Offensive Cheapskates !

AkWildman

Well-Known Member
Why is it that the guy with all the bling,name brand sunglasses,show car,pool,suntan,you know the guy will pester you about a knife and then ask you for a price then when you give him the base price on a model that you sell all day long at that price he says ouch and that's the end of conversation ? I just smile and let it go because my list of clients grows every day but it really ticks me off when someone does this.
 
It is all about priorities, that same person will spend 600 on a golf club. It really says nothing about anything other than where their priorities lye. It bothers me not that they don't want to spend the money but that they then have to make it sound like you are ripping people off. No more than the $5 coffee or $2 pop they can be produced for pennies but people pay based on a perceived value. What it is worth to the individual purchasing the product. I don't want a customer like that, I like the person who feels they have just gotten the best deal of their life and happily pays what ever you charge. And for that person I will give my work away.
 
I just chuckle and say I take it you do not know much about hand made and custom knives and leave it at that.
 
I was thinking the same thing! It always happens to me when I have a high dollar bowie or folder on the table.... invaribly, someone grabs it up, then gasps when they see the price.

Where the "offense" comes in for me is when that individual literally drops the knife back on the table....I had an instace of that at the Blade Show a few years ago....a guy grabbed up a $2k bowie without asking, then when he saw the price he literally tossed it back on the table....and in the process damaged not only the bowie, but two damascus folders. Suffice to say I was a bit more then "offended". :)
 
Whoa, Ed, he damaged your merchandise? He would have just bought it as far as Im concerned.

People are very strange sometimes. Last Sunday I had just sold one of my Mini Santuko's for my price of $200.00 and some guy came up and saw that I do sharpening work as well, This man watch the transaction for the $200.00 and then asked if I gave a discount for sharpening because he had a whole six knives to sharpen.

I smiled and told him that I am a professional maker & sharpener its the same amount of work for me so, no there isn't any discount on six knives being sharpened but if he wanted to open a account with me and had at least 25 knives a month I would be glad to talk with him about a discount.

He walked with a :what!: look on his face, The next customer was a nice friendly lady that didn't ask about a discount and a few of the batch she had with her were small and on the chinese cheesy side, so I told he I was NOT going to charge her for the small ones.:3:

I don't want to do business when the first word out of there mouth is discount!
My other line I use for folks like the first man is. When I want to do charity work, I sharpen or give knives to the homeless kitchen! Keep in mind that this is in Brentwood or Malibu Ca, These people are fairly well off I would say!:biggrin:
 
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Yup some folks can just make ya shake your head.I don't get the well to do who balk at a Heirloom quality knife and then you have the guy that works his butt off with dirt under his nails and calluses on his hands that lays his cash down like he just got the greatest treasure of his life.
 
i think some customers just want a "Deal". when they don't like the price, i tell them to try Wal-Mart or Big Lots. i will "Deal", but final price is never more than 10% off. i someone threw one of my blades back onto display table, an "accident" would happen within the next minute. with old eyes, bad hearing and bad knees, stuff happens.
scott
 
So, back when I was getting started in the supply business - pretty clueless like the customers you describe above - I called Crucible - the old Crucible. The rep on the other end was Bruce Davita. My question about pricing was naive - probably as offensive as Laurence's guy with six blades. He could have torn me to the ground as an idiot who had no business trying to start a business - but he treated me politely and with respect. He explained price breakpoints and even helped me set up an account. Bruce left Crucible and I'm not sure where he is now, but that level of customer service and respect has had a very lasting effect on me.

I know this is a bit off topic, but *sometimes* that cheapskate will benefit from an 'education'.

Rob!
 
He would have just bought it as far as Im concerned.

Believe me, that was my thought/intent. After he tossed that knife onto the table, at first I was just worried about the knives, but once I composed myself, I went after him, stopped him, and said some things I shouldn't have. He said some things he shouldn't have, and in the end he was told by the show staff to "leave the show". That being what is was, it still left me with 3 damaged knives, all of which went home with me, and cost me another week of time and materials in the shop to repair.
I'm gona stop talking about that one.....makes me angry just rethinking it.

One tatic that I have seen a number of makers use is.... because the major shows often have purveyors, who are looking to buy/consign, and who generally demand 30+% discount if they purchase a knife outright..... the maker(s) will take whatever price they want for a given knife, and mark it 30% higher. That way if a purveyor wants it, they can go the 30% discount, and still get what they want/need out of the knife. If a "normal" show patron comes to the table, the maker will offer a "discount" of XX% to the patron. The maker gets what he/she wants out of the knife, and the patron feels like they got a real bargin.
Personally, I don't like that tactic, because I can see a lot of possible "holes" that could come back to bite a maker by using it..... but I see it done often.

Many patrons at major shows have tactics of their own.....one of those is "the Sunday Prowl". They will wait until around noon on Sunday of a show, and will start making their rounds, knowing that there are some makers who will be desperate to sell something. They will go to a table, and offer some low ball number on a knife. Some makers will jump right on the offer, and others will negotiate, but sooner or later the patron usually finds a maker so desperate to sell something, that the patron gets what they want, at a substaincially reduced price. The issue I have with this is that in the eyes of some patrons, this causes a "blanket effect" in that news travels fast, and then everyone wants to play the game.

Many patrons will also use the tatic of pitting one maker against another.....the individual will come up to the table, look at a knife and say... "I really like this knife, but I'm also looking at another at XXXX's table. Can you do any better on this price?" You can see where that goes. :)

I think the whole key for any knifemaker is to decide what price he/she must have for any given knife, and stick to that. Of course there are always exceptions based on circumstances, but for the most part when a maker takes a "low ball" offer on a knife, they have just created a "hole" for themselves. I don't mind saying that I made the mistake early in my career. I was inexperienced, and at my first major knife show, and sold a knife for 1/3 off what I had marked on it, because I was desperate. At the time I had no idea what I was doing to myself. For the next two years I heard "But XXXXX said you sold him XXXX knife for $XXX! Why can't I have one for that!?" I learned my lesson. :sad:

Of course in the end its up to each individual knifemaker to build their own set of "rules" for selling, but I will say that I think its imperative that those rules be consistent, at least if your intent is to do this long term.
 
I'm glad I found this thread. Good info in here. Ed, your experiences in these things is invaluable. I hate low ball offers but some customers do it more tactfully than others. I like giving a good product at a good price but it's difficult to work with customers that either don't know the value of a maker's work or just don't care because they're more into the hunt. Justifying prices to people that are hunting for a quality product at a price that is close to nothing is a fruitless endeavor. I just tell them my work costs more than they're willing to pay and this may not be the knife for you. I've also been approached by some people using their name or group affiliation asking for freebies and saying that it will lead to more exposure and sales. Did that a couple times. Worked once. Now If you want a prototype you need to commission it and cover my time and materials; I have customers waiting and they don't care who you are or represent. You want it before i complete orders ahead of yours I need something for that.
 
Thanks Ed. Your advice is always gold. Treating a customer with special pricing may feel necessary or even warm and fuzzy at the moment, - but it works out to a slap in the face to all those who respected your price and your worth.

Rob!
 
I had a table at my very first show today. It was a small, first year show in a small community, though surprisingly to me there was a higher traffic flow than I expected. My favorite line of the day was by a gentleman who had given one of my nicer knives a 2nd look. I asked him if he had any questions about it and his reply was, and I quote..."For that price I'm looking for a name like Gerber or something".
I chuckled a bit and replied with, "Sir, your are holding a handmade knife, made in America", and left it with that.

Chris
 
I had a table at my very first show today. It was a small, first year show in a small community, though surprisingly to me there was a higher traffic flow than I expected. My favorite line of the day was by a gentleman who had given one of my nicer knives a 2nd look. I asked him if he had any questions about it and his reply was, and I quote..."For that price I'm looking for a name like Gerber or something".
I chuckled a bit and replied with, "Sir, your are holding a handmade knife, made in America", and left it with that.

Chris

Chris,
In my experience's, you told the man just the right thing. As we have talked about before and Ed and Rob just mentioned. You can always raise your price for your Custom knives. But each time you take less, at a knife show you are digging a hole for yourself you might not ever be able to climb out of!
 
It always happens to me when I have a high dollar bowie or folder on the table.... invariably, someone grabs it up, then gasps when they see the price.

Where the "offense" comes in for me is when that individual literally drops the knife back on the table....I had an instance of that at the Blade Show a few years ago....a guy grabbed up a $2k bowie without asking, then when he saw the price he literally tossed it back on the table....and in the process damaged not only the bowie, but two damascus folders. Suffice to say I was a bit more then "offended". :)

Ed, I'm just curious, were you standing when he did this?
Just thinking he would have to have some serious marbles to do that!
I honestly do not know if I could keep my cool,
if someone did that to me! Its so disrespectful, I would have to make sure THEY KNEW WHAT THEY DID,
NOT MENTION HOW MUCH IT WOULD COST TO FIX IT!!! I doubt they could be held responsible!
It is the perceived notion of the value of a knife! It probably has something to do with the "WalMart mentality",
Where EVERYTHING is disposable and nothing is built to last no more than a few months depending on the product!

You would almost have to think that, "If they are attending the BLADE SHOW,
they would have some sort of knowledge of what we put into a single knife! Seems like there is a stray that walks in from time to time!

I was talking to a friend a while back, that used to do the "Gun and knife" shows around here, he quit doing them, because there was always someone
that was standing there with a brand new Remington 700(ADL) with a brand new Khalie scope on it, total package costs:
Rifle- approx $800
Scope-approx $1400 roughly about $2000 dollars give or take a few bucks, while standing there holding that, they would try to talk him
down on the price of one of his very nice, Hunter's in the (Canadian belt knife style), that would have premium wood and usually CPM steel,
that he had priced at or a little above a $100.00!!! (Although this Show Specials I think were either 1084 or 1095, he had a load of that steel!)
Now that's a deal if I ever seen one, it would usually be his, "Show Special",
as it was his best seller that needed no advertising, his repeat business was huge! That alone PIS....err, I mean ticked him off
so bad, he QUIT doing them! I think that was his last time, he got put in this NEW section for "hand made" items,
which put him in between 2 duck call makers! He could barely talk without someone honking one of them! He was livid!
Tried to move to any other section of the building, informed them he would NEVER BE BACK! I think that ticked him off!
You'd think that at a knife show, someone would have a lot more common sense! I know, I know, common sense isn't so
common any more! Given the value of those knives, you'd think the show officials would have done something!
You know they have to be insured for such a thing, it would go along with protecting merchandise in the case of theft, you'd think anyway.

I still can't get past him throwing it or even tossing it back to the table if you were standing up! You ain't exactly a short
fella, and I KNOW you STAND UP when you talk to customers! I can see maybe the last day of the show and after all the hours
already spent standing, that you'd be past tired of standing, but I still think you'd have to be standing!
Just my thoughts! Rex
 
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I am stunned at the fact some one can be so careless with a hand made piece of sharp art. I dont want to get Ed riled up over this so am going to leave it at that.
Being on a budget I have tried to barter/haggle over things in the past but, since I started making sharp things that resemble knives and keep am edge knife makers prices are one thing I dont try to haggle over.
I am guilty of mentally picking apart a knife but complementing them on what I see as a good thing about it.
At our last gun and knife show met an ol boy who lives a piece before my grand parents on a little town called Broadbent. He is a bit gruff but didnt discourage the questions I had for him.
The walmart mentality is the major factor in the cheapersed buyers. Many in society are on the disposable mindset, its cheap enough to replace in a yr or two.
 
Rex, I was standing, but at that time I was behind the table...and ALMOST threw out my hand to try to catch the knife on its way down....but thankfully caught myself. Yes, it still riles me up when I thing about it, but it just goes to show that NOBODY can fix "Stupid". I'll leave it there, but can totally relate to what you were saying. EVERY year during our hunting season, it happens to me. I'll have somebody drive up to the shop in a brand new 4x4 pickup, with a Sako rifle hanging in the back window, and then have to listen to then whine and fuss about a $400 hunting knife. Its just simply those folks who see a knife as a not so important "accessory". I've often tried to get folks to understand that pulling the trigger on a big game animal is the easy part...once that critter is on the ground, thats when the real work starts, and when you need to bring out the "serious" tools (a good knife).....but most of the time its like trying to teach a pig to fetch...... it wastes your time, and annoys the pig! :)

Walt: You nailed it when you mentioned the "walmart mentality"..... thats the thing that we as makers must constantly fight, or more so, what we have to "re-educate" about.
 
Rex, I was standing, ..... thats the thing that we as makers must constantly fight, or more so, what we have to "re-educate" about.

Ed,
That's amazing! That someone would do that! But I'm even more
befuddled that someone could pull up to your shop, you'd think they
would already know the QUALITY they are getting!
I think it is the place a knife, as a tool, has been given. Its not the "go to"
TOOL, it once was years ago, when day to day LIFE required a good knife!
I think the other part is exactly what you said, the only thing is I thought what I
needed to be doing was educating the public, not re-educating!!!
But that is what we, as a whole, need to be doing, even if its one person
at a time! With the hopes that, that individual will do the same!
It is forums like this, that people stumble onto and accidentally learn
something about The Custom Hand-made Knife!!!
Know thats not enough, Ive often thought it would be a good idea to
have a video at knifemakers tables showing short snipets of what process
they go through to make the knives they make, and they have to keep it fresh
so they can see the knives on the table, BEFORE they were finished products!!
Its the video that they will remember, you can talk and talk, but words do not STICK!!!
PICTURES AND VIDEO! STICK!!!!
Just the way I see it, Rex
 
Good idea on the video! At one time I had a small TV with a VHS built in (dating myself), and would run a video of me forging and building knives. It was a huge draw to the table, and you're absolutely correct.....folks remembered the video far more then they remembered any of the pieces on the table. After that got outdated, I did it on a laptop. I've not done it for several years now, but it is a effective tool.
 
I've thougt about this since the thread got started, debating whether to bring it up.....but I think it will benefit someone. I don't think theres anything in knifemaking that is more offensive to me, then a customer who wants a particular knife, and sends endless emails, texts, and phone calls, and then backs out on the sale. I've had this happen to me a number of times, and after many years of bending over backwards for customers like this, doing everything I can to please them, I finally got fed up. For a while now I have maintained a "customer blacklist". This is a list of indivdiuals who have caused me undo grief either with an order, or especially if an individual has backed out on a sale or order. Simply put, if any of these individuals contact me wanting a knife, I simply refuse the sale. Some might look at this as an insane move, but for those of you who have not experienced it yet, theres nothing more frustrating then wasting a lot of hours with emails, texts, and phone calls, dealing with an individual, then all of a sudden get some lame excuse about having to back out on the deal. Now don't get me wrong, I understand that things happen, and that there are also legit reasons in many cases. The difference is generally pretty easy to spot in communications. For me, I simply do not have the time of inclination to play these "games", and when it happens, that individual goes on the list.
 
You hit the nail on the head Ed ! This is kind of what I was so frustrated about,this is the second time I've delt with this guy.Text and email back and forth,this time it was about a blade that I had finished but hadn't handled up yet,last time he had me design a one off on paper then as I was about to start on it he backed out .He wants heirloom quality at Walmart prices .I should of just ignored him rather then spending valuable time on him.It just kinda pushed the red button for me.I had a snowmachine listed not long ago in the local classifieds and had to deal with all the tire kickers that were not seriously going to buy anyway and I think my patients was just up.
 
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