Rust!!!!!!! Arghhhh!!!!!!!!

Put a light coat of 3n1 oil on a knife Sunday and put in the sheath. Just pulled it out, 48 hrs later and it's got rust on it!!! It's been really humid here and I've had the windows open. I've always heard your not supposed to keep a blade stored in a leather sheath, but is that realistic? I think most customers will keep it in the sheath.

I've got to ship this one cross country in a few days, need advice on best thing to use on satin finished 1095 or O1 blades. Oil? Wax? Kind of panicking!

I had the same problem with O1. What I figured happened was I didn't let the sheath dry long enough. Now I let it sit for a couple days after complete before storing the knife in it. Far as oil, I've had good luck with pure mineral oil or vasoline. Both work well.

-Aaron

Wax on.....wax off! Dump the oil, and use a good paste wax on your knives....just about any brand of automotive paste wax works well, as long as it doesn't contain silicone. Personally I like Mother's brand caranuba cleaner/wax (about $12 at Walmart). It just a matter of finding what you like...many makers love RenWax.... I keep it in the shop too, but its one of those that you have to learn that a little goes a long way, and you have to be sure not to let a heavy coat of it dry on the knife, othewise you can literally see the wax on the knife. Wax protects better and longer then oils, doesn't draw dirt/dust, and can be used on the entire knife with no problems. I can't remember the last time I ever used any type of oil on a knife.

Glad Aaron mentioned the sheath might be damp.....even here in Montana, with average humidity in the 20-30% range, it takes a minimum of 3 days for a sheath to naturally dry to the point where I feel its safe to put a knife in it.

This sheath was done about a week ago and I even put it in oven at low temp after putting Aussie on it. I think it's just the humidity. I guess I'm more worried about this happening again once it's in customer's hands. I've used mineral oil on kitchen knives, never tried vasoline. I'm hoping someone recommends a more lasting solution I can recommend to customers.
EDIT:
Ed, I guess you were typing the same time I was and I didn't see your post. Do you give your customers a printed "How to care for your knife" instruction sheet? I'm thinking about including a note in the package when shipping. Fortunately, the hazy looking rust is mostly from the tip to about halfway, so I can hit it again with 600 grit and no one will be the wiser. I'm going to take a look at wax tomorrow, probably the one you mentioned. On such short notice, don't where I'd find the Ren Wax around here anyway.

Another thing I have found that helps is to wax my sheath. I use a mixture of bees wax, paraffin wax and neatsfoot oil. It seams to displace all the moisture and really helps water proof the leather.

I use to make a mixture including beeswax to coat my blades. I now use a little Aussie on the blade. As Ed said a little goes a long ways.

put it in oven at low temp after putting Aussie on it

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Personally, I discourage doing anything that "speeds" drying of any part of a knife. In my experience it creates more problems then it solves. With leather sheaths, especially in humid environments, placing them is a warm oven to dry will certainly dry them, but the issue is that you are dealing with a natural material, which will always try to "equal" itself out depending on the surrounding environement. What that means is the leather will "over dry".....then when its laying around in the environment, it will "soak up" moisture, kind of like a spounge.....and will hold it. This doesn't happen if you let a sheath dry naturally.....which means you generally will not have a moisture issue. Long story short, its just better if you hang a wet formed sheath in the open air, and give it the time it needs to dry.

Now a note about applying "finish"..... the whole key is to ensure the sheath is "dry", not over dried, not under dried. The length of time thats required will depend on local environment, but as I mentioned, here in Montana, where we generally have 20-30% humidity, it take a minimum of 3 days,

On the issue of customer care.....yes, every knife that I send out has "paperwork" that goes with it, giving the client a list of "dos" and "don'ts".

Heres an portion of what the paperwork contains:

[h=2]How to care for your knife[/h]

1. Treat your knife as you would your favorite hunting rifle or non-stainless steel handgun. All Caffrey Knives are Carbon or alloy steel, and they will rust.
2. DO NOT!
   1. Allow your knife to remain in a hot environment such as a dashboard or near a high source of heat.
   2. NEVER, NEVER, put your knife in the dishwasher (don’t laugh, a number of folks have done this and really wrecked their knife.)
   3. Use your knife as a pry bar, screwdriver, or as a makeshift hammer.
   4. Pound on the spine of the knife with a rock or other hard items. It’s ok to use a chunk of wood/tree limb if you must drive the blade through something.
   5. Store the knife in the scabbard/sheath for extended periods of time (leather). Leather will draw any moisture that is present and will likely cause tarnish or rust to form on the steel.

Whatever you state/mention in paperwork you send to a customer does two things.... 1. Gives the customer guidelines to keep their knife is good condition. 2. It wil protect the knifemaker....customers do some crazy things that defy explaination.....I can't count the number of people who will store their knife in the sheath, then call me complaining that the blade "Has rust on it!" Sorry, but had you read the included paperwork......

I've had good success with Renaissance wax. It's used by museums as an archival coating on just about every surface you can think of. A simple wipe on, wipe off will maintain a satin finish, but it can also be buffed for a glossy look. Don't goop it on like you would a paste wax, just a very light coat over the whole knife, including the scales, will give it a durable finish and protect it from changes in humidity. It's kind of expensive, but, because you only use a little, it lasts a long time.

Ed, is this the stuff you mentioned?

Briwax, $16 at ace hardware and will last you for the rest of your life. I called briwax and they said it's food safe once it dries...as most should be i think. I coat it on the blade (as stated a little bit goes a loooong way) and handle and buff out with a soft rag or old t-shirt. polishes real nice. do the same for the sheath. Just make sure it sets up for a few days on the sheath and buff it good or your dye will stain easily.

I do this with all my knives and I store my knives in their leather sheaths for years on end. after starting to do this i've never had a problem with rust and I'll be willing to bet our 100% Mississippi humidity 9 months out of the year is worse than yours . The only time I use oil (mineral oil) is in the finishing process if I can't get to finishing as quickly as I'd like and it's going to sit for a minute before I'm ready to complete it....just because oil is a little easier.

Self Made Knives said:

This sheath was done about a week ago and I even put it in oven at low temp after putting Aussie on it. I think it's just the humidity. I guess I'm more worried about this happening again once it's in customer's hands. I've used mineral oil on kitchen knives, never tried vasoline. I'm hoping someone recommends a more lasting solution I can recommend to customers.
EDIT:
Ed, I guess you were typing the same time I was and I didn't see your post. Do you give your customers a printed "How to care for your knife" instruction sheet? I'm thinking about including a note in the package when shipping. Fortunately, the hazy looking rust is mostly from the tip to about halfway, so I can hit it again with 600 grit and no one will be the wiser. I'm going to take a look at wax tomorrow, probably the one you mentioned. On such short notice, don't where I'd find the Ren Wax around here anyway.

Click to expand...

You can have Renaissance Wax delivered to your door!
http://www.amazon.com/Renaissance-Wax-Polish-65ml/dp/B003AJWN62

Here is another source!
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/2227541091/renaissance-wax-rust-preventative-and-gun-stock-polish

I'm ordering some, just didn't want to wait for shipping on this one. Told guy I would ship this week. Going to try Ed's stuff for now, but I look forward to trying both. Maybe a little side by side test would be fun.

Anthony..... thats the exact brand I like (the pic you posted), but I prefer the paste type wax.....only because the liquid stuff can be difficult to get out of nooks and crannys.

Somebody has to say this. Come over to the stainless side. :biggrin: I get the carbon thing for that customer that will treat his knife like his rifle - and a bit of nostalgia to boot maybe with a forged blade. The difference in steel price for a blade is - what - $10 on a knife that is going to sell for $200 or much more. For every carbon steel characteristic, there is a stainless that will match or exceed it. (Maybe not differential temper but really - to what purpose for that guys hunting knife?)

Yes, I acknowledge that there are some things possible with carbon that are not with stainless - and vice versa. My point is to the modern consumer. He doesn't even treat his rifle right - never mind his knife. Sooner or later, he is going to cut into something acidic - put his knife away in a wet sheath - or leave it in the toolbox in the back of the truck. ... and there is your maker's mark on a piece of junk.

Purchasing a carbon blade should be like purchasing a well bred dog. The buyer should have to apply for it - with approval based on what kind of a home the maker thinks the blade will get. To be clear, this isn't about the merits of Carbon vs Stainless. It's about the rare customer who should be offered a carbon blade.

I think this is on topic. If a maker is having rust problems, what chance does a user have?

I agree with you completely! I made one hunter out of 14c28n and loved it, that is my personal knife now. I started with O1 and then tried 1095, but most of the blades I've made were either blued, parkerized, or ferric dipped. I haven't had too much trouble with those. I had a bunch of blanks lasered out of 1095 and until those are used up I'm on the carbon steel train. I would love to buy the 14c28n in sheets big enough for water jet or laser, but can't find in big sizes.

Ed, do you mind if I reuse some of your care instructions? I've been looking at some other makers websites and have put together a collaboration of info to include from now on. I can share what I've got later when I'm back at computer if anyone is interested in proof reading or correcting info.

Ughh.....I just had some minor spotting on a blade that was oiled and wrapped in paper towel and then electrical tape it has set a few days I was finishing shaping the handle take of the wrap and there it was. I'm about done with 01 it just wants to rust...lol..I feel your pain Anthony.
JP

For anyone who's interested, I've taken what Ed provided and added to it with info from other makers sites as well as my own thoughts. Here's the instruction sheet I'm going to start including with every carbon steel knife I sell. Check if for errors or if you think it needs improving, please let me know.


Do’s
1. Treat your knife as you would your favorite hunting rifle or non-stainless steel handgun. Carbon or alloy steel will rust.
2. To clean, hand wash blades when necessary with non-abrasive gentle detergent, rinse well and dry.
3. Clean handles and sheaths with damp cloth and buff with soft dry cloth.
4. Never oil any knife! This is an old practice from the 19th century. Oil attracts dust and clings to small abrasive particles. These particles will end up in the sheath, no matter what the sheath is made of, and scratch the blade. Wax will remain slick and resist dirt, sand, and abrasive particles.
5. A light coat of Renaissance Wax will protect your blade better than oil. Do not over-wax. A very small amount goes along way. Use the same wax on the handles too. You can also use silicone free automotive wax, such as Mother’s Carnauba cleaner/wax.
6. Some of my carbon steel knife blades are blued, parkerized, or acid washed. Those coatings form a very thin patina that can eventually wear away, leaving a gray metal finish. They are rust inhibitors, not rust preventatives. Keep clean and dry, wax as above.
7. If rust does form on your blade, you can use extra fine steel wool or 600 grit wet/dry sandpaper to clean and remove it. Clean/sand lengthwise on the blade to retain its original look.
8. You can also just let the blade form a natural patina over time, some people like the natural look a carbon steel blade takes on over time.

Do Not’s
1. DO NOT allow your knife to remain in a hot environment such as a dashboard or near a high source of heat. .Ultraviolet light oxidizes woods, often changing the color. Heat bakes the protective oils out of most hardwoods and weakens adhesive bonds. Prolonged exposure to the sun and heat can also destroy knife sheaths.
2. NEVER, NEVER, put your knife in the dishwasher (don’t laugh, a number of folks have done this and really wrecked their knife.)
3. DO NOT use your knife as a pry bar, can opener, screwdriver, or as a makeshift hammer.
4. DO NOT pound on the spine of the knife with a rock or other hard items. It’s ok to use a chunk of wood/tree limb if you must drive the blade through something.
5. DO NOT store the knife in the scabbard/sheath for extended periods of time, especially leather. Leather will draw any moisture that is present and will likely cause tarnish or rust to form on the steel. Kydex sheaths can also keep moisture or condensation on blade, so same rule applies for long term storage.
6. DO NOT use any kind of oil on the sheath; this will cause them to soften, weakening their protective function,softening glues, sealants, and dyes.
7. And lastly, DO NOT cut the retention strap on you leather sheath. Repeated withdraws without paying attention will ruin the strap. When you unsnap the strap, hold it out the way until the knife clears the sheath. Same thing goes when reinserting it.

<<<<I have a pic here on the document that shows a cut a strap>>>>

I stand behind my work and put out the best quality possible. There’s a good chance this knife will outlive you if cared for properly. If you ever have a problem with your knife, let me know and I’ll do my best to make it right. However, I can’t be responsible for broken tips, corrosion, abuse, etc.

And at the end I add my contact info and logo. What do you think?

Looks good Anthony! I've found that over the years I will modify my "care info" from time to time. Its terrible to say it this way, but it usually occurs when somebody does something really dumb to wreck their knife or sheath...something I couldn't even have dreamed up......as of right now my "care info" is a 3 page document that gets shipped with every knife. Some might think its not necessary to include something like this with a knife, but I'm here to tell you that it will give you legs to stand on when you get that call from a client who did something crazy, and wants to know "can you repair/fix this?" (and they want it for free). Personally I think its important to include something like.... "warranty DOES NOT cover misuse or abuse". As the old saying goes.....You can't fix stupid!

The best rust preventative is pure mineral oil . Its used on some of the finest carbon blades. I used to use clove oil but, after some extensive testing by Japanese sword makers , they found pure mineral oil is better than their traditional oil . The finest Japanese chefs knives are made from carbon core Sanmai sometimes clad with Stainless . Believe it or not Japanese chefs prefer this because Stainless imparts a taste to sushi that is not pleasing to their taste buds...

The main reason some folks still like carbon steels is, because of their ability to get extremely sharp , mainly because of the toothy microscopic edge certain carbon steels have. Pure mineral oil does not stain blades as so many modern oils do . Including breakfree and most gun oils . They contain solvents that can stain even stainless , or change color of steel. I use it on swords that are way high in price , never had any rust on swords...

I like stainless though for skinning knives .