Why not hitch receiver material?

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natenaaron

Member
I've been looking at diy 2x72 grinders. I am seeing very few made from 2 inch hitch receiver material. Is there a reason? Most look like they are put together from flat stock in much the same way the KMG is. Is there a benefit to this?
 
When it comes to a grinder, it's not so much the material type that you pay for, but more so the PRECISION of how it's put together. Tolerances, being square, true, concentric, and just about any other word(s) you can associate with precision. Obviously the tolerances on a hitch receiver are not the tightest....mainly because they are intended for a number of different applications. There's a reason that most of them have oval shaped, rather then round holes for attaching to a vehicle.....the tolerances are very loose.

Sometime I have to laugh when I see a "new" type/brand of 2x72 grinder for sale.... they might look "cool" in a picture, but with many, when you see them up close and personal, your eye can catch that the builders put little thought into precision....I've seen wheels visually out of alignment, frames that look warped, and many other things. Sometimes I have to wonder if the builders/sellers are trying to sell them based on the "cool factor".....because I know full well they wouldn't work worth a darn.

Most of the time I try to convince individuals to just save their pennies and buy a "good" grinder to begin with.....but IF you are capable of building one with very tight tolerances... go for it. The problem is that the perception of "precision" varies, and if you won't or can't build a grinder with precision tolerances, you're MUCH better off just saving up and buying one.

All that being said, I have been, and still am of the opinion that the KMG is the best bang for the buck grinder out there today.
 
Thanks Mr. Caffrey. I don't have a problem making something with precision. I am, in fact, very anal about it. But, the question becomes do I want to start making knives or do I want to make a grinder that will take me months to complete?. Hmmmmm......While I save my pennies, would a 1x42 suffice? Might help make my decision.
 
Anything in the way of a belt sander/grinder is better then nothing at all, but in reality the choice is simply.....either take the time to build a grinder "right", and it will serve you well for years and years to come....OR buy a good machine to start. You will never be disappointed, and if you buy one of the "top end" machines, you will almost certainly be able to get your investment back, should you ever decide to sell it.

I suspect that if you've never worked on one of the "good" grinders, you just won't know or understand what your missing, but if you eventually get one, you'll think to yourself.... "Wow! I wish I would have done this long ago!" I was that way with a variable speed grinder versus a single speed one....within a week of having/using a variable speed grinder, I found myself wondering how I ever did without one. :)
 
1x42 is what I'm using now while I acquire parts to make my 2x72. You go through belts like they are .05 each you turn out great knives and have minimal head ache when your starting out. Being a miser and trying to squeeze the life out of a belt you end up chasing your tail on the flaws that old belt make appear. Here is the latest finished knife off my 1x42. They can make a good clean useful and astetic pleasing knife.

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Walt, good looking knife - you're turning some good stuff these days.

Ed has said some very good facts and I do agree 100% with his statements.

"IF" you enjoy building tools and DIY stuff, then a grinder isn't very hard to build at all.... and surely won't take months to build. Order all the parts, and put it together over the weekend. Well, the 2nd one I built was a weekend's work, the first one was perhaps 2 weekends.

Here's a link to one I built a couple yr ago and have less than $500 total cost, including 2hp motor and VFD. It's pretty much a KMG clone with direct drive. Direct drive is the ONLY way to go for a grinder. I have a 10"X22" Grizzly lathe which really helps with saving some money by building my drive and idler wheels.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1234634-New-Grinder-for-me
 
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Matthew Gregory said:
I've got to be a bit of a contrarian on this point. To date, I've had a chance to grind with darn near every commercially available machine, and although I agree with Ed that some of these spend more money being dressed up and pretty without offering the meat of what makes a grinder worthwhile, I don't think the KMG platform is necessarily a good one, and certainly haven't found evidence of them being built to tight tolerances or precision. Quite the opposite, in fact. I wrestled with getting my own machine right for the better part of 45 days, and it's still only 'good'. The advantage to the platform, and the reason for it's success, is that Rob wisely chose inexpensive cold rolled steel for the bulk of the chassis, which is cheap, tough, and pretty flat. He doesn't, however, necessarily maintain tight tolerances. In his defense, these machines are first and foremost built to be inexpensive. That's important to remember. Having said that, both idler wheels on my stock platen were drilled and tapped crooked, the finish on my tracking wheel was rough, the axle for the pulley kit was bent IN THE MIDDLE, and even a couple of the bolts holding the tool arm parts together were stripped. Since my friend and I started making the direct drive kits available, people have come out of the woodwork to complain about their machines to me.
If I had the money to do it all over again, I'd invest in a Weurtz TW90. Of all the machines I've had a chance to use, this one was head and shoulders smoother than all of them. In fact, there is no close second. Brian Fellhoelter's Ubergrinder would be a good runner-up, as would Drew Riley's new machine, I suspect. I haven't used his yet, but his engineering looks quite sound. I've see Ed mention in the past that he had a bad run-in with Bader, but every experience I've had with them has been stellar, and every machine I've ever used that they made was perfectly consistent. In contrast to this, I don't think I've had a single encounter with Rob Frink where he didn't make me feel like a third-rate citizen, and I've yet to grind on two KMG's that felt the same, or that didn't have issues.

I think that's the most important part of discussions like this - everyone really needs to do their own research, and by all means GET OUT AND GET YOUR HANDS ON THEM. Experience these things for yourself! NO ONE has all the right answers, and everyone has an opinion - form your own!
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I'll take runner up on a TW-90 or an Ubergrinder any day! ;)

I can't speak for the others, as I've really only used a NWGS, but when designing and building my own machine, precision was paramount. Much of it was designed in CAD with tolerances out to .0001" or better, though obviously you'll never get quite that precise on a water jet. :D Still, it's going to have a little bit tighter tolerances than a NWGS for sure. haha

One thing I can say for certain... it definitely reduces the headaches of assembly when you know your parts are at least going to be within +/- .001 (at least with the parts that matter, and really, the whole machine assembled quite nicely with a little creative planning on my end.

Now, does that automatically make it a better machine? Not inherently I suppose, but I've been rather pleased so far.
 
Well Ed you are good at tinkering and making things.My father knew nothing and passed it on.So I am cursed I built a bird house once and it stayed vacant for a long time! I think one of the most valuable things I was told here was.When you get a grinder dont think you will be able to put a belt on it and it will work.That right there saved me a bunch of headaches:)
 
Matthew Gregory said:
GET OUT AND GET YOUR HANDS ON THEM. Experience these things for yourself! NO ONE has all the right answers, and everyone has an opinion - form your own!
Click to expand...

And here is my problem. There are none around for me to get my hands on. I live in a very rural location. This is by choice but it does have draw backs. I understand what you are saying and if I could I would try them out. Since this is not an option I am relying on people's opinions and my research. So far yours seems to be the only KMG detractor. You say the KMG is not the best plat form. Is this because of the material chosen or is it something to do with the design?
 
Matthew Gregory said:
If I had the money to do it all over again, I'd invest in a Weurtz TW90. Of all the machines I've had a chance to use, this one was head and shoulders smoother than all of them. In fact, there is no close second.
Click to expand...

I drooled over the tw90, couldn't get past the price. Nice piece of kit though. Travis Wuertz seems a pretty smart dude. As a mechanical engineer he obviously spent some time designing the tw90. He also won the Forged in Fire Viking sword episode so he is no stranger to grinding. I would have prefered that he used more standard material though.
 
So no issue with the design, then? Your issues are with quality of execution and corner cutting.

I've not been to blade forums but I will go check it out.
 
I have a Wilmont LB1000, Wilmont's economy 2x72. Fit and finish is excellent, as he says on the website, it took about 20 minutes to assemble. the pieces all appear to be water-jet cut, all holes done on a CNC mill, everything fit with no added work, no sharp edges or corners. it will accept 2 1.5"x 1.5" tooling arms, so you can buy his, ones from other makers, or make your own with thick wall square tube. total cost was $800, i drove the 75 miles to his shop to save on shipping. the grinder is direct drive and allows a 56C or 143TC motor to bolt on. I provided my own motor and VFD, so including that my investment was less than $1000.
IMHO, a much better buy than the Beaumont KMG(http://www.beaumontmetalworks.com/shop/item.aspx?itemid=11) because the LB1000 is designed for direct drive and has the mount for a second tooling arm.
 
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