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View Full Version : Knives for Servicemen-Maker input wanted



Justin King
09-26-2010, 11:48 PM
(Note: edited to include a list of contributors and volunteers, see below)
With Tracy (Bossdog)'s blessing I am asking for input from other makers (especially U.S. makers but not exclusively so) to help see that our military men and women are well equipped to perform their widely varying tasks when it comes to edged implements.

I posted recently in the Custom Knife Forum about a small knife I was planning to send in a care package to a deployed Army unit which was requesting small fixed-blade knives. I was contacted by another forum member who saw the thread and was wondering how he could do something similar, which lead me to search the military contacts further to see how many are asking for knives in particular. Note that these are all deployed personnel and in many cases their PX is chronically short of stock or dosn't exist in the first place. The number who are asking for knives is considerable.

I am hoping there are more makers out there who would be willing to donate their work in some form, so that as a group perhaps some of us can make a real difference in helping these men and women be able to do their jobs as effectively as possible.

I do not have a formal organization or plan in place to make this happen so I am asking for input on any level. I do send care packages overseas to deployed units regularly, and am familiar with that end of things to some extent, but how to organize things on the maker's end is wide open and will depend on what kind of participation there is from other makers. So what can we do?

I would like to open a discussion and get a feel for who might want to get involved and how we might make it work. I have a contact in mind immediately that represents 6 guys, who could really use some good, fixed or folding knives for technical/rescue applications. Any help would be appreciated by more than just myself.

Edit: I want to thank everyone who has volunteered or donated in any way to this effort. I will try to keep this list updated, if I have anyone misrepresented or misspelled, I apologize, please let me know so I can correct it.

List of Contributors:
Aldo Bruno/New Jersey Steel Baron- blade steel
Dave/ Great Lakes Water Jet- water cutting services
Tracy/Midwest Knifemaker Supply- Micarta scales, and the public platform to make this effort possible
Big Smitty/Possum Knifeworks-PR for sheath and misc. donations
Doug White/Whiteeugene-micarta scales, ss tube, corbys
Bruce M.-micarta scales
Ironwolf-multiple design contributions
R.Keith-future donation to cover shipping/misc expenses
Bill T.-misc. hardware as needed

Volunteer Makers, in no particular order:
Rodney J.
Big Smitty/Possum Knifeworks
Randy Haas/HHH knives
Murphda2
Nowicki
Bill T.
Denny Eller
Tune_up
Cal Harkins
Justin King
Carey Quinn
Jerry Bond
Gahagan
Rudy Joly

I would like to take a moment to thank Murphda2 who has been instrumental in this effort out of the gate. I really appreciate your help.

murphda2
09-27-2010, 06:58 AM
If we don't have a short timeline, I will gladly send one. Unfortunately, my new training cycle just started and I have a few blades on the bench I need to finish in the next week.

If you need design ideas, I have several small tactical fixed blade designs that I can share.

Justin King
09-27-2010, 09:09 AM
I am looking for any and all help, Murph. This probably will not be quick or simple to put together. The possibility for maker involvement is wide open-from just making and donating a knife to selling/raffling/etc. a hand-made knife to buy production models to send. We can do multiple maker build-offs, where one guy profiles a blade or blades, another drills and bevels, another does the HT, etc. If it goes this direction then we could open it up to donations from suppliers for the materials as well.

I want to err on the side of discretion when discussing deployed personnel, but want to illustrate the need that some of these guys are in. A contact representing 6 men in an Air Force firefighting unit is asking for anything sharp enough to cut seatbelts. They are apparently using kitchen knives for utility tasks, their PX is chronically out of knives. Your crappiest pocketknife could make a real difference here, so the possibilities to help are open to a lot of people.


I have seen some amazing things happen on this forum out of the goodwill that this community seems to have in abundance. We also seem to have a unique ability to fill this particular need. I am hoping we can get a ball rolling here. I have a knife going out today and am ready to put another package together at any time to go over. I need knives to go in it, anyone want a spot? If nothing else, there will be some Wal-Mart cheapies in the second box.

Curtiss Knives
09-27-2010, 10:38 AM
I got an idea. Get with you soon with it. Need to make some calls first.

Denny Eller
09-27-2010, 10:54 AM
Justin, I think this is a great idea and I will do anything I can to help. I have wanted to do this for some time but I don't know how to contact the units I would like to support. If anyone can offer advice on how to get contact info for a specific unit please let me know.

son of liberty
09-27-2010, 11:05 AM
Im the FNG but I would be in to help anyway I could.

Ironwolf
09-27-2010, 12:33 PM
This goes way up at the top of my "Awesome Stuff" List...
Thanks Justin!
Also,this would be the perfect place for all those serviceable but cosmetically flawed knives that makers
don't feel are saleable...(re: my "What do you do with knives that aren't perfect?" thread)
I'm keeping this thread high on my radar and will be doing something as soon as I'm relocated and able!

Justin King
09-27-2010, 02:29 PM
A thought-however this goes, we are going to need at least one person who will be responsible for getting knives boxed, filling out the customs forms, addressing the packages, and shipping them. This is the most tedious and perhaps the most critical part of the process, technical knifemaking issues aside. It involves at least a moderate investment of time and the addresses and forms have to be filled out correctly or the boxes may not reach their destination.
I am familiar with the process myself and am happy to do it, but I think that some potential makers/donors may be more comfortable with a more well-known and trusted personage (on the forums) recieving the knives and sending them off. For this reason, and also to open the door for non-makers to get involved, I would welcome any suggestions or offers about who might be willing to help with this part of the process in the future. I am already sending packages out every month or so, so it is not a critical issue for me either way.

murphda2
09-27-2010, 02:43 PM
I had thought of asking about doing something similar in a few months. My brigade will be heading to Afghanistan in about a year, and I always have young soldiers in need of a quality knife as opposed to the "PX junk" that they end up buying to carry. I have several designs I have been working on for such an effort and I'm getting close to finishing up the first one now. I'll keep you all posted on how it turns out. The first one will be getting a workout in the mountains of Colorado in a few weeks when my brother heads up for his elk hunt.

Curtiss Knives
09-27-2010, 03:17 PM
Ok, just what kind of knives are we talking about? Fixed? Folders? Size? So on and so on. Quantity? I need info to devise a plan of attack.

Justin King
09-27-2010, 03:52 PM
Ok, just what kind of knives are we talking about? Fixed? Folders? Size? So on and so on. Quantity? I need info to devise a plan of attack.
Thank you for your enthusiasm!

That depends on the needs of individual units. Many of the requests coming from these units are for tactical folding knives, but some are for fixed blades and some are unspecific. Many of them are support (non-combat) units and are probably well served by relatively compact knives, either folders or edc/utility fixed blade types. There do not seem to be many requests for large tactical fixed blades, although I did see one fellow asking for a Ka-Bar, so there is a place for some of those too, I expect.
We may encounter a bit of a disconnect if they need mostly folding knives and many of us are making fixed blades. We (fixed blade makers) may want to come up with a strategy to sell or raffle our knives to use the funds to purchase folders.
The requests from these units are often given in the form of links to items on webpages, but I think this is for expedience in most cases. Their needs in some cases may be very specific but the majority are not terribly picky. Many of them deployed with cheap knives from the PX, have broken them through hard use, and are unable to replace them with anything decent. In this scenario just about anything you send them can be used, including cheapie pocketknives and multi-tools if that is all we can send.
If you want to read some of the requests from these contacts PM me and I will direct you to the webpage. The contacts are representing anywhere from 2 or 3 guys to a few hundred, so quantity is entirely up to you and what you want to contribute.My thought is to try to get a feel for how many/what type of knives we can come up with, then select a unit or a few to try to affect with our effort, but I am waiting to see what others may have in mind.

murphda2
09-27-2010, 04:04 PM
From a soldiers perspective, I find that smaller blades are more usefull for multiple tasks. The ones I have been working on lately to test for my next "vacation" are approximately 9" OAL. Here is a photo of a couple I am working on now. Please excuse my mistakes.

15389

Rock
09-27-2010, 11:08 PM
The military issue of Blade said most service people will not carry a fixed blade over 5". I think this project might be a wonderful opportunity for makers to make their cosmetic seconds useful and still be proud of their work! Just add a 2nd stencil over the makers mark or under it that says 2ND so there can be no doubt!

Justin King
09-28-2010, 07:12 PM
I bought some cheap (10$ each) locking folders and my wife dug up some old swiss army-type knives, to add to my "volunteer" knife, and I shipped them out along with some other items this afternoon to the AF firefighters I mentioned earlier in the thread. The folders are pretty crappy but the best I could come up with on short notice and a modest budget, and they should be sufficient to rip a seat belt. I saw to it that they were sharp at least before boxing them up, so if nothing else they can clip them someplace in a vehicle or something where a spare blade might come in handy.
15456







MY wife and I will be sending more packages out within the next month or so and my intent is to try to round up some more knives to send. I am going to extend an open invitation to anyone who wants to donate a knife, either handmade or production, used or new. If you get it to me I will send it on to a unit that is requesting knives. PM me if anyone wants to do this.

Alternately, if anyone else decides to send a package over and is willing to send some knives along from other folks, please post here in advance. I think it is best to gang up our efforts/donations into a single package and try to save these guys the trouble of deciding which 1 or 2 guys in their unit needs a knife the most.

I have sent quite a few packages myself and will offer any help I can to anyone who is having trouble with the details/customs forms/etc.
The forms do not seem to be well designed for this purpose and can be a bit confusing the first few times.

Big Smitty
09-28-2010, 11:07 PM
David from Greatlakes Water Jet did a help the military knife give away sometime back. I helped by getting some sheaths from Spec Ops donated and Alex S. donated his dog tag knife also. I think there was 20 knives made. From his posts here he appears to be willing to help. I would be willing to help in any way in colaboration with everyone. We could look at doing a mid tech straight knife and look for donated material ect and get some help from the forum members with blade beveling and profile clean up and look for some help on heat treat.

How many knives are you looking for? Here is a design that may work. It has a 4" blade, 9 inch overall length and 1.25" tall. Just let me know how I can assit.:35:

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm126/pdsmith777/PDSMilEDC3.jpg

Justin King
09-28-2010, 11:56 PM
David from Greatlakes Water Jet did a help the military knife give away sometime back. I helped by getting some sheaths from Spec Ops donated and Alex S. donated his dog tag knife also. I think there was 20 knives made. From his posts here he appears to be willing to help. I would be willing to help in any way in colaboration with everyone. We could look at doing a mid tech straight knife and look for donated material ect and get some help from the forum members with blade beveling and profile clean up and look for some help on heat treat. How many knives are you looking for? here is a design that may work. It has a 4" blade. Just let me know how I can assit.:35:

Maybe you and I and Dave should get together and see what we can come up with? I am not exactly a heavy hitter in terms of production capability but I can grind, HT in limited numbers, shape and mount grips, and bend kydex, among other things.

As for how many knives, the more the better is the only answer I can really give. It may be complicated to try to select a particular unit and produce enough knives for all of them. I will PM you with more info.

Ironwolf
09-29-2010, 12:03 AM
God bless ya'll,this is gaining some great momentum...
I wish the heck I was set up,and had the skill to contribute something to this.
If I had some $$ and a shop set up right now, I could at least profile some blades.
Once I AM set up I'd like to do what I can: I'll rough out some blades if someone can grind the blade bevels and h.t. them.

Big Smitty
09-29-2010, 12:20 AM
Hey Justin,
I just noticed we are practically neighbors. I am in Gilbert. Anyway, I am sure David will come along and comment with his thoughts.

Justin King
09-29-2010, 01:01 AM
Smitty, I was typing you a PM but the ghost in my computer got hungry again and ate it...it may be just as well since my brain is trying to go a few different directions at once with this, I think I'm just about used up for today.
I am going to suggest a modest goal for the moment: I would like to send 5 more small fixed blades or stout one-handed folders to the group of guys I mailed the package to this afternoon, so that all 6 of them have at least one nice knife. For now I am off to bed so will leave it at that for the moment and pick this up again tomorrow.

Justin King
09-29-2010, 09:33 AM
God bless ya'll,this is gaining some great momentum...
I wish the heck I was set up,and had the skill to contribute something to this.
If I had some $$ and a shop set up right now, I could at least profile some blades.
Once I AM set up I'd like to do what I can: I'll rough out some blades if someone can grind the blade bevels and h.t. them.
I would welcome your involvement in any way you can/want to help. I want to leave his effort open to as many people as possible. There are frequent requests for things like multitools and flashlights also so donations of money or merchandise of that type can be added to the list of items. I am a little sensitive about asking people or businesses for money but the possibility is there to do some good that way too. This is very much a throw it in the pot type of effort right now. I have packages going over regularly already so I can piggyback just about anything someone wants to donate into an outbound box and select an appropriate contact on the fly to send it to.

whiteeugene
09-29-2010, 03:54 PM
KnifeKits.com has a lot of folder kits that would meet there needs I would think one of the $20-30 knifes if build right would far exceed the quality of the knife's at the PX or other department stores.

murphda2
09-29-2010, 04:34 PM
Justin and I spoke this afternoon and we were discussing ways of identifying individual service members who may be in need of a quality knife. Does anyone currently have a friend or family member who might be or be in the preperation phase of heading "down range"?

Justin King
09-29-2010, 04:55 PM
I forgot to mention when we spoke, my wife's friend has a son who is deployed (and carrying a knife with my name on it:biggrin:) . I am not sure what contacts he has over there but will see if we can get in touch with him.

Ironwolf
09-29-2010, 09:03 PM
KnifeKits.com has a lot of folder kits that would meet there needs I would think one of the $20-30 knifes if build right would far exceed the quality of the knife's at the PX or other department stores.

Linville Knife and Tool also has some very reasonably priced and sturdy kits/finished folders.
I've picked up a couple folder kits from LKT (Tim Britton),and was fairly happy with the quality for the price.

RodneyJ
09-29-2010, 10:43 PM
I'm willing to help but my equipmnent for grinding is super slow. can help with handles are putting together kits. I met a young man the other day that is deploying with in the next 8 months and commited to build one for him. Was thinking about something on the larger side untill I read the post from Murph and Rock guess I need to scale it down a little

God Bless
Rodney

Justin King
10-03-2010, 10:35 AM
Got an email this morning from the Airmen/Firefighters that I sent the knives to last week. That box must have been smokin' when it arrived, I just sent it a few days ago. Just knowing the package made it there is cool, but the gratitude these guys show at this kind of support makes me feel like a million bucks.
Anyway, I just wanted to pass that on and bump this thread up for some weekend viewing. I am hoping that we will have something moving on this idea soon and if nothing else I am going to try to get something in motion on my own.
I want to thank everyone who has shown an interest in this.

y0ukn0wwh0
10-05-2010, 12:12 AM
Not a maker but surely a buyer... If I or people like me can help, I would buy a knife for a soldier.
Heck I could do a Knife / Cigar / Movie / care package.
PM me and I'll see what I can do to help
YKW

murphda2
10-05-2010, 08:46 PM
I've had the opportunity to make contact with First Sergeants of a couple of mobilizing units from Idaho and Montana who are heading "down range" soon. I explained to them that I was a member of an organization which would like to give moral support to selected soldiers who could use a boost. It seems that each of the 1SGs I met with have a qualifying soldier or two. One of them has two soldiers who are unmarried and whose families are all deceased, where as the other has a soldier who is 19 yrs old and is the primary bread winner for his parents and siblings.

I do not yet have further details on the above mentioned soldiers, but I have contact information for each of the First Sergeants. I have told each of them that I would be in touch in the near future in order to request possible needs or desires for each of the soldiers so that we may put together a package or two for them.

Curtiss Knives
10-05-2010, 08:49 PM
Guys, you know how I am when it comes to military. I'm a 12 year Navy vet, so I will do what I can. Just ask.

Justin King
10-05-2010, 09:14 PM
Thanks for the update, Murph. There is still no general game plan for this yet, I guess that part is on me. I will be out of town over the weekend and into next week, after I get back I may make a few bars of steel or blanks availible to a few guys who want to make, or work on, a knife for this.

whiteeugene
10-06-2010, 08:04 AM
I’ll throw in some supplies Justin SS tube, SS Colby Bolts, green canvas Micarta. PM me with your address I’ll have the stuff drop shipped to you place then you can send it with the steel.

Justin King
10-06-2010, 08:36 AM
I’ll throw in some supplies Justin SS tube, SS Colby Bolts, green canvas Micarta. PM me with your address I’ll have the stuff drop shipped to you place then you can send it with the steel.

I appreciate the offer, but I would rather if you would hang on to them for now. I am going to be out of town into next week and don't want to have packages sitting on my doorstep while I am away. We are also in the infantile planning stages and I don't want to be holding someone else's donated material until I know where it is going.
I want to thank everyone again who has shown an interest in helping this effort.

Curtiss Knives
10-06-2010, 09:20 AM
Justin and Murph, if you guys want to start some sort of build for this, I will do the cutting. We need input for the design of the knife and what materials to be used. I have some materials here, but it may not be the right stuff for this project. Maybe Aldo will chip in steel. Maybe Brad at Peter's Heat Treat will do his goodness. I'll make some calls for all of this, but there needs to be a place to start. I will leave that to you guys. Just update me as we go.

Justin King
10-06-2010, 09:33 AM
Thank you very much for your offer, Dave. Murph and myself are looking into possibilities for the materials. I do not want any one participant to shoulder too much of the burden here and your offer is more than generous so let us see what we can come up with and go from there.
I am open to the design of the knife, so we can put that subject up for open discussion. I have a couple of designs we could use but am not trying to push my own here so if anyone has a design they would like to offer up lets see it! There has been at least one offered up already in this thread and it looks good to me. Any more?

whiteeugene
10-06-2010, 11:52 AM
Both Murph's and Big Smitty's look good, if they were waterjet cut you could have some of the new makers help with the grinding and assembly. Depending on the thickness and type of steel you might even be able to have them heat treated then send them to someone to finish the grinding and assembly. You may even want to consider a mark that says something like Knife's for solders Knife Dog's or ????? something that identifies the forum. Let me know what you need and I'll provide what support I can.

Curtiss Knives
10-06-2010, 11:59 AM
I think a "Knife Dogs Military" stencil is a great idea!

Curtiss Knives
10-06-2010, 12:05 PM
Look on USA knifemaker's site at the tactical fixed that I do and see if anything catches your eye.

Justin King
10-06-2010, 06:45 PM
Thanks to Aldo's generosity we now have some 3/16" A2 steel to get this going with. I decided on A2 on the fly because it is easy to work and the heat treat is predictable. I can do the HT for at least some of the makers who do a build, assuming they cannot do it themselves and that we don't come up with a better option by then.
We now need to come to a consensus on the design. I am inclined to go with something in the neighborhood of 8-10" in length, this seems to be a practical size for the areas that most of our our guys are operating in. Both Murph's and Big Smitty's designs fit this bill. If anyone else has a design to throw out, now is the time. I am leaving town tomorrow for several days and may not have internet so if we can come to a decision before then I will pony the shipping costs to get everything on it's way to Dave for cutting.
I also have a pattern for the knife pictured below, which is 10" overall.
Vote?
15792

Curtiss Knives
10-06-2010, 07:03 PM
Well I guess its time people start putting some ideas to paper. Draw what you think would be a good design and post a pic of it here.

whiteeugene
10-06-2010, 09:12 PM
Thanks to Aldo's generosity we now have some 3/16" A2 steel to get this going with. I decided on A2 on the fly because it is easy to work and the heat treat is predictable. I can do the HT for at least some of the makers who do a build, assuming they cannot do it themselves and that we don't come up with a better option by then.
We now need to come to a consensus on the design. I am inclined to go with something in the neighborhood of 8-10" in length, this seems to be a practical size for the areas that most of our our guys are operating in. Both Murph's and Big Smitty's designs fit this bill. If anyone else has a design to throw out, now is the time. I am leaving town tomorrow for several days and may not have internet so if we can come to a decision before then I will pony the shipping costs to get everything on it's way to Dave for cutting.
I also have a pattern for the knife pictured below, which is 10" overall.
Vote?
15792

That’s a great design how do you think it would look with a distal taper and hollow or convex grind that would leave a little more meet on it. I had a flat ground blade one time and it chipped when I tried to open an ammo crate.

Justin King
10-06-2010, 09:33 PM
That’s a great design how do you think it would look with a distal taper and hollow or convex grind that would leave a little more meet on it. I had a flat ground blade one time and it chipped when I tried to open an ammo crate.

Dunno, maybe we will find out though. One of the things I am starting to look forward to is what different makers turn out after starting with the same blank. But we need to decide on a blank that some makers want to build, so line 'em up and let's see 'em!

BossDog
10-06-2010, 10:02 PM
15798

I will donate as many pairs of these carmel brown scales as needed if anyone is interested.

Justin King
10-06-2010, 10:37 PM
Thank you, Tracy! I/we will be in touch with you when we know who and how many. There are a lot of details to work out still but this is starting to take shape and I want to thank everyone who has shown interest, and especially those who have stepped up to get this going. I am going to volunteer to cover the initial shipping fees to get the materials where they need to go.

HHH Knives
10-06-2010, 10:43 PM
Hello, I have been watching this post for a few days now. I want to get in on this 4sure! This is a great way to help out or troops.

I just started doing a design we call Black Hawk.. Its a 8 1/4 inch OAL fixed. that might be good for these guys. I do it with a convex grind. but it could be done as a hollow grind for sure.. It also allows for the addition of a secondary edge depending on how ya want to grind it!

If/when we get everything figured out.. I can make a few knives no matter what design we go with. I want to make a couple. heck I can a small batch of them!
Will Someone please give me a shout when its time to start throwing sparks! IM READY!

God bless you all..
Randy

calharkins
10-06-2010, 11:13 PM
Here is a design I have been working on. It is free to use or modify. I am in to make a knife.
15800

murphda2
10-06-2010, 11:51 PM
I'll try to have a design posted tomorrow evening sometime. I just got in from the shop and have to hit the sack. I'm starting a new training lane tomorrow and have an extremely early start (0400) :(

tom o.
10-07-2010, 09:38 AM
Good Morning,
yes this is a great idea! But what are the requirements for the knife?
I have four deer hunting knives on my bench right know that need to be finished.

Justin King
10-07-2010, 09:53 AM
Good Morning,
yes this is a great idea! But what are the requirements for the knife?
I have four deer hunting knives on my bench right know that need to be finished.
We have not discussed any ridgid requirements. I would like to leave this effort as open as possible to different levels of involvement, so if you have a knife in progress that you want to build for this that is fine, it dosen't have to be a big tactical style blade. On the 2nd page of this thread there is a picture of a small utility knife that I sent over, the overall length was about 7-1/2". Some guys actually seem to prefer these smaller knives.
You are welcome to put in for one of the blanks also, if you want to do a build with one of those.

Justin King
10-07-2010, 01:41 PM
I am headed out and may not be online much for the next several days, so you fellows can hash through designs as you see fit and I will be back on when I can. Have a good weekend!

Curtiss Knives
10-07-2010, 02:45 PM
My humble drawing.
15823

Ironwolf
10-07-2010, 02:53 PM
Here's a hunter/utility design I drew up last year,could be made bigger...?
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n49/wolf-rat_2006/Ironwolf%20Knife%20Designs/WolfPup.jpg

Tune_up
10-07-2010, 04:05 PM
I'm a new maker but would be happy to help in any way. Given materials I will grind/polish/assemble, contribute $ to help defray cost or given a design and suggested materials I'll do a complete build (except HT).

calharkins
10-07-2010, 09:33 PM
My humble drawing.
15823

Nothing humble about that Dave!!! Really looks good. What is OAL and blade width?

Iron Wolf, that looks like a really great knife as well.

BruceM
10-07-2010, 10:40 PM
Hey guys, I have some different canvas and linen base micartas that I would be willing to donate. I could start with four pair of scales.

Curtiss Knives
10-08-2010, 07:43 AM
Nothing humble about that Dave!!! Really looks good. What is OAL and blade width?

Iron Wolf, that looks like a really great knife as well.

Cal, each square is 1 inch in my grid.

Nowicki
10-08-2010, 09:39 PM
I'll do a few. I have a design in mind similar to the bird and trout I posted in my forum,http://knifedogs.com/showthread.php?12835-Got-a-little-recurve-bird-and-trout-in-the-works. Thinking a little longer blade and slightly wider handle. I'm kind of liking a cordwrap but scales would work too.
http://knifedogs.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=15839&d=1286493013

Pieter
10-09-2010, 11:41 AM
Nothing humble about that Dave!!! Really looks good. What is OAL and blade width?

Iron Wolf, that looks like a really great knife as well.

Cal I agree nothing humble obout that design it looks great.

murphda2
10-09-2010, 12:11 PM
I have meant to post a design, but my days keep getting shorter and shorter with the training lanes I'm working. All if my posts have been during breaks in rotations and done from my phone while in the field. I'm supposed to be down tomorrow so I will do my best to get a design posted.

whiteeugene
10-10-2010, 07:10 PM
Here's a hunter/utility design I drew up last year,could be made bigger...?
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n49/wolf-rat_2006/Ironwolf%20Knife%20Designs/WolfPup.jpg

From what Rock said that looks to be about the right size, I think most of these guys just want an EDC something they can use that doesn't get in the way when they try and get in and out of vehicles or something they can slip on their belt and have it handy. I ask my sons both have had multiple tours in Iraq and Afghanistan as medics, and they say most of the guys just need something to open boxes, cut rope or strap just general purpose stuff. Both said a big knife just gets in the way and for the most part if they aren't out on patrol their LBE just hangs on they bunks.

Ironwolf
10-10-2010, 07:56 PM
When I was working for North America Constructers here in North Van, building a Water Filtration facility,
I was with the Earthworks Department,(they called us groundpounders).
I was one of the main grunts,the "MacGyver" guy,doing any and everything...
My Swamp Rat HRLM was my go-to knife,often pressed into service cutting 1" banding straps off loads of pvc pipe,
scraping concrete spatter off of steel pipe walls,even being used as a sawzall!
In short,my HRLM was used very much like I imagine a soldier would need to use theirs.
If I had the means,I would make a knife as close to the HRLM as possible;
toughest danged knife I've ever (ab)used!!
HRLM specs are OAL: 9 3/16" Blade 4 3/16" Handle: 5" Width: 1 3/8" Thickness: 3/16"
SR101 steel (modded 52100)
(this is me using my HRLM and a 32 oz Eastwing framing hammer as a "sawzall" to cut grab-points into 1" plywood forms that got backfilled by accident)
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n49/wolf-rat_2006/Hard%20working%20Rat/SSPX0495.jpg
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n49/wolf-rat_2006/Hard%20working%20Rat/SSPX0496.jpg

murphda2
10-10-2010, 08:04 PM
OK, sorry for the delay. I finally got off of my butt and modified a sketch a bit for this. My scanner is acting stupid, so I had to take a photo of it. I hope the photo is clear enough for you guys.

15938

Ironwolf
10-10-2010, 08:24 PM
That's cool,and plenty clear!

Pieter
10-11-2010, 06:16 AM
Love the design looks like a handy all purpose knife.

Ironwolf
10-11-2010, 12:20 PM
maybe without the exaggerated recurve (be a bugger to sharpen in the field)?
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n49/wolf-rat_2006/Ironwolf%20Knife%20Designs/purelytactical.jpg

Steven Janik
10-11-2010, 01:08 PM
Hey murph, would one of the little sport/utility models i call "KantLooz" work if it were blacked up a little.
See my post on custom knife forum.

Steve

Bill T
10-11-2010, 01:52 PM
Being former Military , I've been watching this thread with great interest . If I read it right so far , you're 1) going to vote on a design 2) having Dave cut out Aldo's steel 3) looking for makers to grind and assemble the blanks . I love the idea of a Knife Dogs marked blade that we can donate as a community effort .
I was going to submit a design , but those submitted all have merit . I think the goals set out at the beginning have been met with them .
What about the sheaths though ? Are you thinking Kydex or Mil-Spec Nylon or Cordura with Mil style clips .
I would love to be involved with the knife making process , whatever is required . I have no experience with Kydex , although I have bought 3rd party Cordura for some of my models .
I'm in for a penny , in for a pound . If we need to buy a decent Mil sheath , pay for heat treat - whatever , I'm in .
How many blanks are we looking at with just what Aldo has donated - just trying to get an idea of how large or small an effort is needed .
Are we looking at supplying a platoon or individuals spread across the Services ? Or Family and Friends heading out ?
There's alot going on here , and it's all very exciting . I'm behind whatever is decided upon ....
Bill

murphda2
10-11-2010, 03:01 PM
Good looking design IW.

"Doc Shiffer" and I had a good discussion about recurves a week or so ago. Recurves have become quite popular lately and have a great fuction as a "fighting knife". They offer a great bite when slashing at an opponent and even offer a bit of an advantage if used for chopping. The simple fact is that the largest percentage of soldiers will never use thier knife as a fighting knife. I'm not a SOCOM Operator, just your average everyday infantry soldier who loves and always carries a knife. Throughout my three deployments, I've yet to need a knife for fighting but I have used them for a multitood of utilitarian tasks.

The major problem IMO with recurves is that many people have a hard time sharpening them. Keep in mind that your average soldier is a knife user, but sucks at maintaining them. The majority of the soldiers I work with now and have worked with in the past have always brought thier knives to me for maintenance (sharpening and cleaning). Once again, IMO, the perfect knife for your average soldier should be a relatively simple utilitarian design that is easy to maintain. Most soldiers use thier knives for the same tasks that anyone else will use a knife for (opening boxes, cutting straps, rope, cords, etc.). The reason Rock and I each recommended smaller blades is that they are much easier to carry and use for multiple tasks.

Steve, your "Kantlooz" looks like a great little design. No need to "black it up", just anything other than BLAZE Orange, LOL.

Things I think we need to look at regardless of the design we choose are:

OAL: Approximately 10" (or less)
Blade Design: Utilitarian design which will be easy to maintain.
Handle design: "Comfortable" (nothing which will cause hot spots)
Sheath Design: Simple with multiple mounting configurations (ie. eyelets for use of Tek-Lok or Molle-Lok) this can be either kydex or leather, but keep in mind that leather will require maintenance in extreme heat and dust and will retain moisture during humid times.
Handle/Sheath Color: OD, tan, brown, or grey (anything not highly visible or black).

Though I have used black for sheaths for soldiers, it's not the best color to use. Keep in mind that black absorbs alot of heat when exposed to sunlight for extended periods of time and may cause distortion in kydex type material. Additionally, there's nothing worse than grabbing a black handled knife with your bare hand after being in 130 deg. heat for an hour or two.

Keep in mind, this is all just my $0.02 on the subject. I'm not an expert, but I am a soldier and I've been "down range" and know what has worked or not worked for me.

Big Smitty
10-11-2010, 05:17 PM
On a past project I was able to get Spec Ops to donate 20 sheaths for a military knife build. I'll help with this and anything else if needed.

Ironwolf
10-11-2010, 07:21 PM
Thanks Murph,and I agree 100% with the parameters for the design.
I lean towards designs that focus more on utility,that would serve well as a weapon if need be,
and this tanto recurve is my 1st foray into a singular purpose design.
(I did it up mostly just for fun,having never really designed a fightin' knife before).
Most of my more recent ideas feature a "curve-less recurve" blade:
The belly sits lower than the heel of the blade,and it's a straight edge to the sweet-spot.
Looks at first glance like a re-curve,and functions much like one,but easy to sharpen.
I'll post a drawing soon.

Justin King
10-11-2010, 09:33 PM
I'm back and liking the designs I see! I have to agree with Murph on the recurved designs for the same reason, although other than that detail I think any of the designs would serve.
I am just off a plane or two and headed to bed, but I thought I'd leave you all with a vacation photo that should go over well with this crowd. Ears are still ringing a little:biggrin:
15965

murphda2
10-11-2010, 09:43 PM
LOL, great pic Justin. I had the chance to consume a few recreational beverages with a group of Blue Angel pilots at the Adam's Mark in Memphis back in '99. Heck of a nice group of guys.

Justin King
10-15-2010, 08:44 PM
I am going to propose a last call for designs and a vote from everyone who wants to do a build so we can get this moving. I managed to let the whole week pass without calling Aldo about getting the steel shipped (I know, boo on me) but until we have a design nailed down this ain't going to happen. I will be in touch with Aldo first thing Mon.

We do not know how many blanks will be availible and will not until Dave has the steel and the design in hand, so please keep this in mind if you want to volunteer to do a build. We will make them availible to as many as we can but cannot promise anything at this point.

To everyone who has offered to donate materials for the build, thank you for your offers! I or someone else involved will contact you when we know who needs what.

Nowicki
10-16-2010, 08:17 AM
I'm in for whatever design we decide on. My EDC is 7" overall. I call it my urban defender. It is a fixed blade but I'm thinking of turning it into a folder too. Somewhere David already has the profile file and could scale it up a little if desired.
http://www.nowickicustomknives.com/imagenes/sawtooth_fighter_s.jpg

Bill T
10-16-2010, 01:51 PM
Like I said earlier , ALL the designs submitted so far have merit . I really do like them all . As a matter of fact , I would like to MAKE them all . It's a shame we have to chose just one .. And at the risk of hurting anyones feelings , I'll start out the voting with my choice .
I cast my vote for Randy of HHH knives . I think that it is a stout design , that has been thought out very well . The handle design looks safe and has enough flair to it , to still give it plenty of character . I like the wide blade with or without the secondary edge . One of the reasons I chose it was because it was the only design I wouldn't have made any changes to .
Part of the selection process for me is also thinking about Aldo and Dave . This design doesn't seem like a steel waster and looks like anyone can grind it out if need be . I say that because I have a 2x42 with a flat platen only . It makes it hard to do tight , small curves with it .
I think the sheath will be pretty straight-forward to get/make as well .
Like I said , I liked all the designs , but we HAVE to pick just ONE .
I look forward to hear what the rest of you think .
Thanks , Bill

Ironwolf
10-16-2010, 07:28 PM
I'm trying to get my scanner set back up;
I have 2-3 designs I drew up just for this...
will get 'em posted tonight!
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n49/wolf-rat_2006/Ironwolf%20Knife%20Designs/IronWolfDesignTac-Muk925.jpg
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n49/wolf-rat_2006/Ironwolf%20Knife%20Designs/IronWolfDesignEntry2875.jpg
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n49/wolf-rat_2006/Ironwolf%20Knife%20Designs/IronWolfPackRat.jpg
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n49/wolf-rat_2006/Ironwolf%20Knife%20Designs/2and3Fingerknifedesigns_0004.jpg

whiteeugene
10-17-2010, 10:56 AM
IronWolf I like the flow of the Lil' Pack Rat it looks like the ones I'm sending now very similar in size and shape, but with a convex or scandi grind. From my own experience soldiers tend to use knifes to chop and pry not so much slice. Also the sedge may weaken the tip the example of using a knife to cut a slot out of plywood with a hammer, well that is something a soldier would do only he wouldn’t have a hammer so he would probably use a pipe or tree branch. For my youngest sons first tour I sent him a Leatherman, they were living in conex’s with only the big metal door’s he scrounged some plywood and used the saw blade on the Leatherman to cut full sheets for doors and a rock and the knife blade to notch the wood out so he could saw openings for screen.

I'm in with what ever design you guys chose.

Justin King
10-17-2010, 11:37 AM
I am working on a mid-size design that I think is a better candidate for this than my first submission, it is a bit more compact and less wasteful of material.

16107

I also wanted to comment that whatever design we choose is open to some interpetation by whoever grinds the blank-unless we come to a decision beforehand, details like false edges and grind styles will be up to the individual maker and there is bound to be some variation. I am ok with this as long as we all realize that these knives will be used harder than the average hunting knife, and work with this in mind. Should we be discussing things like minimum edge thickness?

Justin King
10-18-2010, 07:44 PM
So, if I join Bill T and vote for HHH's design too, it will be unanimous...no one else voting?

murphda2
10-18-2010, 08:25 PM
I didn't realize we were putting this to a vote yet. Why don't we take the designs and start a new thread and run a Poll for a few days. What do you think Justin?

Rudy Joly
10-18-2010, 08:31 PM
I think Murph has a design with nice flow to it and the blade width and style is open to tweeks by individual makers. I'm not a "tactical" guy but that's my 2 pennies worth. I may be tempted to grind one out.

Rudy

Justin King
10-18-2010, 08:42 PM
I didn't realize we were putting this to a vote yet. Why don't we take the designs and start a new thread and run a Poll for a few days. What do you think Justin?

Suits me. I was also thinking about editing the first post of this thread to include a running list of everyone who has volunteered or contributed so far. Aldo and Dave deserve a big mention and not everyone will read 9 pages back to see it. If you want to do the poll thread, I will compile a list of the participants/volunteers and put that up. I have never done a poll thread but if you don't have time I will blunder my way around until I figure it out.

Justin King
10-18-2010, 08:45 PM
I think Murph has a design with nice flow to it and the blade width and style is open to tweeks by individual makers. I'm not a "tactical" guy but that's my 2 pennies worth. I may be tempted to grind one out.

Rudy

I agree, I am still not sure what my vote will be. There are a few designs here that I really like, Murph's is one of them.

murphda2
10-18-2010, 08:50 PM
Heck, I've never done one either. I guess that since I'm supposed to know how to do these things (being a Mod and all), I'll give it a shot. Let me go back and save copies of all of the designs and I'll try to get one started.

HHH Knives
10-18-2010, 10:13 PM
Hello, I have been watching this post for a few days now. I want to get in on this 4sure! This is a great way to help out or troops.

I just started doing a design we call Black Hawk.. Its a 8 1/4 inch OAL fixed. that might be good for these guys. I do it with a convex grind. but it could be done as a hollow grind for sure.. It also allows for the addition of a secondary edge depending on how ya want to grind it!

If/when we get everything figured out.. I can make a few knives no matter what design we go with. I want to make a couple. heck I can a small batch of them!
Will Someone please give me a shout when its time to start throwing sparks! IM READY!

God bless you all..
Randy

Murph, Heres a sketch of the Black Hawk.. per your request.

BruceM
10-18-2010, 10:30 PM
Hey Randy that Black Hawk is a nice lookin' knife, wouldn't mind having one of those myself
Bruce

BruceM
10-18-2010, 10:35 PM
Wow Ironwolf! You came up with some pretty cool designs. Like the Tac-Muk and Lil Pak Rat.