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View Full Version : What would you like to see in a Heat Treating Video



BossDog
08-12-2010, 05:58 PM
I have started work on a video about heat treating.

What would you like to see in one?

Ernie Swanson
08-12-2010, 06:40 PM
How about some steel getting heat treated:)

I am interested in watching the whole operation on some stainless like CPM154 and maybe some carbon like 1095!!

D.Douglas
08-12-2010, 07:03 PM
Id be up for some 1095. I got a couple little neckers from you that i am going to grind on pretty soon.

James Terrio
08-12-2010, 07:53 PM
I imagine it could be a two-part deal, one for air-hardening steels and one for oil-quenched stuff. It would be cool to see basic stuff like finishing/prepping a blade for HT, properly wrapping a stainless blade in foil, getting it out of the foil afterwards, and correcting minor warps while the blade is still warm. Safety procedures are always good, too. Things that guys like me kind of understand from reading about it, but haven't actually seen done.

Mark Behnke
08-12-2010, 08:03 PM
Plate quenching.

Bob Warner
08-12-2010, 09:02 PM
Having been into knife making for a quite some time and getting hit with questions, a LOT of questions, I think a good basic explanation of what happens in the steel during hardening and tempering would be a good idea.

What changes to what during the heating, why soak at temp? The materials are doing a metamorphosis and it would be nice if people actually understood what that is. There are a lot of people that have heard of different things and try to sound like a scientist when they ask questions but they actually are bass ackwards in what they understand.

Why do we heat to non-magnetic with carbon steels? Explain what is happening inside the steel to make it go non-magnetic. What does Cryo do that makes things better than the knives that built this country which were not Cryo'd. Is there enough difference between a cryo'd blade and one that is not to be worth the cost and effort to get set up to do cryo?

Maybe a recipe for each steel type and how to treat it. Stainless and non-stainless. Forge heat treating and oven treating for carbon steels.

Show what happens to a blade if you don't wrap it in foil. Maybe I don't mind dealing with scale if I can avoid the cost of wrapping them. Is there another reason I MUST wrap?

Quench plates: Do they have to be aluminum? Don Robinson uses steel, some people don't use plates at all. Is one method better than the others and is the amount worth the cost to get set up?

Show how to straighten a blade that warped and explain when to do it.

I would show hardening Stainless in an oven, Carbon in an oven and carbon in a forge. Tempering in an oven and a forge.

Explain the quench. Why heat the oil before quenching? Explain flash points and the dangers of fires when quenching.

I would show how to test the blade, brass rod test, cutting , chopping, etc...........

I would also destroy the blade and show what the grain looks like inside of a properly heat treated blade, carbon and stainless.

Assume the viewer knows nothing and you have to explain it all. You have to explain the terms and what they mean also as the viewer may not know what you are talking about.

You could do an advanced version that eliminates the basic "this means that" wording and shows specific tasks like differential heat treating, how to quench daggers to get hamons on both edges and other tricks of the trade.

Try to avoid graphs and stuff like that and explain things like regular people talk

.

A.W.Stovall
08-12-2010, 10:05 PM
Yes a sticky on known treating recipes for common steels, I like the idea of a heat treating forum.

RodneyJ
08-12-2010, 10:20 PM
uhh how about what Bob said

Fergy35
08-12-2010, 10:51 PM
I think Bob hit it on the head. I have just started and I would like to see a video on this. I have been using O1 so far and would like to know if I did it right.

A.W.Stovall
08-13-2010, 08:03 AM
Yeah Bob talks like a regular person for an engineer
Anthony

silver_pilate
08-13-2010, 09:06 AM
I'd like to see grain refinement with thermal cycling and then normalizing prior to heat treating for forged blades.

--nathan

Mark Behnke
08-13-2010, 11:01 AM
Definition of terms.

Types of steel into groups.

Types of Quench medium:
oil, water, fast, slow etc.

quenchant, matched with type of steel.

James Terrio
08-13-2010, 11:13 AM
Nathan's post reminds me of this: annealing and/or normalizing prior to grinding for us stock-removal guys. It seems that barstock isn't always as fully-annealed as we would like it to be.

CTaylorJr
08-13-2010, 07:10 PM
uhh how about what Bob said

Yeah, pretty much... I was thinking SOME of those before I read his post, and now I'm CURIOUS about the rest of them...

Charlie

BossDog
08-13-2010, 08:41 PM
Nearly everything mentioned so far is on the list and will be done or discussed to some degree. At this point I will go over a high level review of what happens during hardening and quenching. It won't be a metallurgy course.

12345678910
08-13-2010, 09:36 PM
http://www.archive.org/download/gov.ntis.ava08799vnb1/ava08799vnb1_512kb.mp4

Mike Jones
08-14-2010, 09:20 AM
I'd like to see a video on a hamon... both HTing and polishing/etching.

BossDog
08-14-2010, 10:08 AM
I'd like to see a video on a hamon... both HTing and polishing/etching.

we'll do one quick hamon and etch it to see the results. enough to get the basics down.

calharkins
08-14-2010, 09:28 PM
1095 and O-1

Mike Jones
08-14-2010, 10:46 PM
we'll do one quick hamon and etch it to see the results. enough to get the basics down.

Thanks T! Another thought I had would be to have a sticky with HT recipes for some of the more common steels to at least give a starting point.

BossDog
08-14-2010, 10:48 PM
no stickies...no one reads them.

silver_pilate
08-14-2010, 11:25 PM
Mike, look for my thread titled heat treating data sheets for some good info. Thought it would be a good sticky, but I'll just have to bump it to the top everynnow and then.

--Nathan

Mike Jones
08-15-2010, 10:37 PM
Thanks Nathan! I'll check it out!

C Craft
08-16-2010, 08:47 AM
Start with the basics, most firstimers don't have fancy equipment!


1080 is one of the most used by first timers and work up with the higher carbon steels.

Don't leave out anything no matter how minuscule as that is just what someone copying the video will do!
Beyond that I can't wait to see the video! Any idea of a time frame?
Be sure to post somthing to let us know when it's out!!:happy:

franklin
07-13-2011, 05:05 PM
i just came across this was a vid ever made and were would one get it?

zbq
07-16-2011, 09:15 PM
Same here Franklin...I'd LOVE to have one!...

bubba-san
07-17-2011, 03:24 PM
Walter Sorrels has a great video on Hamons , one of the best I have seen . He even tells you how many seconds for quench.
Walter is a teacher and it comes across in his video .

McClellan Made Blades
07-18-2011, 11:05 AM
How bout a basic HT of !0XX steels using a forge? For the newbies getting started? The simple stuff isn't really simple until you KNOW how to do it!

Also, the proper set-up and placment of the kiln to quench, how far apart they should be, and explaining the amount of time the blade needs to be gotten into the quench, for newbs, I highly recommend doing several "dry" runs, or should I say "cold" runs, working out the potential problems that could arise BEFORE handling a 1500+ degree blade.

A basic to advanced video, starting with the 10XX steels AND explaining that all simple HC steels aren't created equal, 1095 isn't a beginner steel and does need extra attention where 1084 is the most forgving of them all. That knowledge for newbs is invaluable and offers them/us the best chance for success on their first try! Then advancing to the more difficult CPM steels, that would be great if it can be included in one video, but it sounds like it may take a series of videos to cover everything indepthly.

Don't underestimate that having a good looking presenter or narrator to explain things along the way, it's a GREAT selling point, I know I wouldn't want to look at my ugly mug demo'ing anything on video! Not that I wouldn't, it kinda sounds like fun!

Another good idea is focusing on ONE thing in a short video, that is precise and to the point, keeping the video short and being able to sell them cheap would help newbs on a budget be able to buy the ones they need, once they progress to the next stage, they buy the next video, while offering the entire set as an option. Either way it's great idea, and having it broken down to have series of videos that are budget minded, along with the more advanced full spectrum and ultimatley more expensive would be the best overall for all the different makers. Well, there's my 2 cents, Rex

Knifemaker.ca
07-19-2011, 12:13 AM
What Doug said! New makers need to expect either failure or "ping" a large amount of the time with 1095. So, starting formulas, reasonable expectations, and good ways to evaluate outcome would all be helpful. Wayne Goddard and Kevin Cashen are both respected knife makers. Care to compare their heat treat advice?

I don't know of any knifemaking book that recommends 1084 - but it's sure tough to beat for being forgiving - and for performance for that matter. If this video ever gets made, I tink the K.I.S.S. principle would be most helpful. On a related note, I think Kim Breed may have done a video on heat treating carbon steel.

Pedro G.
07-20-2011, 05:14 AM
Heat treating in a coal/charcoal forge. As in how to get an even heat and everything would be nice. :)

Cojab
11-25-2011, 08:58 PM
Any progress on the video Boss Dog. I'd be interested in it.

BossDog
11-25-2011, 10:12 PM
no progress, I shot some footage and was editing it and then we got to the point where we had to move the business into a warehouse and that just pushed it to the side. We will pick it back up again after the first of the year.

DonL
11-28-2011, 08:27 PM
I also would like to see some HT recipes for common steel as a sticky. Whenever I visit a forum for the first time, I read the stickies!!! I get so frustrated whenever I go to do some HT and have to look up a recipe and find a dozen or more recipes for the same steel. Like when I went to HT some 0-1 recently. I googled "how to heat treat 0-1 tool steel" and it was quite confusing trying to figure out which recipe to follow. And let's not even talk about 1095!!!

Also some in depth info on 1095. There are so many makers out there turning out good knives in 1095 that I can't believe it's as hard to get the HT as correct as some say. My first knives were in 1095 and they turned out alright. But after reading how difficult it's suppose to be, I shied away from buying more.

I have Kevin Cashen's HT video from the ABS and it's good and informative. But there were a few areas where it went right over my head!!! I imagine I'm like a lot of people, just show me how to HT a knife in 1095, 1084 or 0-1 (and the others) and go easy on all the "ites". I really could care less, I just need to know the proper process for each steel. I don't want a Metallurgy course!

Now that's a Video I would shell out some cold hard cash for!!