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View Full Version : Talk to me about Park's #50?



ARCustomKnives
01-22-2011, 01:27 AM
Hey guys,
I just recently aquired 5 gallons of Parks 50 quenchant from Maxim Oil, and I was wondering if you guys had any tips or info to give me regarding its use?

Up until now, I've just been using pre-heated veg. oil heated to about 120 or 130F to quench my 1095 blades.

Apparently this can be used from 50 to 125F or so, but should not exceed 125. Do you guys notice any benefits from different temps in that range, or is it all about the same?

Also, is there anything I need to keep in mind when using or storing this? Any ideas as to how many quenches I can get per gallon of this stuff?

Any advice or info is much appreciated!

Thanks guys,
Drew

murphda2
01-22-2011, 01:41 AM
THe only advice I can give is, "DON'T OVER HEAT IT!!!" Don't ask how I know, just understand that it was the scarriest morning of my life. Oh, and keep a fire extinguisher handy in case you make the same mistake I made.

ARCustomKnives
01-22-2011, 07:57 AM
THe only advice I can give is, "DON'T OVER HEAT IT!!!" Don't ask how I know, just understand that it was the scarriest morning of my life. Oh, and keep a fire extinguisher handy in case you make the same mistake I made.

How much did you overheat it? Are you referencing the 125F that they recommend in the Technical Data sheet?

EdCaffreyMS
01-22-2011, 08:32 AM
My recommendation is to not even pre-heat Parks 50. When I first acquired mine, it never crossed my mind, and I pre-heated it just as I had always done with mineral oil. I cracked three 52100 blade right out of the gate. Speaking from my own experience, pre-heating with simple carbon steels (to about 100-120F is OK, and the blades get "scary" hard) but with steels such as 52100 and 5160, use it at room temp (60-70F). Recently, I pretty much use it at room temp. There is a profound difference between the Parks 50 and veg oil...think about what your doing, and take it slow/think about what you're doing, and everything should be fine.

Out of all the oils I have used over the years, I have never encountered anything that is as fast as Parks 50 that has been pre-heated to 120-130F.

Josh Dabney
01-22-2011, 09:16 AM
I too just got some 50 from Kelly Kupples (Great guy to do business with !)

I do have one question though Ed- Do you think it may be a good idea to pre-heat to say 100 degrees for a consistant quench speed and repeatable results ? I'm working mainly with 1095 right now and do understand why you'ld use it at room temp for slower quench steels.

Thanks, Josh

murphda2
01-22-2011, 11:19 AM
I had all the wrong variables (100% my fault).

1. Didn't get data sheet, so I winged it.
2. Inadequate quench tank (no lid) and on about 1 gal in size.
3. Pre-heated oil to 125.
4. Overheated blade in forge.
5. When quench tank flashed, attempted to use a make shift lid to smother fire.
6. In haste, knocked over quench tank.

Results: FIRE!!! + Scared to Death. My shop is in a storage unit at a mini-storage facility. My first thought was oh $&@!*, I'm going to burn down this entire place. After about 3 seconds of seeing my financial future flash before my eyes, I snapped to, cut the fuel to my forge, and started throwing things out the shop door (big overhead door). Ran outside and moved my car out of the way and then went in and dragged the desk I had my quench tank on out of the shop. Luckily, the old desk doesn't have a top on it and my quench tank was in the top drawer of the desk. I had boards laying across the other half of the desk with tools on them. After dragging the desk outside, I just watched it burn. Luckily, the fire didn't follow the oil as it leaked out of the desk and all over the floor of my shop and I only sustained some minor burns to my hands and about $4-500 in lost tools and supplies.

The layout of my shop is now different. I have a more suitable quench tank with an adequate lid and my quench tank is set in the same drawer surrounded by about 15 lbs of Oil Dri. Oh, and there is an industrial sized and rated fire extinguisher two foot away.

Josh Dabney
01-22-2011, 11:56 AM
HOLY @%%#! Murph !!!

Sounds like it could've been worse but sorry to hear about this accident.

Josh

Doug Lester
01-22-2011, 01:56 PM
Always have an oil fire rated fire extinguisher around when there is even a possiblity of an burning oil. It sounds like Parks 50 has a low flash point but it will still float on water. If you have burning oil that is over the boiling point of water, spraying it with water could ge the last thing that you do. Myth Bustes did a segment where they put a skillet of oil on a hot plate until it flashed over. Then they poured 1/2 cup of water on the fire. Flames were shot 25 feet into the air in an unconfined space. Just think what could happen in a closed space.

Doug Lester

EdCaffreyMS
01-22-2011, 02:30 PM
Josh,

I think that each person is gona have to decide if they want to pre-heat it, and to what temp. Personally, I don't pre-heat it for 5160 or 52100. With 1084 and Damascus, I do bring it to 100F when quenching.
After if cracked those first couple of 52100 blades, I played around with temps on pre-heating, and had only marginal success....so I now use it at room temp for those two steels.

ARCustomKnives
01-22-2011, 02:41 PM
My recommendation is to not even pre-heat Parks 50. When I first acquired mine, it never crossed my mind, and I pre-heated it just as I had always done with mineral oil. I cracked three 52100 blade right out of the gate. Speaking from my own experience, pre-heating with simple carbon steels (to about 100-120F is OK, and the blades get "scary" hard) but with steels such as 52100 and 5160, use it at room temp (60-70F). Recently, I pretty much use it at room temp. There is a profound difference between the Parks 50 and veg oil...think about what your doing, and take it slow/think about what you're doing, and everything should be fine.
Out of all the oils I have used over the years, I have never encountered anything that is as fast as Parks 50 that has been pre-heated to 120-130F.

I wouldn't preheat it if not for the fact that my shop is an unheated garage that currently sits between 30 and 40 degrees Farenheit. (Not bad considering it was 0F outside last night!)
I put a thermometer in my bucket of parks and read about 35F or so. I really don't plan on heating it much past 50F myself, as the tech sheet claims it will work just as good at 50 as it will 125.

I suppose I would be best to just bring the oil in the house and let it warm up before I bring it out to the shop. It should then hold temperature long enough until I quench my first blade, at which point I'm sure the temp will rise pretty consistently with each consecutive blade. I rarely do more than 2 to 4 at a time anyway, so I shouldn't have any problems raising it past 125.

I do have at least one oil rated fire extinguisher in my shop, so I'm definitely gonna keep it ready.

ARCustomKnives
01-22-2011, 11:22 PM
Well, I did my first heat treat and quench with the Parks 50. The tank I'm using is one that I just made out of some 4" PVC pipe, lined with some vent pipe to keep my blades from accidentally melting through if I bump the sides before it cools enough.
It holds just over a gallon of oil, and I installed a water heater element in the bottom in case I need to pre-heat the oil a little bit.

The oil was about 35*F when I added it to my tank, so I flicked the switch on for a couple seconds just long enough for it to break 50*F. I then quenched my blade and seemed to have successful results. No flashes or flare ups. Got a little bit of a "shhhhhh" noise when the blade first went in, and BOY DOES THIS STUFF STINK!!!

The oil went from a light amber to more of a dark amber, but I can still see the bottom of my quench tank. The blade remained straight and didn't crack or anything. A file test verified that the blade was indeed hardened, and I'm currently tempering at 400F for the first cycle. I wish I had a rockwell tester to verify my results, but it seems like everything was successful.

I think I might need to invest in an exhaust fan though! hahah

murphda2
01-22-2011, 11:40 PM
I make sure to wear my respirator when I HT.

franklin
03-05-2011, 09:17 AM
how long can you keep using 1 gallon /how many knives before you change it for fresh stuff.

murphda2
03-05-2011, 08:51 PM
I have a 16qt stock pot I'm using as my quench tank and I keep it about 2/3rd full. When packing up my shop Thursday night I had to prep it for shipping (pour it back in the bucket). I dipped out most of it to pour it back in the bucket and found it to be mostly clean. When I got close to the bottom of my quench tank, I began pouring it through a filter. I've used it for 20-30 blades so far and it still appears good. I do think that I will begin filtering it ever so often to keep it clean.

Hopefully someone smarter than me will come along and give an educated answer to your question.

ARCustomKnives
03-12-2011, 06:26 PM
I'm curious as to how long P50 is good for myself. Anyone?

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