Fitting Tang

KenH

Well-Known Member
Hello all, Got a question here on fitting a guard to the tang. Normally I see the tang squared at ends, with the guard filed square. I cut the slot in guard with end mill which leaves the end cut round. Is there a big problem with rounding the tang to match? OR - will it show in finished product?

Thanks for any guidance and suggestions.

Ken H>
 
It's not a problem, but you have to be really careful that you file the tang all the way up to the shoulders without gouging the shoulders. OR you have to make your slot a lot longer than the guard, which can be done but can lead to other fit/finish issues...OR you can make yourself a safe-face file and cut the round corners square. I choose the last method AND I round my tang edges slightly, so a combination of both in the end.
 
Thanks for the input John - That's sorta what I was thinking, but wanted confirmation from experts like you. I'm working on a copy of the Joe Musso Bowie and want it to be as close as possible.
Musso Bowie-1.jpg
If you look close you can see there's a leather washer between the guard and ricasso, so any gaps in fit of guard should be hid, but I want it to fit right with no gaps.

Ken H>
 
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Yeah, I saw that on your other post about the knife. Personally, I'd ditch that leather spacer completely. That's just asking for trouble. Leather dries out and shrinks and cracks and then you've got big problems. If you wanted to stay with the traditional drawing, I'd consider using .040" g-10 instead of leather.

But really, I'd just fit the guard to the ricasso properly, as you stated.
 
I had wondered about the leather washer myself, but since I'm trying to make a close copy of the original, I think I'll leave the washer in for now. I'm hoping to make a sheath for the knife that will have the metal ring around top as so many sheaths did back then. The leather washer provides a "bumper" between guard and the top of sheath.

With the leather well oiled with neatsfoot it should hold up fairly well just sitting in display case.

Ken H>
 
I can give you one good tip to make a tight fit. Go about 1/16" above the shoulder level, and taper the tang. Then you only have that 1/16" to make the guard fit really tight. I do squared slots roughly close fitted to the radial shoulders. The leather washer will last a long time, unless abused. Here is one I made from that blue print.





 
I would suggest gluing the leather in place, then coat well with spar varnish.



 
Sorry I didn't see your post before now, but that is one impressive knife you've made. IMPRESSIVE!

Gluing the leather washer to the brass guard is a good idea - I hadn't thought of that.

Did you use a stamp for the star? If so, where did you get the stamp? I've got the letter stamps for the "JB", but not the star.

What wood use for the handle? It's sure black looking like ebony. I remember the Musso is of Oak, but has turned dark over the years.

Ken H>
 
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That star stamp is a top secret. You will have to promise not to tell. I used a Torx screw driver bit. It was just too easy to pass up, and was a near perfect match. I used maple for the grip, deep stained with Fiebings USMC black leather stain. Musso's is not dark from age, but from also being stained. However it was done, the process was called ebonizing. Phil Collins, the singer/songwriter, is the new owner of Musso's knife. If you build that knife to the specs on that blueprint, you will be amazed at how it handles and feels. Most people think it would be a clumsy heavy knife, but for a knife of that size, it is remarkably balanced for it's intended uses. The Musso knife weighs only 1 lb 12oz. Very light for it's size. Mine weighed 1oz less, and I'm not sure why. Maybe my scale was off a tad.
 
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Torx screwdriver tip - of course, one of those called security type with the hole in the center. I've got a set. Perfect! Thank you so much.

I'll have to weigh my version to check it - I've closing in on finished, but still having problems soldering the brass strip. I've got some dark Rosewood for handle now that looks ok. I'm sorta wanting a chunk of oak since that's the original.

Thanks again,

Ken H>
 
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Ken, I would love to see this one when you get it finished!!! Please :s12108: I am still waiting to see the folder, I think it was one with MOP on the handle!
 
Hello Mr Craft - Sorry I didn't check this thread any sooner, but since you wish to see the "big Bowie" here are a few photos. The brass strip on back of blade didn't turn out so good and am in process of redoing that. On the folder with MOP - I gave that to a granddaughter for Christmas and forgot to take any photos. It just slipped my mind in getting it finished and wrapped for Christmas. I do plan to get some photos her next visit.

This photo below is the blade as I completed forging. I started with a 2" X 1/4" bar that I forged the bevels to make final blade 2-1/4" wide to match original. This forging also put the curve to blade. I did saw the tip, but had to forge to get it shaped correctly. I am NOT a forger - just wish I was. Just that bit of forging over 2 days took my shoulder a couple of days to recover.
Forged Blade.jpg

This is checking to be sure the blade matches the original Musso Blade
2-partial blade.jpg

Blade getting closer to complete with ruler showing size.
3-blade-ruler.jpg

Here's hammering guard into shape.
5-Guard-Anvil.jpg

Matching shape of guard to original Musso Bowie's guard.
6-Guard-Match.jpg

Finally showing this Bowie will cut! This is one swing at the sapling, and it wasn't a really hard swing either.
7-Bowie-tree.jpg

After getting back to house, it still shaves the leg (no hair on arm). Hard to hold camera, shave, take photo all at same time!
8-Bowie-Shave.jpg

Anyway, that's my saga of making a copy of the Joe Musso Bowie.

Ken H>
 
Ken, WTH are you being so formal for?? I have been to your house man, and as far a I know I didn't do anything wrong that day, so that makes no longer, Mr. Craft, just call me Cliff!

I can sympathize with you on the forging! I use to swing a 32 oz. eastwing framing hammer, all day every day for years. Now some days it hurts to swing a hammer. It could be the constant use or the 600# beam they dropped on my shoulder, or could be the day I fell off a wall while laying out for trusses backwards and hit three braces on the way down!!

Now back to the Bowie I love it man!! But where are the close-up of the finished piece, profile pics, etc.??? You just showed the teaser pics! How does it balance in your hand?? It looks like you done a real bang up job! Without seeing the finish pics it looks like you done yourself proud!!
bow.gif
 
Well Cliff - Naw, you didn't do anything wrong, heck - you helped us catch that Quaker that flew in. I really enjoyed that visit and looking forward to next visit. Sometimes I just get in the "Mr" mood {g}

For such a big heavy knife it actually balances pretty good. Let me redo the brass strip before I post any really "close up" photos. I'm not happy at all with that brass strip - hard time getting it soldered just like I wanted. Rest of it I'm pretty happy with. I need to make a sheath also, and hope to put the brass ring around top like some of the old sheaths have - or maybe silver to make it really fancy?

Anyway, it is something I've wanted to do for a long time. I wish you were just a tad closer so you could come over and chop some wood with it.

Later
 
Please expound a bit on the "brass ring" on an old sheath. Is this a round ring for a belt attachment, or a collar/throat around the upper sheath?
 
Thanks for the nice comments - I was trying to say brass around the throat of sheath, Remember the leather washer I mentioned before? My understanding is those are to prevent the knife from rattling in the sheath with metal guard resting on metal top of sheath. Something like this sheath has. Not the metal around tip of sheath, just the throat:
Rose_Sheath_inset.jpg

LRB - have you made a sheath for your Musso Bowie yet? You didn't mention if you made it for a customer or your personal collection.
 
Cliff, here's a photo of completed Bowie. Not the best photo, but you can see the whole thing - I should have laid a ruler by the Bowie, but at 19.5" long, it's a dandy!
9-Assembled.jpg
 
Yes. I made one with a brass throat, but I don't recall if I have any pics of the sheath. I do have a pic of one I made for a store bought Musso. Someone bent the forward quillon over and I had to slot the throat for the knife to enter. Throats are relatively easy to do. The only real tedious part is making the entry slot fit the shape of the blades cross section. I did not cap this one because of the bent quillon. Most often I do cap them as the dagger below.



 
Yes, that's exactly what I'm talking about for the throat on the sheath. I like the cap as shown on the dagger throat. How to you make the cap? You sure do nice work with your sheaths.... and the dagger - outstanding!

Ken H>
 
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