gave my other bulldog a very fat lip :)

J.Chappell
09-26-2009, 03:26 PM
Ray,

That's fine by me, looking forward to it.

That is one super Bowie Ray. I really like the way you finished off the crown with that simple cap, it looks great! As I have said in the past your knives have a flow that many after years of making never seem to achieve.

J.

Raymond Richard
09-26-2009, 03:37 PM
Wow Ray, I see what you mean by short handle now. That's really interesting. Are you thinking of something that would be potentially interchangeable --- one that would allow you to go back and forth between a knife handle and spear handle?

BTW, you have some pretty gutsy practice runs --- I would have done a practice run with some cheap yellow pine, not curly maple, lol.

I have no historical basis to say how long a spear should be... But if a guy wantedto use it for sticking hogs, it probably ought to be around 5-6 feet. It's a close quarters sport, and anything too long would likely get in the way and make maneuvering impractical. I think theactual length within the 4-6 foot window depends more on balance and feel, which will be hard to tell until you get a long further.

As for the handle. I'm wanting to make the handles interchangeable. Lorien suggest I use set screws in the socket to hold the handles on. I'm thinking along this line.


BTW, speaking of maple and CQC, I used your short sword today to take the head off a copperhead in the backyard, but not before it gave my other bulldog a very fat lip :)

Eli, Didn't you tell me your dogs have been bitten before and are pretty much immune to the copperhead bites? How big was the snake? I hope the head came off with one swip. Any pictures? How's the dog that ate the towel doing?

Eli Gautreaux
09-26-2009, 04:39 PM
Eli, Didn't you tell me your dogs have been bitten before and are pretty much immune to the copperhead bites? How big was the snake? I hope the head came off with one swip. Any pictures? How's the dog that ate the towel doing?


Yeah, she's been bitten tons of times, so I was surprised to see her swell as much as she did. I think it got her just inside the lip. She's fine, just a tad bit lethargic, but she'll sleep it off and be ok.

The head came off in one swipe. The dog dug him up from under a couple inches of brown pine needles, and got a good snap in on him. She tossed him a couple of feet and was about to get him again when I stepped in and finished it with the blade. She didn't like that much, she thought it was her kill :)

The other dog is doing better daily, with plenty of nursing from my wife :rolleyes: I think she thinks he's a 75 pound baby, lol.

Raymond Richard
09-28-2009, 12:19 AM
Eli, How are the dogs doing?

I did some more work on the handle for this thing. I went ahead and did a quick dye job. I'm going to do it darker when I get it finished sanded.

http://www.hawknknives.com/forums/IMG_1542.JPG

http://www.hawknknives.com/forums/IMG_1543.JPG

Eli Gautreaux
09-28-2009, 05:18 AM
That is looking really good!

Eli Gautreaux
09-28-2009, 05:41 PM
Oh yeah, about the dogs...

The snake bit female is all better and back outhunting for more.

The towel eating male is still dripping from his staples, so that's a litle troublesome. They said Wednesday he would get them out, but I'm not sure he's ready. To make things worse we have a trip planned this weekend. I'm not sure Mary will want to leave him at the kennel, you interested in babysitting Ray???

Peter Killgore
09-28-2009, 07:23 PM
Eli, How are the dogs doing?

I did some more work on the handle for this thing. I went ahead and did a quick dye job. I'm going to do it darker when I get it finished sanded.

http://www.hawknknives.com/forums/IMG_1542.JPG

http://www.hawknknives.com/forums/IMG_1543.JPG

OOO LA LA!! That's a jaw dropperJaw Drop I like it. Neat handle design.2thumbs

Raymond Richard
09-29-2009, 10:13 AM
Sunday morning I got out to the shop a few hours before I needed to get prettied up for church. As cold as it was my saving grace would be to lite up the forge and hammer on some steel at least till I got the blood flowing. I decided to start another spear head. This time I sorta had a plan but I soon learned I need to start with a larger piece of steel mainly because of the size of the socket. Here's a few pictures I took along the way.

This picture shows the spear head just before I started forming the socket. The steel I started with was 1 1/4" wide and 3/16" thick. I soon discovered I needed to start with a larger piece to get the socket to turn out how I had planned. I'll try to remember that the next time.

http://www.hawknknives.com/forums/IMG_1547.JPG

I ended up making a drift to shape the socket.

http://www.hawknknives.com/forums/IMG_1548.JPG

I was just starting to shape the socket in this photo.

http://www.hawknknives.com/forums/IMG_1549.JPG

Truing the socket up.

http://www.hawknknives.com/forums/IMG_1562.JPG

This is what it looked like before I heat treated it.

http://www.hawknknives.com/forums/IMG_1563.JPG

Ken Hurst
09-29-2009, 10:32 AM
Mornin Mr. ray --- Now, this spearhead seems to have come out better overall. Is this going to be a trusting spear or one for throwing ? Now that you have turned into a spear maker, guess you'll also have to learn how to select & make shafts for same.:D

Raymond Richard
09-29-2009, 11:59 AM
Mornin Mr. ray --- Now, this spearhead seems to have come out better overall. Is this going to be a trusting spear or one for throwing ? Now that you have turned into a spear maker, guess you'll also have to learn how to select & make shafts for same.:D

Hey Ken, The thing about number 2 spearhead is there's a little more knowledge in my head about forging them. The first one was done to just see if it were something I could make. I just started forging on number 3 this morning but I'm just to sore to continue for at least right now. Now I have a good idea as to what size piece of steel to start with. Everything until now has been guess work. Number 2 will also work as a spear but for right now I'm just going to make a ball handle and be done with it for now.

Raymond Richard
09-29-2009, 08:28 PM
I forged a new addition today. The one on the left is from today, middle one I forged yesterday and started getting it heat treated last night. The one on the far right was the first one. I sure felt like when I forged the 3rd one I had things pretty well figured out.

http://www.hawknknives.com/forums/IMG_1564.JPG

http://www.hawknknives.com/forums/IMG_1565.JPG

Peter Killgore
09-29-2009, 08:48 PM
That's coolcool 1 Do you know if it's legal to spear hunt in Oregon? :D

Raymond Richard
09-29-2009, 09:23 PM
That's coolcool 1 Do you know if it's legal to spear hunt in Oregon? :D

As long as you don't get caught. :D I really never gave that any thought.

Eli Gautreaux
09-30-2009, 08:26 AM
Ray,

The socket on the third one looks really clean. I'm glad you are having fun with these, they seem fitting to me for your style of knives and tools. This is something that every man room needs hanging on the wall :D

Raymond Richard
10-01-2009, 09:40 AM
I spent yesterday out in the shop forging another spearhead and I took a few pictures while I was out there. I made a chart of the changes the steel goes through while being being forged. I used the actual piece of steel I was working on for the tracings.

http://www.hawknknives.com/forums/IMG_1566.JPG

http://www.hawknknives.com/forums/IMG_1567.JPG

http://www.hawknknives.com/forums/IMG_1570.JPG

Eli Gautreaux
10-01-2009, 10:19 AM
That's a great idea Ray, really funny too!

I think I might like #4 the best, cool looking profile. Is that about 10 inches?

Raymond Richard
10-01-2009, 05:21 PM
That's a great idea Ray, really funny too!

I think I might like #4 the best, cool looking profile. Is that about 10 inches?

Eli, Actually the blade on 4 is 9", overall its 12 1/2". This one was done with 6 1/2" of 1/4 X 1 1/2 piece of steel. I do feel this is better than the first 3 mainly because I 've got a better handle on what I'm doing. I am refraining from forging today. To sore.

I got the first one together. Threw in a guard to. I think the others will be better but you got to begin somewhere. I also added a picture of yesterdays work. Nothing has been done to this blade other than the forging.

http://www.hawknknives.com/forums/IMG_1573.JPG

http://www.hawknknives.com/forums/IMG_1574.JPG

http://www.hawknknives.com/forums/IMG_1576.JPG

Karl B. Andersen
10-01-2009, 06:27 PM
http://www.hawknknives.com/forums/IMG_1567.JPG


Now THAT is cool!
How can somebody with no hair come up with that stuff?

Mathsr
10-01-2009, 08:19 PM
I really like these spear heads. It is something I have wanted to try but really didn't know how to start. I'm still not sure, but that has never stopped me in the past. I'm pretty sure the first one won't be having a photo taken of it though and probably not the second either.

Lorien
10-01-2009, 10:40 PM
those are super coolwalkdogs1.
Ray, have you done any socket handled knives yet? I'd love to see one of them bigass bowie type things of yours with a wrapped socket handle

Raymond Richard
10-01-2009, 11:59 PM
those are super coolwalkdogs1.
Ray, have you done any socket handled knives yet? I'd love to see one of them bigass bowie type things of yours with a wrapped socket handle

Lorien, These spearheads are the first time I have tried a socket. I have now given thought about using it with other blades. I know now why Tai did so many of the his bush knives. I keep seeing more and more ways to try the sockets.

Lorien
10-02-2009, 09:01 AM
I've got three knives now that Tai made, all with socket handles and for a working knife, that handle 'attachment' method can't be beat for strength. The handle design at least on the bigger two I have really cuts down on vibration when I'm hacking stuff or batoning with it, compared to a full exposed tang knife, and is stronger than a hidden tang.
Maybe my March knife will be made this way...

Raymond Richard
10-02-2009, 09:16 AM
I've got three knives now that Tai made, all with socket handles and for a working knife, that handle 'attachment' method can't be beat for strength. The handle design at least on the bigger two I have really cuts down on vibration when I'm hacking stuff or batoning with it, compared to a full exposed tang knife, and is stronger than a hidden tang.
Maybe my March knife will be made this way...

Lorien, I'm looking back to a rumor you started last year about you coming to Blade West. You had said back then you had a couple of Tai's bush knives and than you would bring one down with you so I could see it first hand. Then something else came up and you couldn't make it. I want you to know your not coming down broke my heart. cry me a river 1:D I'm pretty sure Tai didn't weld the socket and I'm sure not going to unless I am asked to do so. Did you find any reason to have the socket seem welded up after you had used them?

Raymond Richard
10-02-2009, 06:09 PM
I got the in town carry model done. I'm not really satisfied with how the set screws look. They work great other than that.

http://www.hawknknives.com/forums/IMG_1577.JPG

http://www.hawknknives.com/forums/IMG_1578.JPG

Peter Killgore
10-02-2009, 07:21 PM
bouncewow1 That sure is a unique way of doing a spear head. What is the end ball on the in town carry model? It looks like you took wrought iron and stamped it with a punch.

Raymond Richard
10-02-2009, 07:33 PM
bouncewow1 That sure is a unique way of doing a spear head. What is the end ball on the in town carry model? It looks like you took wrought iron and stamped it with a punch.

Peter, Its a piece of African Blackwood. I put a heavy texture on it with a rotary tool and then buffed it. That saved me a couple hours of hand sanding. Actually I saw a knife this morning on another forum and that gave me the idea. I hope I have some tall tales to tell about my adventure in Tacoma.

Lorien
10-02-2009, 09:53 PM
first of all, I'm so sorry Ray. I wanted to let you down easy, but...

Hehe. My one and only, (at the time) employee, (my kid brother) done took ill right when BW was going down, and I had to stay back and man the shop.
I had insured my VW, saved all my ugly American money, and made arrangements to visit Nick as well and crash out in the van for a couple of days for a well deserved road trip.
I was really wanting to greet you with a handshake more than anything.
I have a lot of respect for what you do, how you do it, and who you are. But that's enough of warm fuzzies Ray. I'll just leave it at that. No need for any more 'bromance'scooter 1

At any rate, owning your own business kind of sucks sometimes.

Now, what the hell are you talking about?
Are you thinking I had the seam welded on my Goo knife? I would NEVER second guess his knife building acumen, nor would I sully such a beautiful and handmade tool with some tacky welding. In my view, there should be no reason to weld the seam together. The steel is pretty strong, from what I understandwinner2.

Unfortunately, I've only bought one knife from Tai;
http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg44/sookecycle/Bladeworks/sept21hike004.jpg

These other two I got second hand, and it was just TOO good a deal to pass on;
http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg44/sookecycle/Bladeworks/knives007.jpg

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg44/sookecycle/Bladeworks/knives005.jpg

Now, a Ray Richard knife like this with a socket handle would be cool;
http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg44/sookecycle/Bladeworks/forgefinish10.jpg

Mathsr
10-02-2009, 11:43 PM
I have an old spear head that has a forged socket it's not welded either. The socket is kind of thin and springs a little which I think helps hold the shaft on. It is not pinned in any way. Tap the butt of the shaft on the concrete or a rock and the head won't budge. Like seating an ax head.

Raymond Richard
10-04-2009, 11:40 PM
I have an old spear head that has a forged socket it's not welded either. The socket is kind of thin and springs a little which I think helps hold the shaft on. It is not pinned in any way. Tap the butt of the shaft on the concrete or a rock and the head won't budge. Like seating an ax head.

Harry, I have noticed the springiness of the socket but I'm still thinking it will need more securing than what comes naturally from the socket. I need to do some testing when I have time.

Mathsr
10-05-2009, 09:45 PM
If you put a little rosin on the wood and tap the butt on something hard, I'll bet you have a hard time getting it off, especially if you warm the metal first. Course you could put a pin through the socket and put a toggle on one end like a boar spear. I think that would be more traditional. What kind of heat treatment did you do on them? Any chance we’ll get to see one finished out like you do your knives with a nice quench line wrapping around the Edge? Every one you do gets better looking......don't quit!

Raymond Richard
10-05-2009, 10:29 PM
If you put a little rosin on the wood and tap the butt on something hard, I'll bet you have a hard time getting it off, especially if you warm the metal first. Course you could put a pin through the socket and put a toggle on one end like a boar spear. I think that would be more traditional. What kind of heat treatment did you do on them? Any chance we’ll get to see one finished out like you do your knives with a nice quench line wrapping around the Edge? Every one you do gets better looking......don't quit!

Harry, I'm not real concerned about traditional. I just don't want to worry and the head coming off. 2thumbs I got a ton of ideas I'm wanting to try and yes I do plan to finish off a few blade and hunt for hamons. Here's one I've been forging on today.


http://www.hawknknives.com/forums/IMG_1582.JPG

Eli Gautreaux
10-06-2009, 08:52 AM
This one looks a little different Ray ---- what's that you're working on between the socket and the blade?

Raymond Richard
10-06-2009, 11:01 AM
This one looks a little different Ray ---- what's that you're working on between the socket and the blade?

Eli, That's called a doda or a spearhead's belly button plus its experimental. :D It could also be called a waist of time since it is at the waist. :D All kidding aside its just something I wanted to try.

Its about an hour later than my last post. I didn't mention that I had gone ahead and forged another socket. After looking at what I had this morning I removed the socket I had forged last night and eliminated the section in the middle so it will look like the others when I'm done. Bad idea but I just had to try it.

Eli Gautreaux
10-06-2009, 01:04 PM
Keep experimenting Ray, you sure do seem to come up with some good ideas, at least occassionally :D

Raymond Richard
10-10-2009, 10:50 AM
Not much action going on here for a few days so I thought I'd better post something. This latest spearhead is now going to be a knife blade. The second attempt on making the socket didn't work. I tried and I tried but the socket just wouldn't come. Now its got a through tang. Guess it could still be a spearhead with and additional socket but its going to be a knife someday.

Eli Gautreaux
10-10-2009, 02:29 PM
Ray, do you think a tang spear could work??? Seems like with the right bolts and a split end shaft it could be plenty secure.

Lol, maybe even use wing nuts, so you can do a field change if you break your shaft in battle :D

Raymond Richard
10-10-2009, 03:13 PM
Ray, do you think a tang spear could work??? Seems like with the right bolts and a split end shaft it could be plenty secure.

Lol, maybe even use wing nuts, so you can do a field change if you break your shaft in battle :D

Eli, Its going to be a knife. :D I already have an idea for it so it is destined to be a knife. 2thumbs

BTW, I sold my first two spearheads to Twin Blades. Thanks a lot to Harry and Charlie! I guess I'm officially in the spear business.

Mathsr
10-14-2009, 09:01 AM
Ray I have been out of town or I would have posted sooner. Charlie told me the spears had come in and looked great. Well...they do look great. I think we both are going to mount them on long shafts and display them in our hunting cabin. They should be great for dispatching the occasional varmint that comes around and maybe they will get used to stick a hog one day too.

Eli Gautreaux
10-14-2009, 10:28 AM
Harry, make sure you show us pics when you get them shafted :D

Raymond Richard
10-14-2009, 07:10 PM
Harry, What direction do you plan to take the spears? American Indian, African, and I guess there are others to.

Here's what the spearhead gone bad looks like now.

http://www.hawknknives.com/forums/IMG_1604.JPG

Peter Killgore
10-14-2009, 07:42 PM
For a spear head gone "bad", that looks pretty darn good.

Mathsr
10-14-2009, 09:21 PM
Yep, Ray that didn't make a good spear at all. That great looking handle sure covered up the bad socket well. That is what Charlie and I call a "save". Its a silk purse out of a sows ear type of thing.... Maybe more should turn out bad.

I haven't thought about the shaft for the spear head too much yet. I did stick it on a light weight walking stick I use to beat up on rattlers. You would be surprised how hard it was to get the head off that stick. All I did was give it a little twist when I put it on and then bumped it on the floor of my shop a couple of times. That head would not budge, so I clamped the head in a vise (padded) and gave it a good hard tug while twisting the walking stick. About the third pull it finally gave and I cleared a whole bench of all kinds of stuff that shouldn't have been there with the butt of that walking stick. You want to always put the cap back on the linseed oil real tight.

I kind of liked the length of the spear while it was on the walking stick which put the overall length at about 6 feet. That is likely the length I will go for. I have a piece of purple heart that is the right length and might use some of that for the shaft. I'm just not sure I want to be that rough on myself, but it would make one heck of a shaft that would just get better looking as it aged.

I have an antique African spear that is a throwing type and not what you would expect to see from Africa at all. It has about a 7 inch long, 3 inch wide head on a shaft about 6.5 feet in length. It has a hard wood spacer that the head is mounted on and goes into a cane shaft. The end of the shaft has an iron wrap for balance. The point is not sharp but the edges are very sharp. That thing will go through a possum like a hot knife through butter. It is light weight and tough. The one I make will likely be similar, so that I can use it like a walking stick while knocking about in the woods.

Raymond Richard
10-14-2009, 10:18 PM
Harry, I'd sure like to see pictures of the spears you have. They sound pretty interesting. Glad to hear the head stays on without the set screws. If I did what you did in my shop I'd probably knock myself out and still be laying there.

Eli Gautreaux
10-15-2009, 05:23 AM
Ray, that little dagger looks great!

Mathsr
10-15-2009, 01:52 PM
This is a photo of the African spear that I have. I had a spear with a lot of detailed iron work between the head and the socket, but it was stolen a few years ago. Neither of them look like the tourist stuff you see these days. I will take a close-up picture and try to get a couple of Charlie's as soon as I can get the camera working again. The head shown is 15 inches overall with a 9 inch blade and 7 inch socket. The head is about 2 inches wide and 1/4 inch thick at the mid blade ridge. The edge of the blade is very thin while the point is fairly thick. The socket is about 7/8 inch wide and fairly thin. This spear does have a steel pin through one side of the socket into the hard wood shaft. Charlie's does not and neither did the one that was stolen. I guess it was up to the guy that had the hammer. About 6 inches of the hardwood shaft is visible and is attached to the bamboo pole. The overall length of the spear is 7' 2". It is supposedly from the late 1800's and some place in Africa, but who knows...... could have been made by some guy in Alabama.

http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL782/4063224/8686882/376098020.jpg

Stuart Willis
10-15-2009, 06:15 PM
Nice spear Harry.

Raymond Richard
10-15-2009, 06:48 PM
This is a photo of the African spear that I have. I had a spear with a lot of detailed iron work between the head and the socket, but it was stolen a few years ago. Neither of them look like the tourist stuff you see these days. I will take a close-up picture and try to get a couple of Charlie's as soon as I can get the camera working again. The head shown is 15 inches overall with a 9 inch blade and 7 inch socket. The head is about 2 inches wide and 1/4 inch thick at the mid blade ridge. The edge of the blade is very thin while the point is fairly thick. The socket is about 7/8 inch wide and fairly thin. This spear does have a steel pin through one side of the socket into the hard wood shaft. Charlie's does not and neither did the one that was stolen. I guess it was up to the guy that had the hammer. About 6 inches of the hardwood shaft is visible and is attached to the bamboo pole. The overall length of the spear is 7' 2". It is supposedly from the late 1800's and some place in Africa, but who knows...... could have been made by some guy in Alabama.

http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL782/4063224/8686882/376098020.jpg

Harry, Thanks a lot! 2thumbs Always nice to see something new to get ideas rolling.

Mathsr
10-16-2009, 10:09 AM
I thought I would post a close-up of the blade on my spear.

http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL782/4063224/8450343/376147808.jpg

The next few pictures are of one that Charlie owns. It is 24" long with a 16" blade and 8" socket. The blade is 2" wide at the widest point.

http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL782/4063224/8450343/376147853.jpg

Blade showing the center rib that extends part way down the blade.

http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL782/4063224/8450343/376147882.jpg

This shows the edge of the blade in the area of the center rib as well as the taper of the center rib. The guy was pretty good with a hammer.

http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL782/4063224/8450343/376147901.jpg

Raymond Richard
10-16-2009, 10:35 AM
Harry, I like that! As perfect as the one Charlie has I'm thinking it just looks to good to be done by hand although I could be wrong. Thanks for taking the photo's.

Mathsr
10-16-2009, 11:14 AM
He probably had some kind of dies to do the rib, but there are enough imperfections and line shifts to make me think that it was done by hand when you look at it close. He also could have had a file or two, they have been around about as long as spears, but I would guess that the majority of the work on it is by hand.

There is not much doubt that the work on mine is by hand. I figure that it was probably cleaned up with a stone. You can still feel the impressions (I call them dents) where the hammer hit all up and down the blade and nothing is straight on it at all.

I am going to try to get a picture next week of one that Charlie has that is even better in my opinion although not as complicated. It is long, slender, graceful and well finished, but I also think it is hand made.

Let me know if you want me to quit. I like spears and wish I had the talent with a hammer to do this kind of work. Knives I can do....a socket is something I would have to think about for some time before starting.

Raymond Richard
10-16-2009, 12:45 PM
Don't quit! Your doing just fine.........

I was thinking dies also on that latest one. I'm enjoying seeing what your showing.

Mathsr
10-19-2009, 02:01 PM
This is the last one. It is from the same time period as the others. Supposedly the time of the Zulu wars, but again who knows for sure. It is at least 30 years old because Charlie has had it that long. Overall length of the spear head is 23 inches. The blade is 14 inches long with a 9 inch socket. The blade is 1 1/4 inches wide at the widest point and about 1/8 inch thick. The blade is flat in cross section with the edge being shaped almost like a Scandinavian knife. The edges taper back into the socket and form two sides of the octagon shaped socket. I thought that was a kind of neat trick and it looks good too. These spear heads are deliberately soft so they would not snap in use but would bend. The shafts were expendable but the heads could be straightened and re used. From the marks on the blades they all appear to have been sharpened often. They all have rather dull points with sharp edges. On a few of the critters I've stuck, they penetrated very easily which surprised me.


http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL782/4063224/8686882/376354835.jpg

Raymond Richard
10-19-2009, 02:19 PM
Harry, I was wondering about them being heat treated or not. What you just told me makes sense. Again I really appreciate the pictures and the explanations! I've thought all along that the spearheads were made with what ever they had found. I'll have to forge one out of a piece of mild steel and see how it holds up. Iron form a wagon wheel will work well.

Raymond Richard
12-23-2013, 11:22 AM
Moved this thread so I could find it easier.........

ddavelarsen
12-26-2013, 07:12 AM
You have plans Ray? Merry Christmas by the way! Thought of you yesterday since it's such a special day for me, probably you too...

Raymond Richard
12-26-2013, 09:31 AM
You have plans Ray? Merry Christmas by the way! Thought of you yesterday since it's such a special day for me, probably you too...

Dave, Thanks for the thoughts. Actually we did have a nice Christmas. My daughter and husband and the two granddaughters are here. There the ones from Tokyo.

I really don't have any plans for spears but I like to look at this thread when I can find it. I did start doing a little forging on another spoontune tomahawk last week. Moving very slow with that. Most the ideas I get would work better for a younger man.