what to buy when setting up a new shop

snowbeast

Member
Sat tonight working out my taxes for the past year and it looks like I will be getting some cash back.
After making adult decisions I have a portion I would like to put into getting myself into Knife making.
As a novice in a small town I don't have anybody to go visit or a shop to chat it out with.
Basically I own a 1x30 and have made two knives from the stock removal method. One a fail and one a rough almost acceptable knife.

My options are
1. Knife course in another town, use my 1x30, get a bubblejig and build a DIY coal forge, little left over buy materials.

2. Buy 2x72 http://www.herbst.co.za/index.php/products-services/machines/three-wheel-grinder
Will make it in budget with a couple belts.

3. Save for better grinder http://www.herbst.co.za/index.php/products-services/machines/ultimate-grinder

I do want to stick in budget as the rest is going to a college fund for my soon to be born daughter.

I am not going to be a full time knife maker but I want to eventually forge and become a bladesmith.

Thank you for your time, I find shop keepers just push their products and I need a good honest starting point.
 
In today's world, living in small town isn't that big of a deal. You can order what you need from anywhere and ship it anywhere. That being said, I would look around more at your grinder options. The one you list might be just fine, but there are a lot of others out there to choose from. My personal advice, get a 2"x72" with variable speed if you are serious about this hobby.

If you're good at building things, there are a couple of grinder kits out there. The owner of this forum sells a kit or just plans for a "No Weld" grinder. Check out Grinder in a Box and Wilmont grinders for some budget models.
 
Unless you're independently wealthy, outfitting a shop is a long term thing.....meaning that you buy things as you're financially able. When folks see my shop(s) for the first time, I often get "Gee, you've got a LOT of tools!" In reality what I actually have is 30 years of accumulation, meaning that it took me that long to outfit the shop in it's current manner.

That being said, whether you're forging, doing stock removal, or both..... a "Good" grinder is going to be the most important tool. I know they are expensive, but do yourself a favor and purchase a "good" 2 x 72 machine....even if it means you have to wait on other things. If you choose to use the 1X30 grinder, you will save some money for the moment, but you will also quickly become disenchanted with it, and will be searching for something "better" in a very short time. The way the pattern usually goes is a 1X30 or 1X42, then a 2X48" grinder (maybe even a couple of different types/brands) hoping for getting what you need for less money then a 2 x 72 machine costs..... then, by the time you spent enough money to buy a couple of higher end 2x72 machines, you'll cave in, and buy top end 2 x72. I've seen this cycle repeated over and over throughout my knifemaking career. So my advice is.... if you even are remotely serious about knifemaking, (save if necessary) and spend the money to buy a top end 2 X 72 grinder from the start. It will hold it's value, and generally you will always get very nearly your money back out of it, should you ever decide to sell. With any other grinder you're just spending the money, and have no hope of ever recovering it.
 
Thank you. I won't be able to furnish a shop in one go hence the post.
Thank you for the advice, with a child on the way I wanted to make sure I was using my money correctly.

I'll look for the plans and maybe build my own. :thumbs:
 
If I could join in a little on this... I'm very much a beginner too, and at this point, have no belt grinder at all.
I've tossed around the idea of the 1x30, simply because they're cheap, and I live like 6 minutes from a HF store... I havn't pulled the trigger though, because of reading posts like Ed's above.
I however find myself wanting some sort of grinder to "get my feet wet", but I don't have $1500 - 2000 in reasonable reach for what, at this point, is still sort of an experiment.
I'm seriously considering building something, but I'm kind of wondering where to go in that regard.
I'm guessing if I'm going to build, I might as well go 2x72, from the EERF plans, or something similar. I'm confident in my fabrication abilities to be sble to make something that will function, but I'm also sure that a first try with somewhat limited tooling (drill press, angle grinder, sawzall, small flux welder, etc) would be a far cry from one of the higher end machines.
I think my biggest question revolves around the motor issue. I see alot of recomendations for going 1+ hp, preferably with VFD, and again, at this stage of the game, for me at least, that's just not a practical reality. I do have a 1/2hp 3500rpm bench grinder that I was thinking of trying to use, but I'm afraid of either stepping it down to slow, or being badly underpowered at appropriate speed.
Could anyone offer advice as to what sfm I should shoot for, and wether that motor has a chance at being strong enough?
 
Building a grinder thats direct drive is a straight forward advancement from the 1x30 and adding a vfd later or next year is a pretty easy budget minded idea.
On the forum there is a thread on vfd and belt speeds sfm.
 
Wiredude;....... but I'm also sure that a first try with somewhat limited tooling (drill press said:
Don't sell yourself short on being able to build a good quality grinder. I built mine and spent a relatively small amount of money. I found a used motor on Craigslist for next to nothing, bought some plans from a forum member (Wayne Coe) and even found some scrap metal for some of the parts. I've got a 10" wheel, flat platen, and home made small wheel attachment and they all work great, but I don't think I even have $500 invested in all of it.

As far as the grinder motor, I'd say no way. It would be too weak and you don't want to deal with that high rpm. Probably should consider 1hp the minimum and try to find a 1750 rpm motor.
 
I agree with Anthony..... for a 2x72 machine, don't even consider anything less then a 1hp motor. I personally run 3 hp motors on my grinders, and would go higher if I could.....but there are limiting factors that I can't get around.

This might give you the idea of just going with a 1" machine, but don't let it steer you that way...you'll only regret it.
 
I've started with a 1x42" grinder. It works well and you can learn to use it...but Ed speaks the truth.

I'm 5 blades in and currently in the process of picking the 2x72 that I want (probably the Esteem).

If you consider that I still paid $300 for the original grinder, that means that I basically paid $60/finished knife (not counting the heap of scrap from failed bevel grinding). Sure, I'll still use it for some things going forward but its not a long term solution.
 
I have a 1x42 with a half horse and I curse it atleast once a week when it bogs down. Am counting down to moving and building a 2x72 with a 1.5hp.
 
I think part of me is just impatient, and wants something that I can at least use for now... kind of hard dome days to not go plop down the $45 and get the 1x30 at HF...
 
Well a 1x30 is good for handles. Lol I guess if you gotta grind something and can afford the splurge, go for it.
 
I think part of me is just impatient, and wants something that I can at least use for now... kind of hard dome days to not go plop down the $45 and get the 1x30 at HF...

Exercise a little adult restraint, :3: Only Cry Once! Buy a 2 x 72 with adjustable or variable speed.
 
Hi

I own a couple of 1x30 inch belt sanders, both with a 5 inch disc sander attached. One is a 30 year old Craftsman, the other from Harbor Freight. I do a little work attaching scales to Green River blades and they're fine for that. I understand that this is a completely under powered setup for doing stock removal for a living. What I'm having trouble working out is even ROUGHLY how much a decent 2x72 sander should cost. My Google Fu is not strong tonight. I'm seeing things between $150 and $4200, none state what the horsepower is.

Thanks
 
The Bubble Jig is an excellent investment; it will pay for itself many times over just in steel. It will also move perfection much closer to attainable by several years.

My very best advise is to enjoy learning to be a knife maker. There are volumes to learn; endless I say, after 17 years.

Regards, Fred
 
I agree Fred, since we last spoke our currency has dropped from R10 to the $ to R15 due to our president shuffling his cabinet and having two finance ministers in the space of a week.
Should have bought one sooner. Would have saved two scrapped blades and a couple hundred rand in exchanges
 
Hi snowbeast
Which one did you end up getting?I see Herbst offers courses as well which I'm thinking of doing just quite a distance from where I'm from

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
 
Unless you're independently wealthy, outfitting a shop is a long term thing.....meaning that you buy things as you're financially able. When folks see my shop(s) for the first time, I often get "Gee, you've got a LOT of tools!" In reality what I actually have is 30 years of accumulation, meaning that it took me that long to outfit the shop in it's current manner.

That being said, whether you're forging, doing stock removal, or both..... a "Good" grinder is going to be the most important tool. I know they are expensive, but do yourself a favor and purchase a "good" 2 x 72 machine....even if it means you have to wait on other things. If you choose to use the 1X30 grinder, you will save some money for the moment, but you will also quickly become disenchanted with it, and will be searching for something "better" in a very short time. The way the pattern usually goes is a 1X30 or 1X42, then a 2X48" grinder (maybe even a couple of different types/brands) hoping for getting what you need for less money then a 2 x 72 machine costs..... then, by the time you spent enough money to buy a couple of higher end 2x72 machines, you'll cave in, and buy top end 2 x72. I've seen this cycle repeated over and over throughout my knifemaking career. So my advice is.... if you even are remotely serious about knifemaking, (save if necessary) and spend the money to buy a top end 2 X 72 grinder from the start. It will hold it's value, and generally you will always get very nearly your money back out of it, should you ever decide to sell. With any other grinder you're just spending the money, and have no hope of ever recovering it.
Hello Ed. I realize this is an old post, but I've been looking at "belt grinder" topics hoping to reach some sort of conclusion as to when I'm ready to actually buy a top end belt grinder, I know which one I will go with. This was not a consideration until I started working again (which happened yesterday) so once I make sure this contract will last, I will be buying a top end grinder. My questions after stating all of the above is this: Which belt grinder are you using in your shop and the one you like the best?
 
Hello Ed. I realize this is an old post, but I've been looking at "belt grinder" topics hoping to reach some sort of conclusion as to when I'm ready to actually buy a top end belt grinder, I know which one I will go with. This was not a consideration until I started working again (which happened yesterday) so once I make sure this contract will last, I will be buying a top end grinder. My questions after stating all of the above is this: Which belt grinder are you using in your shop and the one you like the best?
I am, and for over 20 y ears, have been a fan of KMG grinders. The basic model is the simplest, most well built grinder for the money. It is also the most copied design on the planet when it comes to belt grinders....that alone should tell you something. ;)

Right now, I have a basic model KMG grinder, that has been in the shop/in service for 20+ years. I've modified it into a direct drive (which KMG offers now), and with simple, routine maintenance, the only things I have had to do in all those years is replace some contact wheel bearings.... and a worn out idler wheel......which, for the amount of grinding I do, is inevitable.

Last year I pick up the KMG TX..... Over the years, I have used pretty much every machine currently available
IMO, There is simply not a better thought out/executed/built grinder available then the KMG TX. This machine is everything a knife grinder should be, with a number of "value added" features, that I never realized until I was using the machine. That being said, there are ALWAYS things that I modify on ANY machine, just to suit my person tastes/preferences. In the case of the KMG grinders. I have my own designed platen and tooling arms that I build/use...that makes changing attachments much quicker/easier. I also change out the tracking adjustment knobs, for something more precision, and comfortable to use.

I also value the customer service offered by Beaumont Metal Works (who produces the KMG grinders), which has always been head and shoulders above any other company I've dealt with.
In the past, there have been people complaining online about their customer service, but I did some investigating, and after talking with Rob Frink (the previous owner and now head engineer of Beaumont) those complaints came from people who were making very unreasonable demands....such as demanding that Rob walk them through how to install/wire a 220v circuit in their garage/shop.... or other similar/stupid things. Simple Fact..... KMG is, and always has been there for it's customers, and provides the best customer service I have encountered in the world of knife grinders/machines.

Here is something I want you to be keenly aware of.....
There are a TON of new outfits that are building/selling grinders these days.....all trying to make a fast buck on the current popularity of knifemaking. DO NOT fall for their sale pitch hype! Most of them will be here until the popularity of knifemaking dies down, and then they will be gone. AND, if you were one of the suckers who plunked down your hard earned cash on their hype and gimmick grinder....you will be hosed if you ever require parts or customer service. What am I talking about?? Those who offer machines with hype such as "Light weight yet strong aluminum construction!"...."Precision Laser cut Parts!"..... of any other BS they use to try to get you to buy their machine.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you have to buy a KMG..... just buy a machine that is well known, and has been around for some time... and that will be there when you need them. Those are the machines that will also have resale value. Buy one of the fly by night machines, and you'll never get anything out of it, should you choose to sell it down the road. Buy a well known, time tested company's machine..... and you can use it literally for decades, and still get very nearly what you paid for it, should you ever choose to sell.
Case in point....my first real grinder was a Wilton Square Wheel, purchased for $500 new, in 1984. Just last summer (2020), I sold the chassis, and the flat platen (no motor) for $900!! ;)

Just do your homework, take your time, and be/buy smart. That doesn't mean "cheap"...... if you buy the right machine, its an investment, and will not only pay for itself in knives ground, but should the time ever come that you decide/need to sell it..... you will get a good return. ;)
 
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I am, and for over 20 y ears, have been a fan of KMG grinders. The basic model is the simplest, most well built grinder for the money. It is also the most copied design on the planet when it comes to belt grinders....that alone should tell you something. ;)

Right now, I have a basic model KMG grinder, that has been in the shop/in service for 20+ years. I've modified it into a direct drive (which KMG offers now), and with simple, routine maintenance, the only things I have had to do in all those years is replace some contact wheel bearings.... and a worn out idler wheel......which, for the amount of grinding I do, is inevitable.

Last year I pick up the KMG TX..... Over the years, I have used pretty much every machine currently available
IMO, There is simply not a better thought out/executed/built grinder available then the KMG TX. This machine is everything a knife grinder should be, with a number of "value added" features, that I never realized until I was using the machine. That being said, there are ALWAYS things that I modify on ANY machine, just to suit my person tastes/preferences. In the case of the KMG grinders. I have my own designed platen and tooling arms that I build/use...that makes changing attachments much quicker/easier. I also change out the tracking adjustment knobs, for something more precision, and comfortable to use.

I also value the customer service offered by Beaumont Metal Works (who produces the KMG grinders), which has always been head and shoulders above any other company I've dealt with.
In the past, there have been people complaining online about their customer service, but I did some investigating, and after talking with Rob Frink (the previous owner and now head engineer of Beaumont) those complaints came from people who were making very unreasonable demands....such as demanding that Rob walk them through how to install/wire a 220v circuit in their garage/shop.... or other similar/stupid things. Simple Fact..... KMG is, and always has been there for it's customers, and provides the best customer service I have encountered in the world of knife grinders/machines.

Here is something I want you to be keenly aware of.....
There are a TON of new outfits that are building/selling grinders these days.....all trying to make a fast buck on the current popularity of knifemaking. DO NOT fall for their sale pitch hype! Most of them will be here until the popularity of knifemaking dies down, and then they will be gone. AND, if you were one of the suckers who plunked down your hard earned cash on their hype and gimmick grinder....you will be hosed if you ever require parts or customer service. What am I talking about?? Those who offer machines with hype such as "Light weight yet strong aluminum construction!"...."Precision Laser cut Parts!"..... of any other BS they use to try to get you to buy their machine.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you have to buy a KMG..... just buy a machine that is well known, and has been around for some time... and that will be there when you need them. Those are the machines that will also have resale value. Buy one of the fly by night machines, and you'll never get anything out of it, should you choose to sell it down the road. Buy a well known, time tested company's machine..... and you can use it literally for decades, and still get very nearly what you paid for it, should you ever choose to sell.
Case in point....my first real grinder was a Wilton Square Wheel, purchased for $500 new, in 1984. Just last summer (2020), I sold the chassis, and the flat platen (no motor) for $900!! ;)

Just do your homework, take your time, and be/buy smart. That doesn't mean "cheap"...... if you buy the right machine, its an investment, and will not only pay for itself in knives ground, but should the time ever come that you decide/need to sell it..... you will get a good return. ;)
Ed, I haven't been on this forum for very long but I've noticed that you go "All out" when someone poses a question to you. Your reply to me above is hands down super valuable! And I thank you much for you taking the time to compose such a time consuming and detailed response. I will check out Beaumont ! Thanks again sir.
 
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