Looking at buying a 2×72 grinder finally.

coachcampana

Well-Known Member
So I've made enough knives with my crappy grinder that I finally want to upgrade to a decent grinder. Any 2/72 will be a massive upgrade from what I've been using.....But I'm looking at the Polar Bear forge set up, Pheer and Oregon Blade Maker.

I want to stay around the 1k mark or alot less if I can help it. The big advantage, to me, with the Pheer, is that it comes with the motor and speed control box. So less initial footwork for me.

I'd really like some input here.
Thanks!
 
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My grandmother used to say:
"Buy quality, buy once."
In other words, I know you want to stay around a certain price point, but are you only ensuring that you will be upgrading again later?
I am not familiar with any of the makes/models you mentioned and I just did a quick search on them. The Pheer looks a lot like the KMG design from Beaumont Metal works.
(I think Beaumont has a forum on Knife dogs somewhere)
I have the KMG and I am extremely happy with it. I ordered everything I needed to get fully set up. Grinder, motor, controller, platen, different wheels and the small wheel attachment. What they didn't sell, (different rests, curved platens, beveling jigs, etc.) I made very easily. The KMG is a very versatile grinder. Look into it.
 
My grandmother used to say:
"Buy quality, buy once."
In other words, I know you want to stay around a certain price point, but are you only ensuring that you will be upgrading again later?
I am not familiar with any of the makes/models you mentioned and I just did a quick search on them. The Pheer looks a lot like the KMG design from Beaumont Metal works.
(I think Beaumont has a forum on Knife dogs somewhere)
I have the KMG and I am extremely happy with it. I ordered everything I needed to get fully set up. Grinder, motor, controller, platen, different wheels and the small wheel attachment. What they didn't sell, (different rests, curved platens, beveling jigs, etc.) I made very easily. The KMG is a very versatile grinder. Look into it.

Thanks cliffrat. This is what I'm looking for. Advice from people that have spent their money already. I'd prefer to not need another upgrade in the future. I'll look into the grinder you listed. Still, I do have a budget. But I'm open to the possibility of fudging that..... Thanks again.
 
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That is awesome. But now the cost is getting a little out there for me. If knife making were my full time job, I could see spending that kind of money.
 
"Buy quality, buy once."

Best advice you can hear when it comes to buying a grinder. I was like most others when I started out..... kept telling myself "I can't afford THAT grinder"...... long story short, after spending enough money on various "grinders" to have purchased one of the "top end" grinders, and being sorely dissapointed with all of them, I saved my pennies and purchased a Wilton Square Wheel (this was WAY before the KMG came along). That Square wheel has been used for nearly 30 years.....and its still going strong.

I'm a big fan of the KMG. Simple, and built like a tank. I've had two in my shop for 10+ years. What makes then so great is not only the fact they they are "a rock"......but moreso the customer service that Rob Frink provides is outstanding....thats a pretty big deal to me, considering that most of the other grinder sellers I've tried to deal with have lousy customer service.

If your building skills are up to it, the Polar bear isn't a bad deal....provided you're able to change the belt tensioning system. I have a very strong opinion against any belt tensioning system that uses a tension spring.....in my experience they simply don't work well. I've built a number of those type of grinders for others (using the EERF files), and until I modified the design with a compression spring (similar to what the KMG uses) I couldn't see why anyone would want one. With the belt tension change, they are totally different machines.....I liked it so much that I build one for the 3rd grinder in my shop. All that being said, consider that you're going to have to buy a motor (and a controllers if you want a varible speed)..... by the time you're there, you've spend approx the same money you would on a KMG, which with about 20 mins worth of wiring, is going to be ready to go.
 
I happen to be trying to sell my esteem 2x72 grinder. it is 3 months old and has all the bells and whistles for the price of a basic. It is kbac controlled variable drive, It has the flat platen, 8" contact wheel, and small wheel attachment all three have their own tool arms. It has a work rest and even throwing in all belts. I purchased it in may and blew my back out in august. It can be wired for either 110 (currently set up this way) or 220. I have some pics but the lighting is crappy. check them out on the mfg. website (www.esteemgrinders.com) I am asking 1500.00 plus shipping.
 
I'm a little biased and think you should go with the GIB 2.0. ;)


Jamie

(Note: Ed's a little behind, the GIB 2.0 has an air shock option built in for tension instead of the spring. There's also a conversion kit for the owners of the original GIB to convert it to the shock.)
 
Regardless of how much money you have right now, save 500 more then buy. I personally have a pheer and couldnt be happier.
 
(Note: Ed's a little behind, the GIB 2.0 has an air shock option built in for tension instead of the spring.

Thanks for updating me! I had no idea! :) Very nice that you've gone to the "shock" for belt tension.
 
I have an original Phere that still going strong. I bought mine not sure of the unit or if I was seriously going to make knives full time. It has served me well. I have several friends that have purchased them after using mine. Jose has great customer service and nearly always answers the phone himself.

If you buy it get the largest motor you can afford. You can always reduce the speed. It's harder to up what you don't have.

Two other options to consider are the Wilmont Little Buddy and the Outlaw I.

I'm planning on another grinder in the shop and looking at the Wilmont TAG or the Outlaw II complete package.

Whatever you get try to get a VFD unit instead of a pulley drive or fixed speed unit. The difference is like night and day.
 
I am in the process of building the Polar Bear Forge, Grinder in a box. I am going to use a 110 v 1 hp single speed motor For a few months until I can afford a VFD and a 3 pf 2 hp motor. The 1 hp will then become a 9" disc grinder. I am putting a flat platen and will get contact wheels when I get the cash. This way I can have a good grinder that can convert to a horizonal pretty easy, and with the upgrades I should have a great grinder after a few months, that way I can have my cake and eat it too. Ed

I like the GIB kit so far It went together well. Have a friend that is a maker and he likes his GIB better than his Bomont KMG.
 
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Jamie's GIB is a good option and you can get a reasonably priced quality grinder out of it. Check out his web-site.
You could also check out my DVD for $45.00 and build your grinder from standard off the shelf metal. You may already have what you need or can check out local salvage yards. Depending on the quality of your scrap pile you can build this grinder for around $1,100.00 including the motor, VFD and wheels.

Let me know if I can help you.
 
Let me start off by saying I love my Grinder in a Box, but the version 2.0 was not without it's bugs. I had a terrible time getting mine to track correctly until I discovered that using the gas shock that Jamie suggested created a situation that caused the plane of the tracking wheel to change as you adjust the tracking. It's kind of hard to explain, so I created a video to show the problem and a solution.

[video=youtube_share;53wK5gvC3Xk]https://youtu.be/53wK5gvC3Xk[/video]

Bottom line is that the GIB is a great 2x72 once you get all the kinks out of it.
 
....provided you're able to change the belt tensioning system. I have a very strong opinion against any belt tensioning system that uses a tension spring.....in my experience they simply don't work well.
Ed, could you elaborate a little on the difference between tension spring and a compression spring performance? I've only built one grinder so far, and that's the only one I've touched in my life. It has a tension spring and maybe ignorance is bliss, but it seems to work fine. I'm having a hard time putting my finger on why one would be better than the other, seems like if there is "X" lbs of force pushing up on the tracking wheel, why would it matter what was pushing? Maybe spring travel? Geometry? Fill me in if you get a chance, I'm planning on adding an EERF soon.
 
Well, we all come at things through the lens of our own experiences, so what I'm about to say comes from my own personal experiences with a number of different grinders that use tension springs versus compression springs for belt tensioning.

Its all about power of the belt tension, and leverage. All of the tension spring grinders I've come across have the tension spring connected to a short nub of the ilder arm that sticks out to the rear of its mounting point, and the other end to the lower part of the grinder frame.

From the standpoint of leverage, this is very weak as far as the force it exerts on the belt tension. The tesnion spring must overcome the leverage disadvantage plus keep the belt tight. Its just a loosing situation compared to a compression spring that is mounted at, or near the spot in the idler are where the tracking/idler wheel is attached. The biggest issue most folks have with tension spring belt tension is the belt "wandering" more and more as grinding pressure is increased.

You can always put a heavier tension spring on a grinder, but by the time you have a large/strong enough spring to match what a compression spring provides, the idler arm often "jumps" straight up when you remove a belt. I personally know of one guy who lost a tooth when he released the belt after installing a heavy tension spring, and lost his grip on the idler arm handle..... and got smacked in the mouth by the idler arm handle.

On a lot of the "Homemade" grinders (and/or those with assembly required), there is often some "slop" in the connection between the frame and the idler arm (must be enough to allow the arm to move, but not so much as to allow side to side play)....this causes a tension spring to "pull" the idler/tracking wheel slightly out of alignment with the rest of the wheels. Of course how much depends on the distanct the idler wheel is from the idler arm connection point......and how the tension spring is connected (in a straight line of one end out of line with the other). With a compression spring mounted as close as possible inline with the connection point of the idler wheel, those issues are a non-factor.

Theres a whole other set of variables when it comes to the using the "lift cylinders" for belt tensioning. But if some thought is put into how they work, and they are mounted accordingly, they are very nice. I feel the most important thing with lift cylinders used for belt tensioning is to ensure they are mounted with the "rod" facing downward, to protect the seals...... I had two lift cylinders fail in two weeks, that were mounted with the rod up, due to grit getting into, and wreaking the seals. I've since gone back to compression springs on all of my machines, simply because they require no maintenance, and are far less costly then replacing lift cylinders.

Finally, personally I feel that with a grinder that has a sliding tooling arm, such as the KMG, EERF, etc., the combination of a compression spring, used in conjunction with the tooling arm being capable of "sliding" back and forth offers more versatility, especially when it comes to "slack belt" grinding situations...... I just find the ability to "soften" or "stiffen" the belt much simpler/easier with the compression spring/tooling arm then with other tensioning systems.
 
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Let me start off by saying I love my Grinder in a Box, but the version 2.0 was not without it's bugs. I had a terrible time getting mine to track correctly until I discovered that using the gas shock that Jamie suggested created a situation that caused the plane of the tracking wheel to change as you adjust the tracking. It's kind of hard to explain, so I created a video to show the problem and a solution.

Bottom line is that the GIB is a great 2x72 once you get all the kinks out of it.


Thanks for the video. I haven't heard of that issue from anybody yet and never noticed it on mine either. I can see how it could occurr though. I'll play around with it a bit and see what I figure out.

Jamie
 
Thanks for the video. I haven't heard of that issue from anybody yet and never noticed it on mine either. I can see how it could occurr though. I'll play around with it a bit and see what I figure out.

Jamie

Yeah, I didn't really notice it until I started using different tooling arms, such as a small wheel holder and a ten inch wheel. When I did, I found I would have to change the entire set up of my wheels any time I changed arms. Once I was able to get the tracking arm horizontal, so that the axle of the tracking wheel adjustment block was horizontal and the wheel stays in line and doesn't skew from side to side, it made a tremendous difference. Now I can run any wheel set up and even run the belt forward or backwards and the tracking is dead nuts on. Like I say in the video, a shorter gas shock would do the trick as well, I just wasn't able to find one. I know that making a taller upright for the kit would kill your ability to ship in a Priority Mail flat rate box, which works great.
 
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Ill throw in a plug for the Esteem grinder..Ive used about all the big name grinder except the TW-90 which I know is an outstanding machine and pretty much top dog these days. Ive used KMG's which are a good grinder,Wiltons,cootes,industrial grinders etc..For the money its hard to beat an Esteem. Its built very heavy and a great thing about it is that its direct drive(the reason its so quite and smooth but I don't have anything against belt drives)..Its smoother than all the other 2x72's that Ive personally used. Tracks rock steady too. You can get the grinder with choice of platen or contact wheel, Tool/work rest,2hp motor and Nema 4 VFD for $1650..I got that with a 8" wheel and extra tool bar shipped all the way across the country for right at $2k
 
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