Anvil refacing question

Shane Wink

Shane Wink

Well-Known Member
I got an anvil in a trade not long ago and it has a small saddled spot. I did some research and found I can use a Lincoln 7018 electrode to build up the saddle but I was curious if there is a particular pattern that is to be welded when building a saddle up?

A mackay 32 and a mackay 58 were also mention as the equivelent to the stoody electrodes but at 130 for 10 lbs of each I am seriously considering using the 7018 or just the mackay 58 as two local machinist both said. They have repaired several anvils including their own but I forgot to ask about what pattern and I had taken up too much of their time already so I am asking y'all.

I will heat the face of the anvil with a rosebud before welding.
 
My advice is to NOT do it......although I'm sure you've read and heard that it works, there are a lot of "tricky" things that you must do (pre-heat AND post heat), and in most cases with a bit of use the weld will start "popping" off, simply because it's a dissimilar metal to the anvil face. IF you can, I would suggest getting the anvil resurfaced....it's a LOT less work, a lot less room for error, and MUCH simpler. If there isn't enough "face" on the anvil to have it milled or surface ground....then it's time to look for a different anvil.

I just had my #300 resurfaced (milled), and just completed the polish job yesterday....now she's ready to use:
AnvilPolished_zps91ceda29.jpg
 
The only polish your tools should have, IMO, is from use, anything else is just.....not forging LOL.

Shane, how deep and wide is the saddled spot? Where on the anvil is it?

I am not the kind of guy to wait for the perfect tools before getting to work, I did not have a nice flat anvil for quite a few years, instead I learned to use different spots on the anvil, sweet spots, that you come to know and learn by working on it to use to do specific things during forging. In fact, most professional smiths I know dont like a perfectly flat anvil, it's harder to make something straight on one. My advice is to just start using the anvil, you'll learn it's ins and outs.
 
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The only polish your tools should have, IMO, is from use, anything else is just.....not forging LOL
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To each his own.... the very first "anvil" that I ever own was one of the cast types, and it was "saddled" within about a month. It was a pain, but I learned to work with it, and "make due"...... but count myself as blessed when I finally got my hands on a "good" anvil with a clean/FLAT face. As I became more adept at forging, I learned that smoother, cleaner, "polished" hammer and anvil faces made tasks much easier, and the products came out with a much better "forged finish", which makes the rest of the process that much easier/nicer.

In fact, most professional smiths I know dont like a perfectly flat anvil, it's harder to make something straight on one.
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While you may have heard that, and in some instances for specific operations it might be true, my guess is that most of those individuals are not "Bladesmiths"......I started my career as a "general Blacksmith", where the "forged finish" look was very important to the product....the more "beat up" it looked, the better buyers liked it....that's not the case in the higher level of knife buyers. I always hated working on an anvil that wasn't flat....because for ME, it's MUCH simpler and easier to make something straight, when I have a flat/true anvil face to do it on.

You're 100% correct in that putting hammer to steel is what it's all about, but that doesn't mean that a person can't learn and refine not only technique, but also his/her tools along the way.
 
Guys, thanks for the advice but since the responses came too late I have already resurfaced it.

Ed I called the machine shop about having it surface ground but doing so I would lose too much of the face. I search the ABANA website and found that the stoody 2010 rod or something like that was suggested. My local supply shop does not carry stoody but stoody said that the Mckay 58 Hardalloy rod was the equivalent. They are not cheap but are a chrome manganese rod that will air-harden between 58-60Rc on the 2cd to 4 pass. I heated the anvile face by hating 1" thick plates in the forge and laying them on the face of the anvil and setting the anvil on top of two of the plates. Once the anvil face was holding enough heat to melt 400* temp stiks I began laying strings along the edges and then hammered them flat after each string to relieve stress.

The deepest spot was only 3/16's deep but the way the saddle ran there was not enough room to work with the big bowies I have been forging or either I am not skilled enough to do so. Either way the edges were in bad shape and needed work. I extended the strings 1-2 inches beyond the area needing repair to aid is stress management as was mentioned to do by the ABANA. The local machine shop charged me 60 bucks to surface grind the welds flat and I am waiting to get it back from them now.

I used another anvil to forge the bowies out and it too was saddled but the edges were good so it was not an issue unlike the anvil I just repaired. The repaired anvil is going in my new outside smithy at my house. In the past I have been driving 1 hour each way 4 times a month for the last year to use a buddies anvil and get orders done but Lord willing that will no longer be the case in a month or so.

I will let yall know how well it works out.
 
EdCaffreyMS said:
While you may have heard that, and in some instances for specific operations it might be true, my guess is that most of those individuals are not "Bladesmiths"......I started my career as a "general Blacksmith", where the "forged finish" look was very important to the product....the more "beat up" it looked, the better buyers liked it....that's not the case in the higher level of knife buyers.
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No that "hammered/beat up look" is kid's stuff, these are professional blacksmiths that do far more forging then any bladesmith ever will, and dont have the luxury of being able to grind anything smoothly after forging, so things need to be right the first time.

Good to hear things went well Shane! Photos please.:biggrin: Was there any recommended process after all the welding was done?
 
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Shane,
this comes up often. Any pictures you post of the process or end results would be helpful for others in the future.

I have a couple different anvils and used an angle grinder on one that had plenty of surface dings in it to smooth it out. I might have taken an 1/8" off the top to remove the dings and get it slightly flatter. I have never welded on an old swayback anvil. If I ever stumble onto one that is cheap, I will have to give it a try.
 
Since we are talking about anvils. I have a piece of ship plate (Mild Steel) and I was thinking about running some hard facing weld on one face. My current anvil is old and best estimate is it is wrought iron so I'm not going to take the welder to it.

Gee Ed I would be scared to hurt that anvil face, the first hammer mark is going to be like the first scratch on a new car :)
 
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There are few bladesmiths who can make the forge finish look like anything other than an unfinished blade. It is also historically inaccurate. Back in the time that people think that they are duplicating with these knives it would be a rare blacksmith that you let what is referred to as a blacksmiths knife leave the shop with hammer marks still showing. That kind of a finish would not even be allowed to leave a cutler's shop or even a grinder's shop.

As far as welding a new face to an anvil, if you leave any unwelded area under the face plate it will rob energy from the anvil. I did watch a video of a new face plate being forge welded to an old anvil and, as I remember, it took something four or five hours to bring the body of the anvil up to welding temperatures. It was interesting to watch the team handling that big glowing anvil out of the fire. Something that would seem real appealing after the third of fourth beer but too dangerous to try after the first one.

Doug
 
I will go by the machine shop and take a pic before its ground. Still great rebound after welding when flattening the welds so I am hoping it will still be there when its finished being ground. One thing to note if you use the McKay 58 hardalloy rods is they can't be machined. So no milling them. Surface ground with belts or stones I'd about it.

The saddle was not deep enough to need any build up rods but if you do need to build one up the McKay 32 is the equivalent of the stoody build up rod recommended from the ABANA.

The anvil in my avatar is a loaner and not the one I repaired.
 
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