Choosing Handle thickness???

[Mark Barone]

Is there a gauge of how thick my scales should be before I epoxy to the blade? They seem to be about 3/8 thick when I buy them. My first blade was 1/8 inch thick steel and even after sanding the widest part, the scale was still 3/8. The same when I made my 3/16 blade. I dont want the handle to be too wide.
I don't have a planer but I feel I want to bring down the thickness a hair before I glue up. I hope I'm being clear.

 

[John Wilson]

The purpose of 3/8” thick scales is to allow for heavy contouring. For instance you may want a wide butt and palm swells. If you aren’t contouring the handle then 1/4” is plenty.

The other thing to consider is that a lot of handle material will not be flat when you go to use it. 3/8 scales that develop some warp or twist can be flattened and still leave you with .250 to .300 thickness whereas if you buy scales that are .250 or thinner when cut, and they develop warp later, you may not end up with enough after flattening.

 

[John Wilson]

The scales need to begin with enough thickness for the widest part of the finished handle. In this example the butt end is very wide. The rest of the scale is pretty much sanded away except for mild palm swells on this kitchen knife.

 

[John Wilson]

This handle is a simple tear drop profile on a small knife. 1/4 inch is plenty. You can always add liners if you want to fatten up the handle slightly.

 

[Mark Barone]

Thank you that's very helpful. Beautiful handle. I just added a piece of red liner to my scales. They are sitting in my vice now. I think I'll start there. Maybe next time I'll do triple liner. That is beautiful. Do you ever inset the pins inside the scales a bit so there is less pin sanding . Or is that a risky move?

 

[John Wilson]

Thank you for the compliments.

Grinding off the pins is a total non-issue on a 2x72. The grinder doesn’t even feel them. It has no idea there is a difference between the pins and the wood.

Insetting the pins is an option for aesthetics, but again the pin is irrelevant to the grinder. I know you are thinking about grinders based on your other post that I saw. Using a 1x30 is extremely difficult because you end up slack belt grinding a lot to avoid trenching out the handle. On a 2x72 it’s totally different. The power is limitless and the big surface area of the belt is more forgiving. You also have the option of contacts wheels of various sizes and a big platen.

 

[C Craft]

John pretty much nailed it! When I first started I was leaving at least a 1/2" or more. Then I would sand down till I felt that it looked and felt right!! After doing a few like that I realized that most of what I started with was in the saw dust pile and I didn't have to start so thick!!

 

[John Wilson]

Cliff you are so right. That’s also the frustration of cutting scales from a block. If i had a Star Wars laser beam I could get 4 .250 scales from a one inch block. But when they come off the bandsaw I have to flatten the sides.

I can get three scales from a 1 inch block. What do you do with that one leftover scale that doesn’t match anything? Or you can save time and split the block down the middle and have two monster sized scales...which will end up as 80% sawdust later.

 

[Mark Barone]

John pretty much nailed it! When I first started I was leaving at least a 1/2" or more. Then I would sand down till I felt that it looked and felt right!! After doing a few like that I realized that most of what I started with was in the saw dust pile and I didn't have to start so thick!!

So do you cut out your own 1/4 scales or presand the 3/8 scale. I would think I would want to pre sand the exterior part of a scale to keep the flat side intact as much as possible. I have an old whiskey barrel slave I want to try and make scales out of. I am just hoping there are some interesting markings and it just doesn't end up looking like a new piece of oak.

 

[John Wilson]

So do you cut out your own 1/4 scales or presand the 3/8 scale. I would think I would want to pre sand the exterior part of a scale to keep the flat side intact as much as possible.

!!!! WARNING !!!!

Let me save you about a year of banging your head on the wall.

That flat side isn’t as flat as you think it is. I know, I know.... but trust me. I spent a very long time utterly flabbergasted when my pin holes didn’t line up, which made no sense because I drilled both scales at once. Well, that “flat side” isn’t always as flat as you think.

Start right now to change your mindset. Handle material is RAW material. The value of “flat and square” can not be overstated. The time you think you are saving by keeping the “factory side” intact will bite you in your butt 3 times out of 5.

 

[Mark Barone]

!!!! WARNING !!!!

Let me save you about a year of banging your head on the wall.

That flat side isn’t as flat as you think it is. I know, I know.... but trust me. I spent a very long time utterly flabbergasted when my pin holes didn’t line up, which made no sense because I drilled both scales at once. Well, that “flat side” isn’t always as flat as you think.

Start right now to change your mindset. Handle material is RAW material. The value of “flat and square” can not be overstated. The time you think you are saving by keeping the “factory side” intact will bite you in your butt 3 times out of 5.

Good to know. I did see a few videos on makers sanding down those scales on a glass plate with sandpaper stuck to it. I guess I need to look into that more. Also I did just get some scales in the mail the other day that were incredibly warped.

 

[Robert66]

I have washed out and cut up bleach, weedkiller and general kitchen/garden coloured liquid containers for liners, used the flat side, I can usually get 4 liners per bottle.
I do get in a sticky mess with gluing all that up. lol

I have also been melting down milk bottle tops and anything with a "2" stamped on it for HPDE scales, I have nearly got it right.

I gotta do something to keep occupied.

 

[Ty Adams]

I like 3/8" scales, they leave some room for errors, and experimenting. When I was using a 1X30 I would layout lines on the but of the handle a " cut the handle roughly with the sander.


A half round file, and some 220 grit sand paper make short work of rounding everything out. I still use the same process but use the slack belt on my kmg.
Here's the same knife with a 220 grit finish

 

[John Wilson]

I'm sorry. I just now realized that I never answered your question.

So do you cut out your own 1/4 scales or presand the 3/8 scale.

I cut my own scales from blocks of wood. The rare occasions that I buy pre-cut scales I go with 3/8 because I fully expect them to come warped and I'm going to have to flatten them. A 3/8 scale looks like a 2x4 when you put it on a 1/8 blade. But you are going to grind a whole lot of it away. Extra thickness is not waste, it's cushion for the process. The same philosophy applies to women. I'm j/k. But having more raw material is always better. When you get to the point where you don't need the cushion, you'll know. If you are cutting your own scales, then by all means make them thinner if you don't plan to sand a whole bunch away. I'm old school and out of date. I still like palm swells even though they are out of fashion. I don't care.

I have an old whiskey barrel slave I want to try and make scales out of. I am just hoping there are some interesting markings and it just doesn't end up looking like a new piece of oak.

I have done this and it came out beautiful with a TruOil finish. Don't worry about the curve or the charred side. Cut the block, make it flat and square, then cut it in half for scales and flatten the cut side. Flat and square. repeat. Flat. and. Square.

The oak stave I used was from a Jim Beam barrel. I was worried, too. The oak looked really REALLY plain, especially after I made a nice square block out of it. But the good news is that all those years of holding whiskey allowed the whiskey to permeate the wood. The whiskey that got into the grain really darkened it and gave the wood figure it normally wouldn't have had. It was also the best smelling piece of wood I ever sanded LOL. I took my respirator off for that handle.

It will turn out fine.

 

[Von Gruff]

For buy in handlle material which is mostly micarta or buffalo horn I will get 3/8 but for the wood scalles which I cut myself I may even go a bit thicker from the rough sawn for drying and dont feel the need to change that for handle fitting after ensuring the back is flat.
I use the badsaw for the first stage of the handle shaping and have done a couple of short videos of the process

 

[Mark Barone]

Good to know. I did see a few videos on makers sanding down those scales on a glass plate with sandpaper stuck to it. I guess I need to look into that more.

View attachment 65559

The scales need to begin with enough thickness for the widest part of the finished handle. In this example the butt end is very wide. The rest of the scale is pretty much sanded away except for mild palm swells on this kitchen knife.

View attachment 65559

The scales need to begin with enough thickness for the widest part of the finished handle. In this example the butt end is very wide. The rest of the scale is pretty much sanded away except for mild palm swells on this kitchen knife.

I have washed out and cut up bleach, weedkiller and general kitchen/garden coloured liquid containers for liners, used the flat side, I can usually get 4 liners per bottle.
I do get in a sticky mess with gluing all that up. lol

I have also been melting down milk bottle tops and anything with a "2" stamped on it for HPDE scales, I have nearly got it right.

I gotta do something to keep occupied.

I have to keep a lookout for cool containers. I have heard of that. Thanks for the response. I like repurposing. I thought I thought of a bullet shell for pins. But that has been done.

 

[Mark Barone]

For buy in handlle material which is mostly micarta or buffalo horn I will get 3/8 but for the wood scalles which I cut myself I may even go a bit thicker from the rough sawn for drying and dont feel the need to change that for handle fitting after ensuring the back is flat.
I use the badsaw for the first stage of the handle shaping and have done a couple of short videos of the process

I like the bandsaw idea and I have one. I think I will try that.

 

[Mark Barone]

I'm sorry. I just now realized that I never answered your question.



I cut my own scales from blocks of wood. The rare occasions that I buy pre-cut scales I go with 3/8 because I fully expect them to come warped and I'm going to have to flatten them. A 3/8 scale looks like a 2x4 when you put it on a 1/8 blade. But you are going to grind a whole lot of it away. Extra thickness is not waste, it's cushion for the process. The same philosophy applies to women. I'm j/k. But having more raw material is always better. When you get to the point where you don't need the cushion, you'll know. If you are cutting your own scales, then by all means make them thinner if you don't plan to sand a whole bunch away. I'm old school and out of date. I still like palm swells even though they are out of fashion. I don't care.




I have done this and it came out beautiful with a TruOil finish. Don't worry about the curve or the charred side. Cut the block, make it flat and square, then cut it in half for scales and flatten the cut side. Flat and square. repeat. Flat. and. Square.

The oak stave I used was from a Jim Beam barrel. I was worried, too. The oak looked really REALLY plain, especially after I made a nice square block out of it. But the good news is that all those years of holding whiskey allowed the whiskey to permeate the wood. The whiskey that got into the grain really darkened it and gave the wood figure it normally wouldn't have had. It was also the best smelling piece of wood I ever sanded LOL. I took my respirator off for that handle.

It will turn out fine.

Yes I love the smell of it also. My table saw is really wonky now so I m going to bring it to my sons some day. I "stole" a piece of the Mayflower ship that they are restoring near me. There were pieces removed and laying on the ground. It's obviously a replica built in the 40s I believe. I was hoping it would have some interesting grain. What I got was a water damaged old piece of wood. I need to be more chosey next time. I thought it would be a good conversation piece. I was going to make a nautical or oyster knife out of it.

 

[John Wilson]

The Mayflower replica is probably white oak on the garboard planks and spruce or ash on the ribs.

I think the oak stave I have is white oak. I’m thinking that red oak would be a poor choice for barrels just as it is not great for boats.

 

[Von Gruff]

I like the bandsaw idea and I have one. I think I will try that.

You will see that I have a suplementary top on the bandsaw. The blade slot is from the front of the bandsaw table (toward me) so the suplimentary top has the slot on the back of the blade and this stops the knife blade from catching in the table top when cutting the handle. I simetimes have to use the air gun to blow out the slot befroe I can remove the suplimentary top but that is a small inconvenience compared to the ease of use with it in place for cutting the handle profile. It is also a good asset when cutting small pieces for bolsters etc.