OK Gang....whats going on here?

It's been unusually quiet around here lately. Generally I cruise the forums 2-3X a day, seeing if I can be of any help to anyone. Not seeing a lot of activity or questions being fielded like I'm used to. I guess we've done our jobs too well....and everybody is outta questions or the need for help?

Since you asked, I'd love to pick your brain on something.

On fixed blades, handles specifically.

Ever since I began making knives about two years ago I've been rough cutting my scales to within about 1/8 inch of the tang after drilling for pins. I finish the front edge by the ricasso of course, but everything else has that overhang. Once cured, I do all of my shaping and hand sanding.

My question is, should I be using a dry-fitup and doing all the finish work on the handle, and then doing the final glue up with finished pieces?

I think there are a number of ways it can be done.....generally each maker gets "comfortable" with a specific methodology. That being said, the way I do it is to use the full scale(s), and using the knife/tang as a template, drill one scale, placing a pin in the hole after drilling each one, then do the opposite scale.

Afterward, with the scales "dry pinned" to the knife, I grind the scales down to the tang, all the way around (usually with a 50 grit). Then I shape and completely finish the front of the scales. Next, with the scales "dry pinned" in place, I Vaseline the blade and fronts of the scales. Then I "glue" the scales in place.... no shaping of the scales is done until the "glue" is cured. Trying to completely shape/finish scales before they are "glued" in place, can make your life miserable....if anything moves just a few thousandths of an inch, it can be the end of that particular knife. Of course there are some specific builds that make it almost a necessity to shape things prior to affixing the handle/scales, but those are very specific designs, and most will realize the extra time/effort those will require before they get to the handle.

I wish I had something for you Ed! I always like your advice and usually even follow it. :biggrin: Now, if you really want to help, I've got about a 100' of 12' tall side walls ready for drywall mud, paint, and wiring. Bout time for a visit back to Arkansas?

EdCaffreyMS said:

It's been unusually quiet around here lately. Generally I cruise the forums 2-3X a day, seeing if I can be of any help to anyone. Not seeing a lot of activity or questions being fielded like I'm used to. I guess we've done our jobs too well....and everybody is outta questions or the need for help?

Click to expand...

hunting season ED , Im just calling that Jim Clowe feller to see how hes making out !! :3:

Anthony: You said two things that would make me run away screaming..... "Drywall mud" and "paint"! I'd rather have my toes smashed with a hammer then do either!


Ruger4: I always look forward to Jim texting me pics of the critters he sees/bags. (it always makes me green with envy) I've always wanted so badly to hunt with him in Alberta....but it's just too expensive, and way too much hassle. Maybe Alberta could annex Montana? Even if it's just for hunting season? I've got to get back to Jim's place on Vancouver Island next year..... that place just ruins a guy for fishing anywhere else, and I'm always in awe of the sheer beauty of that place.

I wish I was more active on here but I have been too busy.l guess life gets in the way too often. Feel free to post anything on here Ed that you think we should know

EdCaffreyMS said:

no shaping of the scales is done until the "glue" is cured. Trying to completely shape/finish scales before they are "glued" in place, can make your life miserable....if anything moves just a few thousandths of an inch, it can be the end of that particular knife. Of course there are some specific builds that make it almost a necessity to shape things prior to affixing the handle/scales, but those are very specific designs, and most will realize the extra time/effort those will require before they get to the handle.

Click to expand...

Thank you for the reply, Ed. I see lots of videos where guys seem to be affixing finished scales to the blade, but those designs don't have a great deal of contouring of the handle and the fit to the tang isn't seamless. I don't mean that as a negative, it seems to be the current style where the scales have become rather minimalist. I personally like palm swells and tight fight and finish and doing all of that prior to being permanently attached seemed like a gamble to me, and you have confirmed that. I would like to make knives that are a bit more ornate and in those cases I suppose I will have to put some real thought into the handle design to allow for the tang to be untouched.

I have seen the same thing Ed, pretty slow around here.

I'm wondering if social media is having an impact on the forums.
I see alot more makers young and old using instagram more as well as facebook.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

Unfortunately, I think one of the down sides to the show Forge in Fire, (which has driven a bunch of "wanna be" knifemakers recently) is the minimal emphasis placed on "fit and finish". I think what that's done, has given many the idea that what you and I would call a totally unacceptable handle is just fine.

Like many of the home DIY shows (which drive me up the wall), just by watching Forged in Fire, its implied that building a knife doesn't take very long.... I've had a number of inquires on knife orders who have balked at prices, and have actually stated..... "Your crazy, I watch Forged in Fire, and I know it only takes 3-4 hours to build a knife!" Not much you can do, other then to be polite, and then when you hang up the phone, just shake your head. To do otherwise is akin to trying to teach a pig to fetch..... it wastes your time, and annoys the pig!

I can't speak for anyone other then myself, but making the "best" knife I can, means EVERYTHING has to be the best I can do, and that includes the best fit and finish I can offer.....and that takes time and effort.

Just getting ready to post a forge question actually. :biggrin:

"is akin to trying to teach a pig to fetch..... it wastes your time, and annoys the pig!"

What a great line, I love it.

Self Made Knives said:

I wish I had something for you Ed! I always like your advice and usually even follow it. :biggrin: Now, if you really want to help, I've got about a 100' of 12' tall side walls ready for drywall mud, paint, and wiring. Bout time for a visit back to Arkansas?

Click to expand...

I think I can answer this one. HIRE IT OUT!

It'll take a skilled mudder less than a day to make it look perfect. With all the extra time you save, you can make a few knives.

^Amen to that!^ Last year we had to have our whole house rewired (1935 home), and they had to cut into pretty much all the walls. The guy who did the "tape-n-mud" was really cool to watch..... it's so awesome to watch someone who knows exactly what they're doing. Had it been me, I would have made a monkey's butt outta the whole thing!

Yeah, but I can't find anybody that will work as cheap as me! I hate drywall too, but I'm trying to do my shop in stages. I moved, unhooked, took apart, etc. everything from the back and moved it out of the way. Then went down one side and did the same. Trying to do half of the shop first, then shuffle everything the other way to the other half. It's such a mess I just want to give up sometimes. I'm going to try and put white metal roofing on for a ceiling too, haven't even started that.

Might me just me, but the metal roofing isn't bad at all. First thing I looked at in the pic was the rafters and wondered "Where's the insulation?" But then I remembered your in AR. Don't need it there. When we built my "new" blacksmith shop a dozen years ago..... I had to install roofing metal on the inside ceiling because sparks were hitting the roof insulation......only had a couple of "small" fires before I got busy and installed the steel on the ceiling!

It's always a chore to try to redo anything in a shop thats not empty...but hang in there....once it's done it will be soooooo nice!

Ed, here's another round of extremely noob questions. Since it's a slow day I figured I'd throw these out there since my internet searches don't turn up very specific answers and maybe more noobs will stumble across this thread. So, for the sake of posterity, would you address these?

I've only been doing stock removal and have never forged because I live in a residential neighborhood in the heart of yuppieville and didn't want to make a ton of noise, but now I realize that guys do it all the time and apparently it's not as noisy as I thought.

1. Can I forge in my 2 car attached garage (with the door rolled up) or do I need to make an area outside in the open air?
2. How big (heavy) an anvil do I need? I see recommendations for anvils in the 130lb range. Bigger and heavier always being better, what is the minimum you'd start out with because I see several anvils in the 60lb range available in my area.

1. Can I forge in my 2 car attached garage (with the door rolled up) or do I need to make an area outside in the open air?

Click to expand...

Of course ventilation is the key here. Personally, I would have some type of a fan, large enough to circulate air, and get the carbon monoxide out of the building (forges produce a huge amount of carbon monoxide). Be VERY aware of fire danger...meaning that if your garage is like many, with stuff piled all over the place (and most of it being flammable) either clear it out BEFORE you fire up the forge, or if that's not possible, forge outside.

2. How big (heavy) an anvil do I need? I see recommendations for anvils in the 130lb range. Bigger and heavier always being better, what is the minimum you'd start out with because I see several anvils in the 60lb range available in my area.

Click to expand...

IMO, I always recommend 125lb as the minimum, but on the other hand, any anvil is better then none at all. That being said, the reason I suggest at least 125lb is because of the amount of work you can accomplish versus the exertion you have to put in. There's no substitute for the weight of a GOOD anvil when it comes to the amount of work that can be accomplished. You mentioned that there are several in the 60lb range available in your area.... the reason is that anyone who has forging experience simply won't want an anvil that small. It would almost be to the point of being counter productive from a using standpoint. Although "good" anvils are expensive, and sometimes hard to find on the used market, it's worth the time and effort to find one. It's a "one time" type of purchase, that will pay for itself many times over. (By "good" I mean a quality anvil...not some cast iron thing that has no rebound to it, and will be "swayback" within a month.)

Well, getting no responses to my forge question so I'll ask it in this thread...

Any recommendations on gas forges? Currently looking at the 3 Burner Knifemaker Deluxe by Majestic Forge. They are only a couple hours away so would be easy to go pick it up. But some of the reviews say they can go through the gas quickly. Anyone have any opinion of them (good or bad) or recommendations on other similar forges?

Thanks,
WY_Not
aka Joseph

I have a Whisper Moma 2 burner propane forge. The heat in the forge is uneven, not that you can,t work around that but I also have a home built barrel type forge that is much more even.
The Majestic has needle valves to control each burner, wish mine had that feature
also the Moma has no lining at least mine doesn't but it's 25 yrs old, that may have changed.
Hope this helps a little I don,t forge much so take with a grain of salt.
Mark