What do you consider "proprietary"?

I guess my inclusion of you in the "veteran" group just shows what wonderful mentors they have been! I would not have guessed you for a newer maker.

After finding this forum a couple years ago I quit cruising other knife forums. I think "here" is the place where nobody thrashes you for your ignorance. I've only seen folks get a "talkin' to" for poor attitude...and never an abusive one at that. The mentors on here have as much patience as experience.....what a great combo.
 
Ted, I think John came out of the gates a pro! Me, still very green, but even I have secrets. Things I want to share, but hold back due to the thought of capitalizing on them someday. I've got one "knife" secret and 3 or 4 tool secrets. I sort of agree with the "everything's been done" theory, so when I find a little nugget that's feels uniquely mine, I don't always want to share. However, a couple of times, I've thought I had just came up with the most brilliant gizmo or idea ever, only to find out someone else had already done it. I find it's very tough to set yourself apart in a sea of makers, so a little proprietary content might not be a bad thing.
 
John to say you are just finding a style is something I find hard to believe. Anyone in the knife world should be able to to pick out one of your works of art out of 100 different makers. If they can't they are blind in one eye and half blind in the other. Or they just can't see anything past the brim of a hat.
 
Ted, I think John came out of the gates a pro! Me, still very green, but even I have secrets. Things I want to share, but hold back due to the thought of capitalizing on them someday. I've got one "knife" secret and 3 or 4 tool secrets. I sort of agree with the "everything's been done" theory, so when I find a little nugget that's feels uniquely mine, I don't always want to share. However, a couple of times, I've thought I had just came up with the most brilliant gizmo or idea ever, only to find out someone else had already done it. I find it's very tough to set yourself apart in a sea of makers, so a little proprietary content might not be a bad thing.

Oh man... Now you have me curious!
 
What Self made said makes sense to me. Sometimes a new way of doing something isn't so much something we want to try to hide from humanity....just a little time to prove it out and make something from the idea...

I have also found that when something is really burnin' in yer noggin'.....sharing for validation will most likely ruin the purity of the concept....best to quietly work without a bunch of other opinions in your head. (learned that the hard way...some folk feel if they share something with you...you are obligated to implement their "improvement"...lol. Especially if they've been on the planet a bit longer)

If you feel and idea has merit....make first ask later. This is merely to retain the joy of discovery...later share what you have proven out as much as you like. Ideas are like the flame on a candle...if you let someone blow on it, no matter how gentle...the fire can go out. I have shared conceptual stuff with my wife before and had her derail me unintentionally with her good ideas. I am kind of a "let fiddle with this for a while" kind of guy. When working in product development, group design meeting were always the most difficult thing for me....
 
""everything's been done" theory" Yep, while that's not totally true, there are many new things discovered everyday, but many things fit the "everything's been done" idea for sure. Reminds me of something I "invented" almost 50 yrs ago - a power measure to fit to end of a powder horn for muzzle loaders.

Allow me to set the background - I grew up in the hills of north Alabama, way back in the boonies. Heck, telephones weren't even invented there..... well, they were, but the nearest phone was over 10 miles away from the farm I grew up on. It was mid to late 1960's when phones got to the area.

I got interested in muzzle loaders and talked with my Grandpa who could remember hunting with muzzleloaders before cartridge type guns came to the area (I told you were were way back in boonies). They used any number of things for a powder measure, but usually the end of a cow horn. Grandpa gave me a powder horn his Dad made around 1900 (maybe before?). I still use that old powder horn.

After using the end of a cow horn hollowed out for power measure for each shot, I got to thinking about how nice it would be to have an end on the power horn that I could press with my finger and the correct amount of powder would be measured for the charge. Got to work, (had no tools other than drill and files), used brass 'n copper tubing to rig up a spring loaded powder measure that worked! I sure was proud of that thing - I'd invented something new. Grandpa and rest of family thought it was neat and were impressed with my "new invention".

Fast forward a few years and I find out those powder measures have been around for way over 100 years! I didn't invent something new, just "re-invented the wheel". That's how so many things in knife making are, not much new under the sun.

Ken H>
 
My personal opinion is that a fixed blade knife is about as simple as it gets. We're making prettier, higher quality versions of what is most likely mankind's first tool, after Cain thought about how hard he had to hit Abel with that rock. In folders you get into some really cool interplay with locks and releases. I'm very fond of the bolster releases. I can see a twist on that being proprietary, if you were making them on a large scale. But by and large, the area of knifemaking where one might want to guard IP is in manufacture on a large scale where time absolutely is money. Faster CNC routes, fewer tool changes, a way to avoid tool breakage, or something along these lines.

The non-disclosures I've signed over the years were usually protecting something fairly ho-hum. However, when you consider that Brand X had invested many millions of dollars to process a commodity product with thin margins it only makes sense for them to at least try to capitalize on the investment before Brand Y copies the process and takes back that 3% newfound increased margin. Meanwhile, Brand A (whose crumbs Brand X and Brand Y are fighting over) will continue to produce using 20 year old processes and pay Britney Spears to shake her groove thang on a TV commercial and they will continue with market dominance through sheer overpowering market penetration and distribution.

Back to our reality: If you're making a handmade anything you aren't exactly a contender on Spyderco's playing field. If you are your own labor force, saving ten seconds per knife, no, saving ten *minutes* on a knife will never move your margins. However, your willingness to share ideas and to then in return have ideas shared with you may be the thing that saves you countless months of learning something the hard way. That is an immediate realization of improvement and reduced loss in time and non-productive work.

As craftsmen/artisans/(pick your favorite term) of handmade knives: I believe we make the greatest improvements in profitability by reducing waste in all forms. Non-productive time is the ever-present low hanging fruit. I believe handmade is the key word here. Once you start talking about automated production then the metrics change. It's simply not the same thing. From an automated production standpoint, hand making anything is a total loss. But that's why many of us do this. That handmade aspect is exactly what we are selling.
 
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If you are your own labor force, saving ten seconds per knife, no, saving ten *minutes* on a knife will never move your margins. However, your willingness to share ideas and to then in return have ideas shared with you may be the thing that saves you countless months of learning something the hard way. That is an immediate realization of improvement and reduced loss in time and non-productive work.

So well spoken!
 
Thank you John Wilson for saying what I have been thinking about this thread. I have benefited from the wealth of knowledge that other knife makers have shared. If I ever get to a point in knife making that I can help someone else I will. No secrets will be hidden.
I work in a steel service center that process orders for large customers. We have 3 large accounts that send us drawings for jobs that are proprietary. They are doing the same type of work and the parts are nearly identical. Each one knows it and doesn't care.
 
No, I thank you and Ken for wading through that post. I just now came in from the shop (it's after midnight) and I can barely make sense of what I wrote. I apologize for the word salad. I think I had just gotten off of a conference call when I wrote that and was stuck in full-bore corporate mumbo jumbo speak. I need to be more self-aware because it means I'm actually talking like that to people. I wonder how many people feel like slapping me as much as I do right now.
 
No John, not "slapping" you, but "patting on back" for well written comments. I guess I spent too many years reading "corporate mumbo jumbo speak" that I didn't see anything out of the norm for a well versed person speaking (writing).
 
Getcher hand away from yer face John....lol.

It was good stuff. This thread helped me nail down some things. Your last post was helpful in adding perspective. And hey.....I'm always hearing that we're supposed have more salad in our diet...lol
 
okay okay. thanks guys. but if i ever bust out with "maximizing core competencies to effect synergy" then you have my permission to back a truck over me while you laugh maniacally.
 
OK, I have been avoiding this thread, cause I don't always think along the same lines as others!!! Actually I had a couple of paragraphs written and decided I was rambling and deleted it!! LOL

Look I think this has a lot to do with where you feel your niche is, in the knife making world! I kind of throw myself in there as a part timer/novice. Lets face it very few of us will strike it big. Our names will fall by the wayside of time!! However if you are doing this knife making as a living,............well I would expect you to approach it in a different manner.

Some thing that makes your knife different well that is what you are looking for. I can see keeping something close to the vest! Me however I am pretty much and open book. When I first started getting into knife making back in 2007! It was hard to get a straight answer from some of the seasoned makers. However some seemed willing to share!

I got into this subject with and off the cuff remark about a question asked by a rookie, A couple of years ago +/-. He wanted to know how to do a particular type of file work. Honestly I had never seen anything like it and when the discussion came to the rookie stating, when he had approached the maker about how he had done the maker, said it was a trade secret.
Well I have always been one for saying what I think and I made the comment, "me thinks, he is too full of himself". Little did I know I had just dropped the match that lit a forest fire. While you should be taken out and horse whipped for such an opinion!! Perhaps as I realize I had not seem anything like it before or since!! So guess he was right to hold that one close to the vest!

Now here is where I stray a bit but, it is for a purpose so bear with me. My Father never finished high school. When his mother passed he went to work on the farm full time and done any kind of an odd job he could to help support the family of five brothers and sisters. His father and my grand father were both carpenters, as well as my Father and myself.
So back when I was a young lad who thought I knew everything, I didn't always pay strict attention when my father tried to teach me things about carpentry that I thought just took to much time to process!

You see my Father was one of the few that could take a framing square and build an entire building off of the scales on that framing square. Most of you won't know what I am talking about because most framing squares now days are not even made with those scales on it! But if you know how to read them it will tell you more than you can ever imagine!! It is kind of like a square and a slide rule all in one!

When I made carpentry my chosen career, I learned to do a lot by that framing square. Sadly though there is still some of those tables today, that I did not master. My Father is gone now and there are few left alive that teach those scales on a true framing square to anyone!

That is why when it comes to passing on knowledge in knife making I don't have any problem helping out with what knowledge I have! One day I will be gone and if I don't help out those behind me...............the craft to a certain extent dies out! Plus I know what it is like to be starting out and hungry for information!

Having said all that if I was trying to raise a family off of knife making well then I might have to hold some things a little closer to the vest, at least until l I retire!! OK there it is my O2 on the subject!
 
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