the Bible

[Raymond Richard]

15 years ago I was given a small pocket size Gideons Bible. For such a small bible it had the biggest statement I had ever read on the second page in. It brought a tear to my eye then. I ran across this little bible the other day and I had the same reaction.

The Bible contains the mind of God, the state of man, the way of salvation, the doom of sinners, and the happiness of believers. Its doctrines are holy, its precepts are binding, its histories are true, and it decisions are immutable. Read it to be wise, believe it to be safe, and practice to be holy. It contains light to direct you, food to support you, and comfort to cheer you.
It is the traveler's map, the pilgrim's staff, the pilot's compass, the soldier's sword, and the Christian's charter. Here Paradise is restored, Heaven opened, and the gates of hell disclosed.

CHRIST is its grand subject, our good the design, and the glory of God its end.
It should fill the memory, rule the heart, and guide the feet. Read it slowly, frequently, and prayerfully. It is a mine of wealth, a paradise of glory, and a river of pleasure. It is given you in life, will be opened at the judgment, and be remembered for ever. It involves the highest responsibility, will reward the greatest labor, and will condemn all who trifle with its sacred contents.

Samuel Boggs is the author of these words This is an excerpt from a speech he gave in 1923.

[Bill Coye]

Amen.

[JAWilliams]

Thanks for a reminder.

[Eli Gautreaux]

Ray, that has to be one of the most articulate, comprehensive, yet concise statements about the Bible I've ever read. Incredibly well said.

I understand why it touched you, it moved me as well. Thanks!

[Chinook]

Went to KnifeDogs.com on Sunday morning to find your post on the Bible. It sure sets it straight. God bless you Ray.
Chinook
www.anglerinnovations.com

[echo-7]

Well put Ray, God bless... Mikey

[CAD]

Thanks for sharing Ray!


Chris D. :D

[Les Voorhies]

Well said Ray :)

[v-6]

Amen Ray , you got that right to Ray.
vern

[Stuart Willis]

Amen and God bless. Thanks for sharing

[Raymond Richard]

First of all I want to thank Tracy for not deleting this thread! It wasn't the easiest thing for me to post but now that I did and I see the response I'd like to keep this going.

This morning blacksmithing popped in my mind and I started thinking about it. It wasn't to long ago that in order to have a small village or a town a blacksmith shop was a necessity. I did a short term mission trip in Honduras a few years ago. The fellow that was our guide pointed out the blacksmithing shop at the small village we would be staying at. Anyway the little bit that I know about blacksmith shops is there was a little mysticism that seemed to go along with it. Looking at my shop there's really not much in there other than my grinder, a drill press, heat treating oven, rotary tool, and that's about it for power tools. Now I got my forge, a couple anvils, and way more hammers than I need. My shop really isn't much without me. I'm the head machine and I don't need to be plugged in. Other than hitting the switch to turn on my bathroom exhaust fan blower and turning on the gas I'm good to go.

When I first got into bladesmithing I knew very little and the first time I fired up my coal forge I'd built from a pickup truck brake drum I found out how right I was. Forging a blade from a piece of leaf spring just wasn't going to happen that day. In fact it was a couple years later that I felt like I was starting to get the hang of it and its been a never ending learning process since I started. All this time when I first started bladesmithing I felt like there was a presence there in the shop watching me. At times I thought maybe it was the spirit of my great grandfather Steve who had his own cutlery business in 1862 watching over me. (right now you probably thinking, I always knew Ray was a little strange)
Something I have been told before more than once.

More to the present time now. Most of you know that I've been part of a men's Bible study group that's been meeting for around 6 years now and the last 3 or 4 years we have been studying the Old Testament. I do think we will finish this study shortly but to me it has been well worth the time spent doing it. When I first became a christian I knew very little about the Bible and was told we live by the New Testament but I had always wondered why the Old Testament was about 7/8's of the book. It's a history of His Chosen People. They go from being in dyer straights to up on top of the mountain. God gives Moses the 10 Commandments a couple different times and these are the rules for you to live by. Things go real good while these rules are fresh in there minds but they gradually start back sliding and they find themselves back at dyer straights. When things get real bad they turn to God again and things start to turn around once again. This cycle continues through the Old Testament over and over again till Jesus Christ makes the scene with the new plan. The thing I appreciated the most out of this study of the Old Testament is it helped me understand myself. The faults I have are no different than those that lived in the good old days.

I look at "His Chosen People" in the Old Testament as "Man, himself" in the New Testament. Instead of God choosing us you either you chose to follow "Him" or just do as you please. You make the choice.

I had mentioned earlier about "mysticism" being somewhat tied to blacksmithing. Also thinking the presence I felt being my great grandfather watching me when I first started bladesmithing. I now know the presence I was feeling in the beginning of my adventure is much higher than that of my great grandfather. God talks to us. He talks to me in my shop most all the time. I've chosen to listen this time. Read the Bible and let God talk to you.

[Stuart Willis]

I look at "His Chosen People" in the Old Testament as "Man, himself" in the New Testament. Instead of God choosing us you either you chose to follow "Him" or just do as you please. You make the choice.

I had mentioned earlier about "mysticism" being somewhat tied to blacksmithing. Also thinking the presence I felt being my great grandfather watching me when I first started bladesmithing. I now know the presence I was feeling in the beginning of my adventure is much higher than that of my great grandfather. God talks to us. He talks to me in my shop most all the time. I've chosen to listen this time. Read the Bible and let God talk to you.

Well said Ray and I know what you mean about feeling the presence.

[Eli Gautreaux]

Well said, thanks for that Ray. I also believe God speaks, and I also want to listen (a little hard-headed myself sometimes :) )

[tonester]

thanks for sharing that raymond. i love those little bibles. i carry one in my back pocket all the time. i usually end up giving it away to a friend or someone i know that needs it more than i do. those bible always pick me up when im having a gloomy day too.

[Jeff Pearce]

Amen on that Ray....

[Les Voorhies]

God talks to us. He talks to me in my shop most all the time. I've chosen to listen this time. Read the Bible and let God talk to you.

That's where I mostly hear God also, I think it's solitude of the shop, even when it's not quiet in the shop, it's just you and God there.

[Raymond Richard]

That's where I mostly hear God also, I think it's solitude of the shop, even when it's not quiet in the shop, it's just you and God there.

Hey Brother, Have you been listening? :D

I find myself being 62 years old. 30 years as a christian and I bet the first 26 years I never read one complete book of the Bible. I just didn't get it until doing this Old Testament study and seemed to be grasping a little at a time. Now it flat out makes sense.

toenester, I just put my mini Book away. Its my shop Bible now!

[One]

I think God is just as much on the inside as outside. I mostly hear God coming from inside me when quiet and still. I think God will speak to anyone who will listen, whether through the bible, nature or through your own heart.

The best part is, everyone seems to hear something different... :)

The bible is very mysterious to me... I've read it several times cover to cover, and still don't understand the totality of it. It's like trying to pour the ocean into a paper cup.

[Mathsr]

Absolutely the best description I have ever read of the Bible. I'm sending a copy of it to my three sons. I hope that they will pass it on to their friends, I'm going to pass it on to mine.

You thanked Tracy for not deleting this thread. I do too. The responses you have gotten speak volumes about the people that visit this forum and volumes about the people that visit other forums I visit from time to time too. I wonder why I visit them when so many times I end up feeling like I need a break from the hate and venom that exists there.

[Ken Hurst]

I agree with all of the above and am happy that there are such members here.

[Raymond Richard]

I think God is just as much on the inside as outside. I mostly hear God coming from inside me when quiet and still. I think God will speak to anyone who will listen, whether through the bible, nature or through your own heart.

The best part is, everyone seems to hear something different... :)

The bible is very mysterious to me... I've read it several times cover to cover, and still don't understand the totality of it. It's like trying to pour the ocean into a paper cup.

One,

I believe parts of the Bible are meant to be mysterious. It allows us to go on Faith. I find myself using the word Hope a great deal. Without Faith, Hope is just another word.

I look at the words that I started this thread with. To me those words are nothing more than instructions. Something most people skip over or feel there just there to fill a blank page.

The best part is, everyone seems to hear something different... :)

Pretty amazing, isn't it. How many people are there in this world, billions and we are all different! There may be a few twins like Harry and Charlie who probably look alike but who's spirits are different. For the last 18 years I've have raised a number of cows and when you come right down to it a cow is a cow even if they are different breeds. God put just enough in the cows head to be what it is. :D

Harry,

So much of what I see in this world is on the negative side. I just wanted to do something positive.

[Raymond Richard]

I keep finding myself going back and re reading the statement I started on the Bible. Funny I can remember something like what I'm about to do when I went to school. That alone is a miracle itself. :D I'm going to take this statement apart. I also have Webster close at hand for some of the words I'm not sure of.

The Bible contains the mind of God, (Can you imagine how large God's mind is?) the state of man, (pretty sorry and sad) the way of salvation, (Arrow pointing directly at Jesus Christ) the doom of sinners, (pretty obvious at whats being said here) and the happiness of believers.(Eternal life in heaven) Its doctrines are holy, (a rule or law coming from God) its precepts are binding, (a direction meant as a rule that we should be tied to) its histories are true,(God written or inspired by God) and it decisions are immutable.(NEVER CHANGING!) Read it to be wise,(wisdom, uses there head) believe it to be safe, (something different) and practice to be holy. (How different would things be if we did that) It contains light to direct you, (another arrow pointing up) food to support you,(very low calorie and all meat, no fat) and comfort to cheer you. (Your best friend)
It is the traveler's map,(works anywhere, just open it up and your there) the pilgrim's staff, (a light weight cornerstone) the pilot's compass, (another arrow) the soldier's sword, (and don't forget the armor of God) and the Christian's charter.(setting forth the aims and principles of a united group, could be a church or how about even a country. I believe I heard of a country that once set up that way. Strange stuff going on here.) Here Paradise is restored, Heaven opened,(sounds like salvation) and the gates of hell disclosed. (here's a big negative)

Time for a break but the best is yet to come.

[Chinook]

Ray and all,
We certainly live at a time in history when everythings seems to be changing faster than we can fully comprehend. I look and the news everyday and am stunned by the madness. It seems the whole country is stunned and cannot react. Great relief here Ray. Thank you!

Chinook
1Peter2:6
For in Scripture it says: "See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and precious cornerstone, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame."

[Raymond Richard]

Ray and all,
We certainly live at a time in history when everythings seems to be changing faster than we can fully comprehend. I look and the news everyday and am stunned by the madness. It seems the whole country is stunned and cannot react. Great relief here Ray. Thank you!

Chinook
1Peter2:6
For in Scripture it says: "See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and precious cornerstone, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame."

Let me introduce Chinook. He's been a long time friend and brother in Christ. He's also got one of the world's largest collections of Raymond Richard Knives except for my own. He's my fishing buddy and its at his house we meet for our men's Bible study. Pretty good fellow but a little crazy from time to time. Welcome and Please come back again!

[Eli Gautreaux]

Ray and all,
We certainly live at a time in history when everythings seems to be changing faster than we can fully comprehend. I look and the news everyday and am stunned by the madness. It seems the whole country is stunned and cannot react. Great relief here Ray. Thank you!

Chinook
1Peter2:6
For in Scripture it says: "See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and precious cornerstone, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame."



Chinook, welcome to the forum bro, it's very very good to see you here! I'm hoping to be in Oregon again soon, maybe we can play a few games of cards to try and diminish your collection of Ray's knives :D. Nah, truth be told I'm not very good and would likely lose the few that I have, lol.


Ray, I love your commentary on the Bible statement, there is a TON of truth in there!

[Stuart Willis]

Hello Chinook and welcome. Nice of you to open your home for the men's Bible study.

[Raymond Richard]

I keep finding myself going back and re reading the statement I started on the Bible. Funny I can remember something like what I'm about to do when I went to school. That alone is a miracle itself. :D I'm going to take this statement apart. I also have Webster close at hand for some of the words I'm not sure of.

The Bible contains the mind of God, (Can you imagine how large God's mind is?) the state of man, (pretty sorry and sad) the way of salvation, (Arrow pointing directly at Jesus Christ) the doom of sinners, (pretty obvious at whats being said here) and the happiness of believers.(Eternal life in heaven) Its doctrines are holy, (a rule or law coming from God) its precepts are binding, (a direction meant as a rule that we should be tied to) its histories are true,(God written or inspired by God) and it decisions are immutable.(NEVER CHANGING!) Read it to be wise,(wisdom, uses there head) believe it to be safe, (something different) and practice to be holy. (How different would things be if we did that) It contains light to direct you, (another arrow pointing up) food to support you,(very low calorie and all meat, no fat) and comfort to cheer you. (Your best friend)
It is the traveler's map,(works anywhere, just open it up and your there) the pilgrim's staff, (a light weight cornerstone) the pilot's compass, (another arrow) the soldier's sword, (and don't forget the armor of God) and the Christian's charter.(setting forth the aims and principles of a united group, could be a church or how about even a country. I believe I heard of a country that once set up that way. Strange stuff going on here.) Here Paradise is restored, Heaven opened,(sounds like salvation) and the gates of hell disclosed. (here's a big negative)

Time for a break but the best is yet to come.

CHRIST is its grand subject, our good the design, and the glory of God its end. (Lets save this for later)

It should fill the memory, rule the heart, and guide the feet. (Things that will happen to us when it is read. Could things start to happen while it is being read?) Read it slowly, frequently, and prayerfully. (More instructions) It is a mine of wealth, a paradise of glory, and a river of pleasure. (More things the Bible will become) It is given you in life, will be opened at the judgment, and be remembered for ever. (Sounds like a pretty good book) It involves the highest responsibility, (Something we should share with others) will reward the greatest labor, (A GOAL= Eternal Life) and will condemn all who trifle with its sacred contents. (Do not change, modify, or leave out.)

CHRIST is its grand subject, (Amen!) our good the design,(Jesus Christ came to save us, that is the design) and the glory of God its end. (Hallelujah)

[One]

... Just say "YES"!

[Eli Gautreaux]

Awesome thoughts Ray, I was hoping you would finish your commentary.

I was doing a little reading in it today (Luke 12) and I'm pretty sure He was talking to me about money, in a good way :)

[Stuart Willis]

Very nice thoughts Ray.

[Old Man]

Very profound and undeniably true,
May GOD bless and keep us all

thanks Ray

Bill (Old Man)

[Rusty McDonald]

I too have one of those little bible's. It went with me to the desert and Somolia when I was in the Corps. The comfort the words gave me could not be compaired to any other.
I still have that Bible in my roll top desk and come across it on ocasion I will pick it up and read a chapter or two, but my eyes dont like the little print any more.

Psalms 31:1
In you, O LORD, I have taken refuge;
let me never be put to shame;
deliver me in your righteousness.

[Raymond Richard]

Where else can the Mind of God be found? unsure

[One]

Ray,

What I'm thinking is,... in God! :)

God is everywhere, in everything and in everyone.

"SWEET SURRENDER"

Sweet surrender, oh, so tender
Jesus your love so true
All that I am and ever will be
Jesus I'm giving to you

(Chorus)

In my sweet surrender freedom is found
Lord I'm your prisoner
In you, Lord, I'm bound
Perfect communion is what we have when we meet
With you Lord, surrender is sweet

Sweet surrender, oh, so tender
Why did I ever resist?
Worldly pleasures all forsaken
I never knew it could be like this

In my sweet surrender freedom is found
Lord I'm your prisoner
In you, Lord, I'm bound
Perfect communion is what we have when we meet
With you Lord, surrender is sweet

(Bridge)
I'll never know why I waited so long
For you to forgive my transgressions
And right all my wrongs

(Chorus)
Your yoke is easy; your burden light
Filled with mercy, comfort and might
Sweet surrender is what we have when we meet
With you, Lord, surrender is sweet


(My avatar and sig., line aren't working very well in this thread) LOL :(

[Raymond Richard]

Tai, You are right. Nice song to!

Normally before I head off to church I'll spend and hour or two out in my shop. I found myself thinking about the Mind of God. Then my mind went back to the creation of man. Some where I recall reading that man was created in "Our" likeness. That's pretty special! Hey if we got bodies that were created in God's likeness whats the chance that God put his brain in our heads?

[Peter Killgore]

Tai, You are right. Nice song to!

Hey if we got bodies that were created in God's likeness whats the chance that God put his brain in our heads?

Ray, based on some of the things I've done, I would say that chance is pretty darn slim. Like my neighbor says, "Stupid comes easy." I must say I agree.

[One]

Peter, God works in mysterious ways...

[Eli Gautreaux]

This is a great thread Ray, full of insight. I love the dialogue and exchange of different thoughts represented --- hopefully it'll keep going.

One very cool thing about the Bible is its diversity of authorship ---- it was written by about 40 authors from radically different times and places in history, covering about a 1500 year span. It's contributers varied from kings to peasants, from rich to poor, from the educated, to the uneducated. It covers a multiplicity of topics addressing all of life's issues... I'd like to see someone try to get 40 people from any one generation, and one continent, and one field of study, to write about one topic with as much unity and agreement as the Bible. It would be a fun experiment!


You guys have reminded me of a book I love called "The Mind of The Maker" by Dorothy Sayers. She says God is a maker, and He made us in His image ---- to be "makers." I think it was Sayers who said "Work is the creative expression of energy, in the service of God and others..."

Tai and Ray, you guys amaze me with your ability to make things. I think that's a gift that God put into your lives --- the drive to forge, to create, to make knives (artistic and functional tools.) And it's obvious to me by the quality of your work that you treat your work seriously, which is what I think God must have intended. :)

[Jerry Bond]

An God said,"they have become as one of US, now we must drive them out of the garden, lest they eat of the tree of life and live forever.
So they were driven out of the garden of eden, and cherubims
and a flaming sword were placed to guard the way back to the tree of life.
And Paul said that in the end ALL THINGS WILL BE KNOWN,
so the cherubims will be removed and we will be able to use the other 2/3 of our brain also. Now tell me "am I crazy for seeing it like that?" This can get real deep and I can't type or spell.
When you pray, pray for wisdom and understanding, as I did for 2 yrs. And he will give you enough to scare the hell out of you.
And you cannot talk to anyone, because you see everything diff.
and they think you are crazy, But all you want is friendship and
fellowship. But I do know about my Lord,for he said, learn of me and that is really all that matters . May God bless and keep you guys in the palm of his hand. Your friend, Jerry

[One]

Nice post Jerry! :)

I think that the other "2/3", of our brains does function, but we aren't always conscious or aware of it. It usually stays locked up in our subconscious minds… We don’t always recall it and even if we did,... we probably wouldn't understand it.

[Raymond Richard]

What's the chances that God uses His whole brain? I believe God put his brain in each and everyone of our heads. I look at the human brain the sameway as infinity. It will never fill up with knowledge. Think back to when your were a toddler. You did something you weren't supposed to do and right away you knew you did something wrong. Where did that come from?

[BRAVO1]

Ray,

I dont think it a coincidence that I happened to come across you when looking for advice about knives a few months ago. Thanks for the direction concerning knives and more importantly being a well placed reminder of "where" I should be. Keep doing what youre doing, youre doing more than you probably know.
BTW.. The gunstock clubs.. unbelievable.. I like how you tend to bring back and put a new spin on old ideas.

Gary

[One]

What's the chances that God uses His whole brain? I believe God put his brain in each and everyone of our heads. I look at the human brain the sameway as infinity. It will never fill up with knowledge. Think back to when your were a toddler. You did something you weren't supposed to do and right away you knew you did something wrong. Where did that come from?

... Maybe from the "heart". The heart is our second brain.

[One]

I've read in several places that the heart contains some "neurons", that are exactly the same as in the brain,... Don't know if that's true or not, but there are schools of thought that consider the heart part of the subconscious mind or "inner voice". Personally, when I'm practicing certain types of "meditation", I can "hear" a voice coming from my heart, not from my brain... I don't always understand it in my brain though.

[One]

The bible has a lot to say about the "heart", and seems to put more emphasis there than what goes on in the brain. Although, it may be referring to the "heart" on several different levels with different meanings, it seems to be saying that men and women can deceive and harden their own hearts,… which I assume comes from the brain.

However... "Lord, who shall abide in thy tabernacle? who shall dwell in thy holy hill? He that walketh uprightly, and worketh righteousness, and speaketh the truth in his heart." Psalm 15, verses 1-2

[One]

I think the bible is saying,… not to, “harden our hearts” or deceive ourselves with our conscious mind and the foggy smoke of “reality“,… but to stay soft, pure and open in our hearts... And “listen”.

I received this private message from my good friend and fellow knife enthusiast, the “Yogi Bhajan“,… the year before he passed. He liked to play with words and he well knew I was a bladesmith.

Let me share it with you…

“My dear one in Divine,

Sat Nam. (“You are divine“)

I have gratefully received your email.

Sharpen your intuition and cut out the bad habits. Keep only the good ones, and you will be the best!

Do a lot of Kundalini Yoga and become pure and clear like water.

Flow into your true divinity and let the heavens unfold and reveal themselves to you while you are still perfecting the blade of your consciousness.

Become pure steel in your soul-strength and soft like wax in your kindness and compassion, standing firmly in your base and grace.

My prayers and blessings are with you.

Humbly yours,
Yogi Bhajan”

[Raymond Richard]

Tai, I believe the brain and heart are connected and work as a team. God gives us a choice and always has. We either go our merry way with life and do as the world does. We can also follow whoever we chose. Some may sound good and true and make you feel something deep inside that makes you think your on the right track. I chose to live by faith and believe what is written in the Bible as true. No ifs and's or but's. Its there in that book........

[One]

Tai, I believe the brain and heart are connected and work as a team. God gives us a choice and always has.


Amen!

... and always will.

I believe in "you" brother... :)

"People get ready"

People get ready
There's a train coming
Picking up passengers
From coast to coast
Faith is the key
Open the doors and board 'em
There's room for all
If you'll just love the Lord

There ain't no room
For the hopeless sinner
Who would hurt all mankind
Just to save his own
Have pity on those
Whose chances grow thinner
There's no hiding place
Around the kingdon's throne

Chorus
People get ready
There's a train coming
Don't need no ticket
You just get on board
Faith is the key
Open the doors and board 'em
Don't need no ticket
You just thank the Lord

[ddavelarsen]

15 years ago I was given a small pocket size Gideons Bible. For such a small bible it had the biggest statement I had ever read on the second page in. It brought a tear to my eye then. I ran across this little bible the other day and I had the same reaction.

The Bible contains the mind of God, the state of man, the way of salvation, the doom of sinners, and the happiness of believers. Its doctrines are holy, its precepts are binding, its histories are true, and it decisions are immutable. Read it to be wise, believe it to be safe, and practice to be holy. It contains light to direct you, food to support you, and comfort to cheer you.
It is the traveler's map, the pilgrim's staff, the pilot's compass, the soldier's sword, and the Christian's charter. Here Paradise is restored, Heaven opened, and the gates of hell disclosed.

CHRIST is its grand subject, our good the design, and the glory of God its end.
It should fill the memory, rule the heart, and guide the feet. Read it slowly, frequently, and prayerfully. It is a mine of wealth, a paradise of glory, and a river of pleasure. It is given you in life, will be opened at the judgment, and be remembered for ever. It involves the highest responsibility, will reward the greatest labor, and will condemn all who trifle with its sacred contents.

Samuel Boggs is the author of these words This is an excerpt from a speech he gave in 1923.

Thanks Ray, that is truly moving. This is the first time I noticed this sticky, but it's now one of my favorites. I'll come back to read other's comments too.

[Raymond Richard]

I've been trying to find more information on Samuel Boggs. I contacted Kristy who is with The Gideons so here's a little more information on him and The Gideons. I wonder what the Bible count is now........

Mr. Boggs was the fourth president of The Gideons International from 1923 to 1926. In the 1925-1926 fiscal year, for the first time 100,000 Bibles were placed. During his presidency, he orchestrated a merger with the Canadian office which opened the way for offices of The Gideons to be established around the world. Even after he was president, he worked with a committee focused on reaching out to other countries with the Bible. At this present time we are working in 190 countries.

[Chuck Cook]

Ray
Thanks for starting this tread, I have enjoyed reading it and watching it grow.
I have long felt that God is always speaking to us, it is up to us to choose to listen.

[One]

B-Basic
I-Instructions
B-Before
L-Leaving
E-Earth

[ddavelarsen]

Hey, that's cool! I'm going to share that with my family, they'll all dig it too.

[Raymond Richard]

Tai, I think you just broke the code. :D

[Robert Dark]

It is the key to living both in today's times and the hereafter. Its like someone offering you a drink of water to quench your thirst. It is offered, but until you reach out and take it, it will never be yours.

Robert

[Calvin Robinson]

Thank you Raymond for starting this thread, it makes me feel good to read someone who confirms the same things I believe. I've been a Christian for as long as I can remember, I'm 57 now, however I have lived few of those years as Christ would want me to. Jesus reclaimed me about ten years ago and has been working to improve upon me, he has made a lot of progress but I have a long way to go. I pray and read the Bible every day, a Gidions pocket Bible is what I started with, I thank God for that organization. I gave my little Gidions bible to my oldest grandson a year or so ago and told him that it was life's instruction book. I am in the process of reading the old testement for the second time, it is difficult to understand and downright depressing sometimes but I keep plugging along because it does help me understand the big picture. Knife making gives me opportunity to testify about my faith, I need to do it more often, when someone ask's me " How do you make such beautiful knives?" I should say " By the grace of God." because none of us can accomplish anything without God.
God bless you all!

[Raymond Richard]

I feel like I have forgotten this thread but I really haven't. I have been trying to memorize the statement on the Bible and I think I'm pretty close. The most important thing is doing what it says. After around 5 years of studying the Old Testament the old men's Bible study group that I belong to finally finished it a few months ago. Now we are burning up the New Testament. We just finished chapter 5 in Matthew. At the rate we are moving I see us finishing the NT in 2015. You know speed is not necessary. Being in the Word is what its all about. I do look forward to the next 5 years of study and learning more about my Lord and Savior!

[Peter Killgore]

I always like taking more time to study the Bible, that way you don't miss anything. I'm in a Bible study at my church and we have been in Hebrews for a year and a half. We just got into ch.9 last weekend. It's incredible how much is in a passage when you really take the time to study it.

[arrow-360]

Wow!!! I can't believe they allow Bible talk here! If you mention the name of Jesus on other sights, it is closed right away. "Here it is made a sticky!!! " Guess this has just become my main sight. 2thumbs Hi to all my brothers!!!
Dave

[LR Adkins]

Ray, I thank you for starting this thread. Their isn't many places you can talk about our Heavenly Father and the scriptures with out being put down.

I joined my church 32 years ago, married my wife a year later, And we have been active ever since then. The blessings I have received are way beyond what I ever imagined. By relying on God and following the scriptures I have been able to weather every storm.

It's interesting to read everyones interpretation of the Bible. I know this is a good thing and I pray this thread will continue.

Larry

[Raymond Richard]

Wow!!! I can't believe they allow Bible talk here! If you mention the name of Jesus on other sights, it is closed right away. "Here it is made a sticky!!! " Guess this has just become my main sight. 2thumbs Hi to all my brothers!!!
Dave

Dave, When I first started this thread I needed a double dip of boldness. Lots of second thoughts for sure. I read about "Boldness" in the Bible and just put it to use. When I think about boldness the first person that comes to mind is Paul not to mention a host of may others!

I'm glad I took the time yesterday to stir the pot! Something positive is cooking!

[JatMat]

Thanks for the thread and thanks to Tracy for making a G rated forum for all of us. I had to upgrade a membership on another site, just to avoid seeing all the porn titles and R rated thread titles. I am not ashamed to say I am a Christian, saved by Grace and nothing at all that I have done, but accept the free gift of salvation.

A pardon given is not a pardon at all until received and accepted by the person.

Jim

Glad to be here.

[arrow-360]

All other sights usually have someone come in to argue, and gets the thread closed. I noticed this thread has gotten nearly 1500 views..... Awesome!!!
My desire is to have the life everyone is looking for, but not finding in there own efforts. That alone will speak volums whithout speaking a word! The Lord is real to me, and I wan't others to discover that reality. God is very, very good!!!
Dave

[ddavelarsen]

How cool is this?! A thread about Christianity that everyone gets into! I remember when Ray put this up it made me feel so good; like I was living in a "good" world again suddenly. It's always been one of my favorite threads anywhere, ever. It's comforting and fulfilling to know that so many others take strength from the Bible. Thanks again Ray, for being the very special man you are.

[Erin Burke]

[QUOTE=Raymond Richard;56787]Dave, When I first started this thread I needed a double dip of boldness.[QUOTE]

I think we could all use a healthy dose of this type of boldness in Christ as we walk our daily lives.

I've been reading through Exodus lately... and I think that construction of the tent of meeting/sanctuary holds a valuable lesson for those folks who are skilled craftsmen.

"And Moses called Bezalel and Oholiab and every craftsman in whose mind the Lord had put skill, everyone whose heart stirred him up to come to do the work." Exodus 36:2 (ESV)

Erin

[Raymond Richard]

Erin, I found the skill thing pretty amazing myself!

The Old Testament is basically a history of man. It covers several thousand years. Things were done the old way but man really hasn't changed any since we showed up. All the things that get us into trouble now were the samethings that got them into trouble. God gave us all "free will". Its up to us to chose which gate we pass through.

[Mike Barton]

God gave us all "free will". Its up to us to chose which gate we pass through.

Amen, Brother Ray

[Raymond Richard]

Pretty sure I mentioned trying to memorize the statement that I started this thread on about the Bible. I did not post this picture. Its kind of hard to read from this photo but its placed on the east wall of my shop and in clear view. Its something I look at several times a day and having it where it is has helped me to memorize it.

http://www.hawknknives.com/forums/IMG_1719.JPG

I live in an area that is surrounded by tree nursery's. There's always people working at these nursery's year round and I just can't help myself by not talking to a few of them. Most don't speak English but every once in awhile I will find one that does. I struck up a little bit of a friendship with Noa over the past year and I had told him if he had some free time to stop by the shop. He came by for a visit today and I think he was pretty shocked to see what I had going on in there. Then he noticed what I had written on the Bible and asked if he could take the time to read it. I could tell just by watching him it had struck a cord. After he got done reading it he told me that he was helping minister to a group of his brothers and sisters and that he'd like to copy it and share it with his friends. Hard to believe how much this up lifted us both and then we prayed together.

Just thought I'd share this here.

[Gil Brown]

Ray,

Great story on how God, once again, works in our lives. We never know who may appear at our door..........

Love Ya Ray,

Gil Brown
Your brother forever.

[Eli Gautreaux]

Pretty sure I mentioned trying to memorize the statement that I started this thread on about the Bible. I did not post this picture. Its kind of hard to read from this photo but its placed on the east wall of my shop and in clear view. Its something I look at several times a day and having it where it is has helped me to memorize it.

http://www.hawknknives.com/forums/IMG_1719.JPG

I live in an area that is surrounded by tree nursery's. There's always people working at these nursery's year round and I just can't help myself by not talking to a few of them. Most don't speak English but every once in awhile I will find one that does. I struck up a little bit of a friendship with Noa over the past year and I had told him if he had some free time to stop by the shop. He came by for a visit today and I think he was pretty shocked to see what I had going on in there. Then he noticed what I had written on the Bible and asked if he could take the time to read it. I could tell just by watching him it had struck a cord. After he got done reading it he told me that he was helping minister to a group of his brothers and sisters and that he'd like to copy it and share it with his friends. Hard to believe how much this up lifted us both and then we prayed together.

Just thought I'd share this here.



I love that Ray 2thumbs

[Keith Willis]

Thank you Ray.

God bless,Keith

[One]

Quenching the blade symbolizes the “incarnation” and “crystallization” of the "Word of God"!

Forging the blade symbolizes “death and rebirth”, "trial by fire" AND,... “the resurrection“!

[Lorien]

where does the handle fit in?

[Raymond Richard]

where does the handle fit in?

Lorien, How about Faith. That's what keeps me holding on.

[One]

If the handle is "Faith",... what's the sheath?

[Peter Killgore]

I would say the sheath is God's Love and Grace since we are caught in it and it holds on to us.

[One]

That’s kinds of what I was thinking…

Maybe the sheath symbolizes the “Comforter”,… The Holy Spirit.

[Raymond Richard]

That’s kinds of what I was thinking…

Maybe the sheath symbolizes the “Comforter”,… The Holy Spirit.

Tai, This is a good one for me to spend several hours of thought on while I'm in the shop.

[Lorien]

to me, the sheath represents mystery.
Ray, that is a great answer. Didn't even occur to me.

[Raymond Richard]

This came to me in an email today. I thought it was worth sharing.


Billy Graham is now 90 years old with Parkinson's disease.

In January 2000, leaders in Charlotte , North Carolina ,
invited their favorite son, Billy Graham, to a luncheon in
his honor.

Billy initially hesitated to accept the invitation because he
struggles with Parkinson's disease. But the Charlotte
leaders said, 'We don't expect a major address. Just
come and let us honor you.' So he agreed..

After wonderful things were said about him, Dr. Graham
stepped to the rostrum, looked at the crowd, and said,
'I'm reminded today of Albert Einstein, the great physicist who
this month has been honored by Time magazine as the
Man of the Century. Einstein was once traveling from
Princeton on a train when the conductor came down the
aisle, punching the tickets of every passenger. When he
came to Einstein, Einstein reached in his vest pocket. He
couldn't find his ticket, so he reached in his trouser pockets.
It wasn't there, so he looked in his briefcase but couldn't find it.
Then he looked in the seat beside him. He still couldn't find it.

The conductor said, 'Dr. Einstein, I know who you are.
We all know who you are. I'm sure you bought a ticket.
Don't worry about it.'

Einstein nodded appreciatively. The conductor continued
down the aisle punching tickets. As he was ready to
move to the next car, he turned around and saw the great
physicist down on his hands and knees looking under his
seat for his ticket.

The conductor rushed back and said, 'Dr. Einstein,
Dr. Einstein, don't worry, I know who you are No problem.
You don't need a ticket. I'm sure you bought one.'

Einstein looked at him and said, 'Young man, I too, know who I am.
What I don't know is where I'm going.''

Having said that Billy Graham continued, 'See the suit I'm
wearing? It's a brand new suit. My children, and my grandchildren
are telling me I've gotten a little slovenly in my old age.. I used to be
a bit more fastidious. So I went out and bought a new suit for this
luncheon and one more occasion.

You know what that occasion is? This is the suit in which
I'll be buried. But when you hear I'm dead, I don't want
you to immediately remember the suit I'm wearing.
I want you to remember this:

I not only know who I am .. I also know where I'm going.'

"Life without God is like an unsharpened pencil - it has no point."

[JAWilliams]

Ray that is thought catching and make you wonder about the people that don't know the love and grace God gives us. He is so right about an unshapened pencil.

[Eli Gautreaux]

Hey Larry,

It's sure easy to sound trite when responding to suffering, and I sincerely hope I don't sound that way to you. I've wrestled with lots of those questions myself, and have resolved a few things, or I could say have come to a few convictions:

First, is that God suffers more deeply and often than anyone. The picture of Jesus as a lamb is the quintessential type of the suffering of the innocent. And beyond the cross, the suffering of God is constant day in and out. If grief is proportional to intimacy (in other words, the more we love someone, the greater the risk that they can hurt us, and hurt us deeply.) God loves deeply even those who spit in his face and curse his name. So when you multiply the hurt of the sin and rebellion of billions of people over the ages, you begin to see the pain he lives with without reprieve. The incarnation of Jesus, the fact that God became a man, also tells us that God is not distant from suffering. Jesus, as a boy knew the loss of a father and the demands of working to support a family. As a man, he knew the pains of lonliness and bitter hurt of betrayal. The scars remained on Jesus even after the resurrection, as a sign of his suffering. He invites all to "touch my hands and feet, the hole in my side..." to see he is a God well aquainted with grief, sorrow, and suffering, one who embraces the hurting, never leaving them alone (the Bible says God is near to the broken-hearted.)

Secondly, I've come to the conviction that my finite mind cannot understand all the details of the infinite. For example, If I had been present there at the crucifixion of Jesus Christ (knowing only what they knew then, and not what we know now,) I would have walked away from that event wondering if there could possibly be a good God in heaven. My thoughts would have been to question God's existence altogether --- "Why would a good man like him have to suffer? He never hurt anyone, only helped people. Why was a beautiful and smart and caring young man cut down in the prime of life, lied about and falsely convicted, all for jealousy and pride? There cannot be a good God who would allow that to happen..."

However, in retrospect we know that the cross was the single greatest gift God ever gave to mankind. If I could so easily be so incredibly wrong about something like the cross, is it possible that I might be missing some greater purpose in my own suffering now? Is it possible that there will come a day that I will look back and see that He really is a good kind loving father, who had the best interest of his children in mind all the time? I've come to the conviction that one day I will understand all the suffering that I and my loved ones have endured in this life.

It takes a certain level of humility to trust that He knows best, akin to my daughter, who as a toddler always asked "why?" There are certain things I could explain to her, and other things that were just beyond her ability to grasp, she had to learn to trust me.

Larry, I sincerely hope I have not sounded demeaning. Your questions are good ones, and God isn't afraid of hard questions. But he is looking for truthfulness in the quest for answers. I think you'll find there are many rational answers if you are serious about finding them. I sure hope I get to meet you in person sometime, perhaps at a show

[One]

I don't mean any disrespect, but someone please answer this in a manner that one can understand.

Well here is the 'old problem' in a nutshell. Sure no one should tell a grieving mother that its all in god's plan, BUT if you believe in a god, THEN IT IS!

Why does a god make innocents suffer? There is no rational explanation.

Without suffering there would be no point of reference for the good times or nothing to compare them to. We can only appreciate pleasure and understand what it means, because of pain and suffering. It's a polarity thing, (like night and day, dark and light)... and all points in between.

In truth,... it's just a matter of perspective.

...It has more to do with how the human mind works and the physical reality we live in, than with God.

[Jeff Pearce]

this is a great thread. I don't want to see it closed. play nice....

[Eli Gautreaux]

Hi Larry,

It is precisely Ray's belief in the Bible and in Jesus that has led him to donate many knives for the orphans of Uganda. Bruce Bump recently donated a knfe for children in Jamaica. David Broadwell is currently doing the same.

You focus on the doctrine of original sin, but forget the Bible teaches that children, both newborn and unborn, are created in the image of God and are therefore precious beyond estimation in the sight of God and therefore his followers. Christians have done more to alleviate the suffering of children than any other ideology in history, a quick survey of the names of children's hospitals will show that belief in the Bible moves believers to help the weak and hurting.

I'm certainly not wanting to argue, but desperately hope you and others reading this can see that belief in the bible is not only rational, but also quite pragmatic in the world. The bible teaches us not to point our fingers at God or at others, but rather join in the cause to do what we can to help and love others. I sincerely hope you can see that :)

[One]

I'm not arguing with anyone here, just throwing in some philosophy and statistics...

Pain and pleasure (suffering and enjoying, happiness and sadness) are totally dependant on each other, and without them the dynamics of "LIFE" would be lost. It's best just to accept it... LIFE... the nature of life.

"Christians have done more to alleviate the suffering of children than any other ideology in history, a quick survey of the names of children's hospitals will show that belief in the Bible moves believers to help the weak and hurting."

Christianity is the world's largest religion with an estimated 2.1 billion followers. That's over 1/4 of the world's population. Smaller religions also do what they can to help.

http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html

You don't have to be religious to want to help your fellow human beings. Its natural for most people, even atheists.

"belief in the bible is not only rational, but also quite pragmatic in the world."

Belief in the bible is strictly a matter of faith and freedom of choice...

[Eli Gautreaux]

I'm not arguing with anyone here, just throwing in some philosophy and statistics...

Pain and pleasure (suffering and enjoying, happiness and sadness) are totally dependant on each other, and without them the dynamics of "LIFE" would be lost. It's best just to accept it... LIFE... the nature of life.

"Christians have done more to alleviate the suffering of children than any other ideology in history, a quick survey of the names of children's hospitals will show that belief in the Bible moves believers to help the weak and hurting."

Christianity is the world's largest religion with an estimated 2.1 billion followers. That's over 1/4 of the world's population. Smaller religions also do what they can to help.

http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html

You don't have to be religious to want to help your fellow human beings. Its natural for most people, even atheists.

"belief in the bible is not only rational, but also quite pragmatic in the world."

Belief in the bible is strictly a matter of faith and freedom of choice...


Hey Tai,

Thanks for your thoughts, and your cordiality :) I'm no philosopher, but let me try to say with more clarity what I was thinking...


You make a good point about the size of the Christian faith and therefore the corresponding responsibility to action, I couldn't agree more.


However, you said "You don't have to be religious to want to help your fellow human beings. Its natural for most people, even atheists."

On that point I agree and disagree. My bigger point above was, belief in Christianity (as spelled out in the Bible) mandates action to alleviate human suffering, anything less is hypocrisy, of which the church has been very very often guilty :( However, the bible, when believed and followed, presents a worldview which allows for nothing less.

Atheism however, does not necesarrily move towards benevolence. While it is true that there are many atheists who have given themselves to philanthropy, atheism philosophically has forfeited the right to any "higher" moral law. This autonomous individual morality can just as easily give rise to an opposite and horrific ideology (Auschwitz was mentioned earlier.) Don't you think even a benevolent atheist, who is comitted to goodness, is hard pressed to rail against evil, once he/she has denied a moral law.

Again, I agree with you that many non-religious persons are very kind and helpful to fellow humans, but my point is that the bible mandates that lifestyle, atheism does not, and in fact opens the door for the opposite.




When you said: "Belief in the bible is strictly a matter of faith and freedom of choice..." I'm not sure exactly what you meant, but I absolutely agree with you that it's a matter of faith. I was trying to say that belief in the Bible is not an irrational proposition. All outlooks on life rest upon faith, in that they cannot be proved with absolute certainty. But this doesn’t mean that they’re all equally plausible. The big questions concern the reliability of its historical foundations, its internal consistency, its rationality, its power to convert, and its relevance to human existence. I think the Bible excels in all accounts.


Hope that makes sense, I'm not the best at articulating my thoughts ---- I'm not "the sharpest tool in the shed" as we say in Texas :D You guys are forcing me to think, and that's a good thing, even if it makes me a little dizzy :bud:

[One]

From what I've heard (which really isn't that much), atheists believe that moral and ethical law, is more of a natural inherent thing in people. People are essentially good and naturally driven towards philanthropy etc.

It's not so important what the philosophical position on God is, as it is the reflection of God in our lives... If you believe in God, you can see God reflected in all people.

"Life" is a very mysterious thing!,... and I hope it stays that way. :)

To take away life's mysteries, would also be to take away it's dynamics... or any need for faith.

[One]

Larry, I understand what you are saying and think in fairness it needed to be said.

I also understand how atheists could be offended by this quote:
"Life without God is like an unsharpened pencil - it has no point."

However, I also appreciated and understand the zest and enthusiasm that believers show for their faith. … Sometimes they get a bit carried away,... but that's O.K. too. :)

I don’t think anyone needs to apologize.

[Eli Gautreaux]

Thanks fellas, I sure love this forum :running dog:

[Lorien]

for the atheists;
'the unexamined life is not worth living'
-Socrates

the equivalent of the pencil, for those less inclined to have faith in God.:D

[Raymond Richard]

for the atheists;
'the unexamined life is not worth living'
-Socrates

the equivalent of the pencil, for those less inclined to have faith in God.:D

Lorien, Your missing the point. What good is a pencil without a point?

I went to bed last night with this thread deep in my mind. Got up this morning and headed for church hoping something would put some light on the subject. The name of the sermon was called "Betting on Hope" which turned out to be focused on faith.

Here are a few things that came to my mind as to why bad things happen to good people. God seems to always get blamed when bad things happen to good people. Where is evil? Bad things happen when God is absent. Why is God absent? Because he is not needed. We chose to go along or merry way doing what ever we please. Look at the government, heck look at the world. He's just not welcome. We can take care of ourselves.......

Read the Old Testament. Over and over again things are great but then man starts putting himself before God. God is forced out. Things fall apart, there at the bottom of the barrel and then they ask God for his help and things gradually start getting better and the cycle repeats itself. What I see happening in the world today is just another repeat of what has already happened except on a much larger scale.

Bad things happen to all people when God is absent.

[Jeff Pearce]

Rock this is Raymond paid forum. he can post what ever he wants and as long as it stays friendly there is no problem...

[BossDog]

This thread was started with one person's declaration of his faith and what he got from reading the Bible. It had no drama and fell with in our posted rules. If some one, any one comes along and tries to start a debate, of any kind around that original post or religion in general, then I have a problem with that. I have not kept up with this thread and I have no intention of going back reading it all.

No drama applies to sub forums also. I have demonstrated several times that I have a very low tolerance for drama here and I will close this thread in a heart beat if it continues down the path that I have seen in these last few posts.

[Jeff Pearce]

I deleted some post. keep on track or i will delete more.

[One]

Bad things happen to all people when God is absent.

By nature God is everywhere and is never absent... regardless of whether we believe in God or not. 2thumbs

We can't force God out of our lives...

When we seek God,... we don't have to look very far. God is right there and always has been. :)

[Don Carlos Andrade]

By nature God is everywhere and is never absent... regardless of whether we believe in God or not. 2thumbs

We can't force God out of our lives...

When we seek God,... we don't have to look very far. God is right there and always has been. :)


YEP! 2thumbs

[Lorien]

I like that one too, Tai. Pretty much sums it up for me.

[One]

Thanks guys! Me too!

... but

Don't encourage me. :confused:

Once I start preaching about God you'll all wish you hadn't. 2thumbs
... just ask Ray! LOL :D

Woof! :bud:

[SPANK7357]

I joined this forum a few hours ago. This is my first post and it consists of one word. AMEN!

Dave "Spank" Spanski

[Bruce Bump]

I accepted Jesus in 1989 and was babitized. Since that day old habits just fell off and I began a new life. Before that day I was nearly divorced, couldnt see my children, smoked and drank daily and didnt give a ---- about anything except myself. Almost immediately Kaye and I got back together after 7 months of separation, started attending a little church and began to start a new life. Now we are about to celebrate our 35th anniversary and have never been happier. Its a good life in comparison to my old one. That was 22 years ago and almost daily I thank him. It works for me and my family and we have some of the best friends on earth. I'm not one to debate anything but I know he lives.

It takes guts to start a thread like this Ray. You are what a real man of God is.

[Dana Hackney]

Thanks, so much, for the beautiful post and exhortation.

Kind regards,
Dana



15 years ago I was given a small pocket size Gideons Bible. For such a small bible it had the biggest statement I had ever read on the second page in. It brought a tear to my eye then. I ran across this little bible the other day and I had the same reaction.

The Bible contains the mind of God, the state of man, the way of salvation, the doom of sinners, and the happiness of believers. Its doctrines are holy, its precepts are binding, its histories are true, and it decisions are immutable. Read it to be wise, believe it to be safe, and practice to be holy. It contains light to direct you, food to support you, and comfort to cheer you.
It is the traveler's map, the pilgrim's staff, the pilot's compass, the soldier's sword, and the Christian's charter. Here Paradise is restored, Heaven opened, and the gates of hell disclosed.

CHRIST is its grand subject, our good the design, and the glory of God its end.
It should fill the memory, rule the heart, and guide the feet. Read it slowly, frequently, and prayerfully. It is a mine of wealth, a paradise of glory, and a river of pleasure. It is given you in life, will be opened at the judgment, and be remembered for ever. It involves the highest responsibility, will reward the greatest labor, and will condemn all who trifle with its sacred contents.

Samuel Boggs is the author of these words This is an excerpt from a speech he gave in 1923.

[HHH Knives]

This is a great thread.. Ray, God Bless YA and thanks for starting it.. I agree with much of whats been said, and hope to continue to read this and watch it grow..

Randy

[BRad704]

Thank you so much Randy for bumping this thread! I never would have found it otherwise, and as a Christian of 19 years, I am glad to see that we are able to have conversations openly about God and our faith. Someone said it back on page 2, but I have to agree again, that this just became my very favorite forum/site to frequent.

-Brad-

[dan van]

Ray, Thanks for posting the truth for a lost world to find the way. Dan

[CRF]

Wow! Thank you

[JatMat]

I accepted Jesus in 1989 and was babitized. Since that day old habits just fell off and I began a new life. Before that day I was nearly divorced, couldnt see my children, smoked and drank daily and didnt give a ---- about anything except myself. Almost immediately Kaye and I got back together after 7 months of separation, started attending a little church and began to start a new life. Now we are about to celebrate our 35th anniversary and have never been happier. Its a good life in comparison to my old one. That was 22 years ago and almost daily I thank him. It works for me and my family and we have some of the best friends on earth. I'm not one to debate anything but I know he lives.

It takes guts to start a thread like this Ray. You are what a real man of God is.
I accepted Christ in 1972, before then, I dreaded going home and having words with wife. Christ turned my life around and now my wife and I are close to being married 47 years, some hiccups in first seven, but they do not get any better than now. She is my friend and supports me when I need it. Thanks Ray again.
Jim

[Benr.t]

As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.
Proverbs 27:17

Threads like these are good reminder to keep each other "sharp".
Thanks for posting this Ray!

[Rustyboy]

ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ : st. Jerome:biggrin:

it wasn't until i was in my twenties that i found out what this really meant. so now im still an idiot just not an ignorant one.:lol:

[Raymond Richard]

ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ : st. Jerome:biggrin:

it wasn't until i was in my twenties that i found out what this really meant. so now im still an idiot just not an ignorant one.:lol:

All I got to say is I just hope there's a boat load of Grace when my time comes. I been reading "Ragamuffin Gospel" for little over a week now. Really enjoying that.