Please walk me through my first knife!

Mark Barone

Well-Known Member
HI Retro here,
Aftr a few mistakes I thought I would start over and hope folks are bored enough to follow and help me along. Don't mistake my knowledge of knife terminology for experience. I never made anything like this before. I'm starting with 1080 1/8 thick 1.25 inch wide steel. My first project is a mini cleaver neck knife. I was a butcher for many years and this seems appropriate.

So far I drew my design, scribed it metal coated with blue layout fluid. I cut the blank out on a Taurus Ring Saw. My wife does stained glass work and this saw cuts metal also. VERY SLOW. If I continue with the hobby I have to get a band saw. So I am thinking my next step is to grind to the scribe lines. I have a 1x30 belt grinder and I bought a package of knife sanding belts. What grit should I use. I only have a few mm to get to the scribe line? I also need to drill holes for the 1/8 pin and 3/16brass pipe for the lanyard. Anything else I need to do before I grind the bevel. I don't want to grind the becel
until I check in again.
 

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Retro

You pretty much have it with these steps. "So far I drew my design, scribed it metal coated with blue layout fluid. I cut the blank out on a Taurus Ring Saw. My wife does stained glass work and this saw cuts metal also. VERY SLOW. If I continue with the hobby I have to get a band saw. So I am thinking my next step is to grind to the scribe lines. I have a 1x30 belt grinder and I bought a package of knife sanding belts. What grit should I use. I only have a few mm to get to the scribe line? I also need to drill holes for the 1/8 pin and 3/16brass pipe for the lanyard. Anything else I need to do before I grind the bevel."

First of all, all knife makers are a little bit different in their procedures.

I use 50 grit to shape my knife blanks, some use 36 grit, some use 60 grit, some 120 grit, and I'm sure some use others. Whatever you are comfortable with will do if you are fairly close to final shape.

After finish shaping you can drill your pin holes and your thong tube hole. You might want to also drill other holes to remove some material (lighten the handle). This is optional. Some do, some don't. If you choose this option - use a different size drill bit and do not get too close to the edge. Keep them to the center of the knife blank if at all possible. About an eighth of an inch or more from the edge. It gives you some space to finish after heat treatment.

Thereafter, you can start your initial rough grind for the bevels. Use your blue dykem on the edge and mark your centerlines. Just put your knife blank on a flat surface and use a drill bit to mark the edge. If you have a adjustable knife scribe - all the better. You may wish to use a caliper on your blank to find out it's true thickness. 1/8 inch 1080 may be as thick as .140/.150. Check it so you can center your grind lines.

Use your 36 grit, 50 grit, 60 grit whatever you feel comfortable with to do the rough bevel grind. Keep about a dime thickness before heat treat. Any thinner and you may get some warpage. Remove the same amount of material from each side. 1-2 passes left, 1-2 passes right, 1-2 passes left, 1-2 passes right. Try and fisish your weaker side first and match it with your stronger side.

As a suggestion - do not get in a hurry with this process. If it takes and hour...use an hour. The better the initial grind, the easier the finish grind. Keep it straight, flat, perpendicular. A lot of new maker's like to hurry through this step and it bites them later. It is just easier to finish a knife if the rough grind is square. I hope you understand what I mean by that statement.

Keep posting your progress, I will help along the way if you have any more questions. Some other makers will chime in also. We are a helpful bunch.

Good Luck!

DeMo
 
BTW: I forgot to mention. I really like your pattern. Here is a picture of a similar knife that Justin Presson made for me. I use it all the time. It sits on my desk. You will appreciate making a knife that you will use quite a bit for your first one.


DeMo


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:thumbup:Retro, You are on the right track. I think DeMo covered the main points. One thing you should also do is make sure you blank you cut out is flat, you might have to do some straightening to make sure you are good and flat. Also draw or scribe you some lines to wotk up to from the edge. This will help you keep your bevels even.
DeMo that was one of my favorite little kives glad you are getting use out of it!!
 
Here are a few pics of what I do. First one is the edge I loke to do 2 lines instead of one down the middle...works for me. The second on is what I was talking about marking you bevels I usually paint the blade with layout fluid and use my cheap caliper to scribe the lines but I drew them with a marker to give you an idea.
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Thanks to both of you. I appreciate it. I'll try to hit the grind tomorrow, I'm pretty close already to the scribe line so I think I may use the 80 to start. i won't rush it and I will quit my day job.
 
This picture is post 80 grit belt sanding final shape. With a blade shaped like this, do I need to adjust as I'm grinding the bevel. I noticed with blades that come to a point, I would need to fish tail it a little so the bevel grind is constant. Can just use a jig ( I made a simple one) and just grind from left to right without lifting or twisting the blade? I'm not sure I am getting my question across. IMG_1581.JPG
Also I know to heat treat after the initial bevel grind but do in fine sand the edges before heat treating also? I will drill my holes also first.
 
Also I know to heat treat after the initial bevel grind but do in fine sand the edges before heat treating also?

I do. I try to get them to 220 grit. The smoother the better. It is easier to get scratches out pre-heat treat.

Can just use a jig ( I made a simple one) and just grind from left to right without lifting or twisting the blade?

Yes. You can use a jig if you wish. Yes. You can grind left to right and right to left without adjusting the blank up and down to create a fish hook effect at the tip. With that blade shape it should work out just fine. How high are you going up the knife blank with your grind?

Make sure to get your holes drilled for pins and thong tube. Otherwise, it is looking pretty good. Keep at it.

DeMo
 
Also I know to heat treat after the initial bevel grind but do in fine sand the edges before heat treating also?
. How high are you going up the knife blank with your grind?

DeMo

Something like this I would like. But a little higher or lower will be fine with me. It seems like it will depend on my jig angle. I don't really have anything to go by. I will probably have to adjust the angle after my first couple of passes.

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Your question about what grit to sand to before heat treat, you want at least 220 all around, spine, tang, flats bevels. You dont want 80 grit coarse scratches have to hand sand out after heat treat.

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Small problem, my lanyard hole is too small for the brass tubing. I bought 3/16 brass tube (inside diameter) I measured the tube as 1/4 outside diameter (not with a caliper, I don't have one) The hole is a tad too small. Does 3/16 tube have a standard outside diameter. I am afraid now if I drill 5/16 it will be too big?
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All tubing and pins are not the same diameter. Really is no set standard size. You can find odd pieces every now and then. But, you can drill the hole to fit fairly well even with the odd sizes if you have the right drill bit. If that does not work, get a different tube.

What size did you drill the hole? A 1 foot piece of tubing will only cost you $1-$2. If the hole is drilled 1/4 - go buy a new piece of tubing that is 1/4 outside diameter. Should work like a charm.

You can remove a little bit of material using file/sand paper and turning it on your drill press. Caution - if you remove too much material the tube will collapse. Tried that - several times.

DeMo
 
Small problem, my lanyard hole is too small for the brass tubing. I bought 3/16 brass tube (inside diameter) I measured the tube as 1/4 outside diameter (not with a caliper, I don't have one) The hole is a tad too small. Does 3/16 tube have a standard outside diameter. I am afraid now if I drill 5/16 it will be too big?
View attachment 61233View attachment 61232

The holes in your scales should be very close in size to the pins and tubes. I use 1/4" OD pins and tubes and use a size F drill bit. Size F is a tiny bit bigger than 1/4. However. the holes in your tang do not have to be that tight. I know, I know. Every knifemaking tutorial says to do that, but you don't have to. The holes in the tang will get filled with epoxy. When you glue your scales on there will be overhang and once the epoxy cures you will sand the scales down to meet the tang. Any tiny bit of misalignment due to oversized tang holes is irrelevant. The only time it would matter is if you finished your scales first and then put then on the knife. Conversely, if your tang holes are that tight, nine times out of ten you're going to end up using a dremel to wallow out the tang holes to get both of your pins in when you dry fit the scales after drilling the pin holes. Unless you are drilling holes with a milling machine, on scales that have been milled perfectly flat and parallel, you will drive yourself nuts trying to get multiple pins aligned using holes that tight.

Using an F size drill bit will make your life much easier when using 1/4 hardware.
 
OK I used a 17/64 bit which made the hole just a bit larger to get my brass lanyard pin in the metal. I don't have a dremmel (yet) but have a dremmel little drum belt. I put it in my drill press and brought the table way up to it. It allowed me to get sand that tight radius near the back of the blade. Kind of like a make shift spindle sander. Tomorrow is the big day, my first bevel. I used the drill bit method to get the center line. I think I'm on track with finishing this knife by 2018.
If I bring the sides down to 220, what happens when I put my scales on and start to sand them down to the metal using a courser grit. Won't I hit the metal and ruin the 220? IMG_1588.jpg
 
If I bring the sides down to 220, what happens when I put my scales on and start to sand them down to the metal using a courser grit. Won't I hit the metal and ruin the 220? View attachment 61238

Your blade needs to be sanded to much finer than 220 grit before the scales go on. 600 is a good finishing grit for everything that is not covered by the scales. When the blade is completely finished with hand sanding, wrap the blade with a paper towel and tape to protect the finish. Now you can put the handle on. The wrapping on the blade keeps it clean and keeps it from being scratched as you handle it. It will stay wrapped until the handle is complete.


To answer your question though, yes. You, will hit the tang with courser grit, but that's okay because you will be sanding your scales down with that courser grit, too. As you progress up through the grits on your handle, you also sand the tang. Your last grit on the handle will probably be 600 grit, therefore your tang will be sanded to 600 grit.
 
I'm not happy with the edge. I really want a clean bevel line. I don't even care where it is. Obviously lack of experience is the problem but I think need to make a good bevel jig. I used a crappy jig I made and clamped with a vice grip. IMG_1592.jpgIMG_1591.jpg
 
Is this before or after heat treat? How are you grinding the bevel? (big belt sander, or files?) If you have a good grinder then you can always take it thinner after heat treat. If you don't, I'd take this puppy to a full height grind and get the edge down in the .010 to .015 thickness as well as getting the plunge lines even on both sides before heat treat. This short, thick blade is not likely to warp, in my opinion.

On a blade this thick, I'd take the bevel all the way to the spine. A knife this small does not need all that meat in the blade. Taking the bevel to the spine (a full flat grind) will relieve a lot of weight and the knife will cut infinitely better. The way you ground this bevel works best on a big bone cleaver. My opinion? This is a knife. Think "slicing ability" with everything you do. If it's a "look" you're after, well then do what looks good to your eye.

tip: if you grind your bevel too high for your liking and want some more flat along the spine, you can lay the blade flat on the belt and grind a bit at a time. This will thin the blade overall, but you'll get back some flat along the top. Don't get crazy with it, because it can make your plunge lines look a little wonky.
 
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