is it really handmade??

Guindesigns

Guindesigns

Well-Known Member
Im still very new at knife making and everything that goes with it. I started on a kmg grinder and not files, so I was wondering is that so bad that I didnt learn the hard way first?? I'm a 3rd genration knifes maker my grandfather (God rest his Soul) started when he was in the navy and brought it home and taught my dad when he was younger when they needed a good knife around the house. My father really got into it off shore where his works cause they get board and have alot of materal just lying around. well i got into it my senior year in highschool but i stared like i said on a kmg. My dad tells me mine arent what he call a true handmade knife. is he right? i mean i take a thought of a knife out of my head and turn it into soething real is that not a hand made knife i mean i use my hands alot during the process. lol Id like to learn how to by files and id loves to learn how to forge but right now i cant find anyone whos knows how should i just take it in my own hand and start to learn by myself?

any thoughts are welcome thank you for your time.

-Young Pup.
 
;) It's an old and common question that comes up often. Ask your dad if he forged his own billet of steel or if it came from an automated mill. There is no right or wrong answer to this question. Everyone has an opinion and it's worth exactly what you paid for it. I lean toward determining if the work is guided by hand. Clearly (to me) something done freehand on the grinder qualifies - and almost equally as clearly, CNC does not qualify as handmade (though it could still certainly qualify as a custom).

Of course, there is lots of ground in between including everything from a toolrest to a grindiing jig. Is a kit knife finished by hand a handmade? Everything the maker did was by hand but he started from a blank or blade rather than a billet. What about waterjet patterns. They don't remove any skill from the process - just save you 30 minutes grunting on a saw and half a belt, cleaning up the profile. If the skill part is all done by hand is it still a handmade?

I am sure the grand secret is to respect the tools and processes of all makers. Focus on our common passion instead of our different methods.

Rob!
 
Young Pup,
I did start with files and now only use a grinder and I still consider my knives handmade.

To me there is a point when people use CNC machinery that I start to say it may still be custom, but really not handmade. Opinions vary on this and it;s not my intention to start a big debate.

I do remember seeing a "Custom knife maker" at a show once that everyone of the knives on the table I had seen in a catalog of preground and HTed knives.
The man was a hobbyist Handler which is alright as long as you don't say that you ground or forged the blades.The man was A total fraud.

The best way to sum all this up is to make knives the way you want and enjoy and just be upfront to customers about the methods you use!

Laurence

www.rhinoknives.com
 
I think that your dad is being a little picky. Even if you forge your blades to rough shape first it takes a lot of grinding by hand to finish the blade so to me that makes the blade handmade. If, however, you are starting with finished blades ready to assemble and finish the knives from them, which is actually the traditional way of making knives, I would say that they are custom finished. The word for a person who does such work is cutler.

Doug
 
From what you say I would say your knives are hand made. I suggest you do not learn how to make knives with a file. I started this way, and it is a lot of work, but you have already learned how to do it on a grinder. There is nothing I can think of that you can learn by filing that will help you.
Your dad is nit picking.
 
I wish I started on a KMG . I started on a piece of junk rotary grinder with a wheel that was gonna fly off at any minutes notice when we turned it on . I dont think that you're doing anything wrong . I think your dad may be trying to say , If you started the way they did , you would really see the appriciation of the modern machine that your using , Instead of jumping into this gig so far advanced then they were.

If you take a piece of steel , cut the profile , grind in the bevels , fit the scales and put an edge on it , in my eyes that knife is hand made ! Keep at what your doing .Listen to your dad for suggestions . Make the best knives your two hands can possibly make and you'll be fine.
 
I'm going to another point of your post. Go to an ABS hammer in or take their intro course to learn basic blade forging. Great class, even nicer people. Knifemakers in general like to share what they know, ABS Bladesmiths LOVE to share & educate on the art.
 
I made it from raw materials with my hands....What else would it be called?

I suppose they could be called one-offs instead of production....
 
Thank you all for your words of wisdom i now see that i shouldnt judge my knives on what my fathers says. because honestly i make the better knife out of the two of us. hahaha but yall are right if i take a piece of bar steel and turn it into a usable knife using my hands than it is handmade. thank you all.

-Young pup.
 
Guindesigns said:
id loves to learn how to forge but right now i cant find anyone whos knows how
Click to expand...
Fill out your location, there may be a bladesmith near you who would be willing to show you the process. When I was starting out, I found out there was an excellent bladesmith just 20 miles from my home, and I learned more from him in a couple of days than I could have learned on my own in years. I did, however, have to clean his shop, and it was a 2 day job, but it was so worth it.
 
You are making handmade knives if you are taking raw materials and removing everything that isn't a knife. And is sounds like that is exactly what you are doing. You know how knife makers think...no pics it didn't happen. Post up some pics of your knives and fill out your profile and there might be a maker near you that could help you get into forging.
 
Ageless question grasshopper! Whether each and every facet of making the knife is done totally by hand or machine is introduced into the process it could be considered handmade.

I grew up a 4th generation carpenter. Yes by the time I had came along a lot of the old ways had been updated but it was still being done hands on and there are some processes that a machine can never duplicate. They might replicate the process but it will never be the same exact result!

I have learned as a carpenter and as a knife maker there are some processes that are just much easier accomplished on a machine than by hand, however I don't own a machine that I can place a part in and it be processed without my hands being on it. Handmade, the way I see it my hands must hold and guide the piece to be able to accomplish the end result!

I started out with files and sandpaper on my first knife. Although it gave me a unique perspective I don't think of that first knife as more handmade than the any of my other knives. Perhaps just harder to accomplish the end result!

So I guess handmade is defined somewhat in your state of mind as too what's handmade! IMHO I would have to say handmade, is something that the end result is accomplished by hands on!
 
Guindesigns said:
Id like to learn how to by files and id love to learn how to forge but right now i cant find anyone whos knows how should i just take it in my own hand and start to learn by myself?


-Young Pup.
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I have no-one to show me either. There are plenty of You tube videos you can watch. I simply made a forge from scrap, borrowed an anvil, and started hammering. Why wait for someone to come along and show you how?
 
thank you guys for all the support and the kind words. yall should check out my other thread my hog killer and see my work heck if you have any thoughts or comments im happy to take them. this one really shut my dad up though. thanks again

-Young Pup
 
Guindesigns said:
Im still very new at knife making and everything that goes with it. I started on a kmg grinder and not files, so I was wondering is that so bad that I didnt learn the hard way first?? I'm a 3rd genration knifes maker my grandfather (God rest his Soul) started when he was in the navy and brought it home and taught my dad when he was younger when they needed a good knife around the house. My father really got into it off shore where his works cause they get board and have alot of materal just lying around. well i got into it my senior year in highschool but i stared like i said on a kmg. My dad tells me mine arent what he call a true handmade knife. is he right? i mean i take a thought of a knife out of my head and turn it into soething real is that not a hand made knife i mean i use my hands alot during the process. lol Id like to learn how to by files and id loves to learn how to forge but right now i cant find anyone whos knows how should i just take it in my own hand and start to learn by myself?

any thoughts are welcome thank you for your time.

-Young Pup.
Click to expand...


you come from good roots.(LOL) find a video on "DRAW FILING" there are several out there, one I watched was from sugar creek forge. I was an eye opener. with a good file, I can shape a 3 to 4 inch blade 95% complete in 15 minutes or so. all you need is the blade, the file, something to mount the blade on(i use angle iron) and a vise. you hold the file about 90 degrees to the blade and pull or push. i have a piece of angle with holes that match the holes in the tang, nuts and bolts to hold it down. something i can throw in a vise and work on during break or slow times at the office.(another lol, the office is 3 1600 ton forging presses)
good luck
the old sailor
Scott Livesey AT1 USN(Ret.)
 
To bake a pie from scratch, you have to create a new universe. Handmade means nothing automated to me, all I grinder is really is a fast moving bit of sandpaper, if you control it then it is handmade. I guess you could say it isn't handmade if you use files and not your bare hands to grind it.
 
For what it's worth, if it isn't a production blade made by the various knife companies, then it's hand made, IMO.
 
LiamLynch said:
To bake a pie from scratch, you have to create a new universe. Handmade means nothing automated to me, all I grinder is really is a fast moving bit of sandpaper, if you control it then it is handmade. I guess you could say it isn't handmade if you use files and not your bare hands to grind it.
Click to expand...

And a mill bit is just a really fast moving piece of steel. :)

Handmade, at least to me, means that human hands had a big role in the final product, whether it be with files, grinder, forge/ anvil or a mill (check out Nathanthemachinest).
 
Handmade? Interesting question. Webster's defines "handmade" to be an adjective dating to 1613, "made by hand or a hand process." It seems to me that filing and sanding are clearly a hand process, but so is profiling and grinding a blade held by your hands against a belt grinder. So is shaping bolsters, guards, scales; peening and polishing. Seems to me, whenever you are holding the the piece (whatever it may be) to guide its shape or alter its present state, the piece, blade guard, etc. is handmade.

Jay
 
This kind of debate goes on in some of the firearm forums I frequent. Someone will either ask a question about or share an experience with building their own AR. It doesn't usually take more than three posts before some flaming intellectual informs them that if they did not mill the receiver from a block of aluminum and did not forge the barrel then they haven't built anything. All they have done is assemble a rifle. To this I say HOGWASH...and granted this is slightly off topic but of a similar nature. If you take a bar of steel and forge it or grind it in to the shape of a knife and you heat treat it and put handles on it then you have made a hand made knife. There is nothing wrong with using only files and sandpaper like they did in the old days...but the funny thing is if the blacksmith's of old had access to electricity and belt grinders they would have certainly used them. And they would have still considered the end result to be "Hand Made".
 
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