First attempt with grinder

Jellis11

Well-Known Member
Hey fellas, so I got my Wilton grinder set up and just couldn't wait to start tearing into some steel. After a few horribly sorry attempts at bevels I was ready to explode. I couldn't grind a straight line (top of bevel) to save my life, I couldn't grind even plunge cuts, I ruined the tip of one of my heat treated blades, I skinned the meat off of one of my knuckles, and super pedicured a fingernail on my other hand....it was an AWFUL experience! but wait......

Now, I don't quit and I don't like losing....I am a US Army combat vet and a cancer survivor, I have raised two daughters and been married for 27 years, so my life has not been without its challenges. That being said, as I am sitting in a pile of metal dust, defeated, bleeding, and wondering "WHY did I even try this?" I strangely thought about the game of golf....I love golf. I've been working on my game for about ten years now. I'm not particularly good and I do get frustrated at times (that's a lie, I get frustrated a lot!) But, every once in a while, I'll hit an amazing, straight as an arrow 350 yard drive, or maybe hit an impossible flop shot on the green with less than a yard to the cup. And I would never, ever had done that if I had not picked up a club in the first place and got the desire to PRACTICE and try and fail, and go back and start all over again and again......I have always heard that its that one great shot that keeps you going back. I think the same is true about this crazy hobby.

So, from one new guy to the other new guys out there, don't expect to go get an expensive grinder, or milling machine, or whatever and expect to start immediately rolling out works of art, cause its not going to happen. But DONT give up either! If you want it bad enough, you'll find a way. Ask questions and always keep learning, but DONT GIVE UP!

Bruce Lee said "Defeat is a state of mind, no one is ever defeated until defeat is accepted as reality"

Anyway, enough of my ranting, I just wanted to tell you guys that I tried and got my butt kicked, but I am digging heels in and pushing forward. Thanks for all of your advice and help, and I apologize beforehand for all the questions that will be coming...LOL
 
Hey... we've ALL been there. There's nothing like sitting there next to a two thousand dollar grinder, worn out and wallowing in the funk of failure and defeat. It gets better, and it won't take nearly as long as it seems right now.

I had to equate grinding to learning how to shoot. Until you can call your shot as the trigger breaks, you're really just jerking the trigger and hoping for the best. Think about every pass on the grinder as if you were in the prone position and about to take the shot.

1. body position (good, stable, solid, REPEATABLE position)
2. direction (am I grinding from right to left, or left to right? Okay. Where is the plunge, where is the tip, how far am I going)
3. flatness (have I established a flat bevel yet? this is your zero. You can always adjust up or down as needed, but you need to know your zero or you have no idea where to even start)
4. Call your shot (I am going to apply flat pressure (I like where my bevel is going) OR I am going to apply slight pressure toward the spine to move the bevel up OR I am going to apply slight pressure toward the edge to bring the bevel closer to my final edge geometry)
5. Execute the pass. (YOU MUST CALL YOUR SHOT BEFORE YOU BEGIN THE PASS. When you pull the blade off the platen you MUST compare what happened to what you called. This is the only way to train muscle memory and feel.) How did you do? Did you remove steel where you intended to? If not, go back to step 1. Your position is wrong.


Be robotic in your grinding at first. Until you can call your pass and execute exactly what you called, all you're doing is dragging the steel across the grinder and hoping for the best. You will spend every pass trying to correct the last one, chasing yourself in circles.

Start with VERY BASIC geometry.

Don't begin in the plunge. Begin slightly away, then draw back into plunge. Trying to lay the blade down exactly in the plunge will have you moving your plunge line all over the place and constantly correcting each side to match the other. It really stinks to have a great looking plunge and then grind the corner right off it because you laid it down on the edge of the belt. Personally, my plunge lines are just an idea at 36 grit. They begin to even up at 60 grit. I fix them at 120 grit because I can ease them in and dwell a second at a time at 120 grit without trenching out the blade if I lag half a second too long. The plunges are my special project at 120 grit. There are no 36 or 60 grit scratches to remove because I never went there on those grits. Finally, a 220 grit Trizact gator belt can polish up the plunges easy as pie.

Avoid the tip. The hell with the tip. You can always grind the tip to final dimensions last if you had to. Trying to grind to the tip on every pass is the easiest way to burn the tip right off.
 
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Hey... we've ALL been there. There's nothing like sitting there next to a two thousand dollar grinder, worn out and wallowing in the funk of failure and defeat. It gets better, and it won't take nearly as long as it seems right now.

I had to equate grinding to learning how to shoot. Until you can call your shot as the trigger breaks, you're really just jerking the trigger and hoping for the best. Think about every pass on the grinder as if you were in the prone position and about to take the shot.

1. body position (good, stable, solid, REPEATABLE position)
2. direction (am I grinding from right to left, or left to right? Okay. Where is the plunge, where is the tip, how far am I going)
3. flatness (have I established a flat bevel yet? this is your zero. You can always adjust up or down as needed, but you need to know your zero or you have no idea where to even start)
4. Call your shot (I am going to apply flat pressure (I like where my bevel is going) OR I am going to apply slight pressure toward the spine to move the bevel up OR I am going to apply slight pressure toward the edge to bring the bevel closer to my final edge geometry)
5. Execute the pass. (YOU MUST CALL YOUR SHOT BEFORE YOU BEGIN THE PASS. When you pull the blade off the platen you MUST compare what happened to what you called. This is the only way to train muscle memory and feel.) How did you do? Did you remove steel where you intended to? If not, go back to step 1. Your position is wrong.


Be robotic in your grinding at first. Until you can call your pass and execute exactly what you called, all you're doing is dragging the steel across the grinder and hoping for the best. You will spend every pass trying to correct the last one, chasing yourself in circles.

Start with VERY BASIC geometry.

Don't begin in the plunge. Begin slightly away, then draw back into plunge. Trying to lay the blade down exactly in the plunge will have you moving your plunge line all over the place and constantly correcting each side to match the other. It really stinks to have a great looking plunge and then grind the corner right off it because you laid it down on the edge of the belt. Personally, my plunge lines are just an idea at 36 grit. They begin to even up at 60 grit. I fix them at 120 grit because I can ease them in and dwell a second at a time at 120 grit without trenching out the blade if I lag half a second too long. The plunges are my special project at 120 grit. There are no 36 or 60 grit scratches to remove because I never went there on those grits. Finally, a 220 grit Trizact gator belt can polish up the plunges easy as pie.

Avoid the tip. The hell with the tip. You can always grind the tip to final dimensions last if you had to. Trying to grind to the tip on every pass is the easiest way to burn the tip right off.

Wow, great information, thank you!
 
We've all certainly been there, and even after a few years of grinding under my belt (pun intended), I still skin a knuckle, grind a finger nail, or mess up a blade once in a long while. Practice certainly makes better, there's absolutely no doubt about it.

Not much to add to what John said (all very good advice). Starting simple and being intentional are two very key factors. Get some scrap steel and play with angles and pressures and movements a little bit. Use fresh sharp belts and don't be afraid to change them when they start to go dull.
 
sitting in a pile of metal dust, defeated, bleeding, and wondering "WHY did I even try this?"

Because it's just plain COOL! :)

Grinding is an art form....not a science. John's advice is right on the money, and I would add...... don't give up. When I started out with my Square Wheel (my first real grinder), I kept an empty 5 gallon bucket behind me.....and after about a week, had it filled with failed grinding attempts. As time went by, and I learned more and more, it took longer and longer to fill that bucket. Now, after 30 years of doing it, I rarely ever have to throw a blade away....I can usually repair my mistakes. What that means is that it takes time to learn all the nuances that go along with grinding a blade. Each person is different, but it's just a skill that takes time and repetition to learn, and you only get better with time and practice. You can do this! Don't give up!

Many folks starting out with a grinder believe it's simple.....when in reality, it's one of the more intense/demanding jobs we do as knifemakers...... I often tell students that a day at the grinder is more mentally and physically fatiguing for me then a full day of swinging a hammer at the forge. It's all about attention to detail, and understanding that minor changes in hand pressures and motion equate to major changes in what's going on between the belt and the steel.

The fist and most important aspect of being successful at blade grinding is to have the grinder mounted solidly, and at the correct height for YOU......with elbows locked into your sides, and you arms bent 90 degrees....the middle of the platen, or the contact point on the contact wheel, should be right there...... if you have to reach up or down from that position, you've already lost. When I teach grinding, hands are ALWAYS resting on your body, just at or above belt height. There's not a human alive that has the strength to hold a blade steady with just their arms/hands. When you move, you move at the hips and the knees for "cross travel".....as soon as the hands leave a solid resting position (supported by your body), things go bad. As soon as I can get somebody to take a couple of pics, I'll post them to illustrate what I'm talking about.

HEY! That just gave me an idea for a short video! :)
 
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Hey don't worry guy I am in the same boat! I also lost a finger nail well 1/2 of one.But it's getting better I am going too get me some cheap metal from Home Depot to pratice on before I call Aldo again.But it's fun and I know I will get it down and so will you good luck!
 
Personally, my plunge lines are just an idea at 36 grit. They begin to even up at 60 grit. I fix them at 120 grit because I can ease them in and dwell a second at a time at 120 grit without trenching out the blade if I lag half a second too long. The plunges are my special project at 120 grit. There are no 36 or 60 grit scratches to remove because I never went there on those grits. Finally, a 220 grit <snip> belt can polish up the plunges easy as pie.
Good advice!
 
If you have a local fabrication shop in the area, see if they have a scrap yard or a drop section. You can get a lot more steel for a lot less money than what home depot asks for it. Some places might even give you a pile of short cut offs.
 
Rather then a picture..... we did a short video on setting your grinder up at the proper height.....

[video=youtube;-i5d4-s-Fnc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-i5d4-s-Fnc[/video]
 
Perfect Ed!!! Thank you, that helps tremendously! I'll try that technique this evening (I still have a real day job LOL)

Looking forward to the full-on grinding video!
 
"I had to equate grinding to learning how to shoot. Until you can call your shot as the trigger breaks, you're really just jerking the trigger and hoping for the best. Think about every pass on the grinder as if you were in the prone position and about to take the shot.

1. body position (good, stable, solid, REPEATABLE position)
2. direction (am I grinding from right to left, or left to right? Okay. Where is the plunge, where is the tip, how far am I going)
3. flatness (have I established a flat bevel yet? this is your zero. You can always adjust up or down as needed, but you need to know your zero or you have no idea where to even start)
4. Call your shot (I am going to apply flat pressure (I like where my bevel is going) OR I am going to apply slight pressure toward the spine to move the bevel up OR I am going to apply slight pressure toward the edge to bring the bevel closer to my final edge geometry)
5. Execute the pass. (YOU MUST CALL YOUR SHOT BEFORE YOU BEGIN THE PASS. When you pull the blade off the platen you MUST compare what happened to what you called. This is the only way to train muscle memory and feel.) How did you do? Did you remove steel where you intended to? If not, go back to step 1. Your position is wrong."



Makes me want to go practice shooting john. good comparison

Ed, thanks for the video. I was grinding outside came in to warm up my hands and found these two threads on grinding. sure appreciate this help on knifedogs.

Luke
 
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