Why no one knows what a custom knife maker is...

I have to explain to some one nearly every day what I do and what custom knife making is. Tell someone you make coffee mugs, work on hot rod cars, gunsmith, build bird houses, collect butterfly's, anything… and they connect the dots. Tell them you make knives (or sell knife making supplies) their eyes glaze over and you now have to go through the 20 question and answer game. When you finally get done with that, they still don't have it figured out. Anyone not in the knife business can't believe knives can be hand crafted. They think only big knife companies can make knives. It's amazing. Bless their hearts.


I don't have any solid data on how many full time and part time makers there are but we all know it's just not that many. There are more farriers than knife makers. Find out how many farriers there are and we’ll have a good number to start estimating the knife maker head count. My guess (today, and it changes every day) is there are maybe an average of 400 knife makers per state for around 20,000. There is maybe another 400 or so that are very casual makers or that have made a couple knives from kits or files or saw blades. That makes 40,000 knifemakers which isn't many in a country of 300 million. Again, just a kind of a wild guess.


Why isn't there more? Up until the turn of the last century, metallurgy, specifically weapons metallurgy, was a closely guarded secret. You didn't want your enemies to have good knives or swords so you didn't share that knowledge. The only other avenue to advance knife making for was blacksmiths and they weren't telling either. Blacksmiths faded away and you are left with just a few people that have the knowledge. To know a Knifemaker a 100 years ago was even more rare than today. Try and name a knife maker prior to 1950 and you can't, other than the guy that made the Jim Bowie knife and they can't be sure about that. I still can't remember that guys name. You can probably name a few Japanese sword maker but they weren't telling anyone how to do it either.


Go back fifty years to Ron Loveless (and a few others of course) and his completely open approach to sharing his hard earned knowledge. A hand full of guys early into the custom knife making scene changed the entire mind set about sharing knife and sword making knowledge. Today that knowledge sharing is a keystone of knife making and a big part of its success..


If we continue to share with others and grow our community at some point, some day when you tell someone you make knives someone just might say “I've heard of that” or “I know another guy that makes knives” and you get those twenty minutes back…

I have the same response when I tell people I am a knife maker & sharpener! I get a glazed eye look to a lightening bolt look when I've said the sharpening part. Still some look at me with awe, You know how to sharpen a knife? Like they are in the presents of Merlin the magician!

I smile and say I also make knives as well, do you or your spouse like to cook? Great! Not only can we get your knives sharpened up properly but I can show you my handmade culinary knives.

Like bossdog said, it getting better, I've noticed some improvement in the pass 19 years I've been doing this.

As long as we continue to share what was so freely shared with us. It can only get better.

So absolutely true Tracy and Laurence- I had a recent experience with my boss and his family at a restaurant and I told them "I'm into knifemaking"- They stare at you and blink. Then I said, just to try to get them back to earth a little, "oh, it gives me a chance to work with exotic woods" and their eyes deglaze a little, and they continue to stare and say "oh okay". Then you think to yourself, "if I tell them about the benefits of CPM steel right now their eyes will roll back in their head and they will fall on the floor stunned". I think it's just that so few have the tools and know-how to make knives that, like Tracy says, the concept of a "knifemaker" is foreign and like saying you make electricity or atoms or something.

So very true.

And when you show someone a knife you made, they still don't really get it. I show them a knife and tell them, "This is what I do. I make these, by hand, from scratch.................every piece." And I kid you not, they say, "Oh wow! That's really cool! So where do you buy your blades?" or "Where do you buy your guard parts or spacers." or "where do you get the locking parts of your folder".

When I lived in Montana, if you mentioned you make knives to a random stranger, they'd say, "Oh cool. So do I. And my brother does too. And the guy across the street." But 99% of them meant they had taken an old file to a stone bench grinder, then heated up the tang end and shoved into a piece of deer antler. Not really the same thing.

And another aspect of it: On the RARE occasion that you might actually be able to find a tool or part or supply at the local auto, hardware or grocery store, you get this dreaded conversation while browsing:

19 year old employee: "Can I help you find something?"
Me: "Uhhhh.........maybe.......yeah, I guess.....do you have 'such-and-such'?"
Employee: "I'm not sure. No, I don't think so."
Me: "Okay. Thanks."
Employee: "But we do have this and it's pretty much the same thing. (Even though for me, and what I want to do with it, it isn't even close and might as well be a foam pool noodle.)
Me: "No, that won't work for what I need. Thanks anyway."
Employee: "Well, what are you trying to do with it?"
Me: "Ummmm......well.....Ahhhh.......See, I make...........oh, nevermind. Have a nice day." And I walk out.

If you try to explain to them what we do and why we want this product or tool and how we'll be using it in a way that it was NEVER intended before, it just leads back to that glazed over look in the eye that Tracy was talking about. It's just easier to not try to explain.

Pretty much the story of my knifemaking career so far.

I'm no where near your guys level but doing it part time I get the exact same reaction. Most of the people I run around with think it is pretty awesome. Others look at me like I told them I make hand grenades and give them to kids.

John you said it when you made the comment I made this knife from scratch they ask me so where do you buy the blades from? I literally pull pictures up on my phone showing various stages of work.
People really look at me funny when I'm in my drive way with a respirator on with the grinder rolling and sparks flying and they come by walking there dog. I just wave.

I must say it has been one of the most enjoyable things I have picked up.

I've had that same comment before John,"Where do you get your blades?". Then I explain that I made every part and piece of that knife from scratch,then I get that look that tells me that they think I'm a bald face liar.:biggrin:
This is another thing that happens quite often, I'm aproched by someone as I'm getting in or out of my truck at the local hardware store,they have seen my knifemaker lettering on my truck windows and they say," So, your a knifemaker,may I see some knives?". When I start showing my stunningly beautiful,flawlessly executed,perfectly operating,folding knives,they are speechless for a minuet then they say,"I didn't expect to see something like this",then they begin to tell me about other crudely made knives they have seen from other "Custom Knifemakers". And I just stand there and grin and shake my head because I've seen those knives too,and I know that I have just improved the perception of all custom Knifemakers.:biggrin:

This thread kind of leaves me wondering- am I a 'knife maker'? Where do you draw the line? Maybe one reason that few pursue the art is because they feel they could never qualify as a 'knifemaker' in the eyes of the masters of the art. Is the guy who shaped a knife out of a file and to the best of his ability attached an antler handle (mentinoed earlier) not a knifemaker? How about a man who lives in my county that buys good grade blanks, handles, bolsters, guard blanks and then shapes and assembles it all to come up with a pleasing, functional knife that more than meets his buyers approval? At my age, I doubt that I'll live long enough to ever be taken seriously by the masters of the art- and that's okay. But, I've found I really enjoy 'making knives. And, the best part for me is the learning- and the interaction with the helpful,skilled, experienced knifemakers on forums, especially this one. I spent several hours the other day teaching two teenagers how to get started. They left with new knowledge of how to design the knife they desire, a very basic understanding of metal characteristics and how we will attain them, some shop skills they didn't have- and each also left with a profiled knife blank. The same guy who is a little embarrased to share what I produce on here, is probably seen as a master knife guru in their estimation (even though I explain I'm nothing of the sort). I explained to these two young guys before we started that something might happen during the process of building their knife- something might click with them- that tells them, " you really enjoy this!". But, again, that may not happen And, that's okay. But, if they do enjoy it, they will desire to do it again, and again, and again. If they pursue that path, in my eyes, in one sense, they will become knifemakers (green as they may be).
Just as drywalling a bathroom doesn't make one a'drywaller', and pulling your child's tooth doesn't make you a dentist, etc-making one knife probably shouldn't qualify anyone as a knifemaker. But this 'knjifemaker' is having a blast with it when I can get to the shop, and is very thankful to you guys who help me along the path. Keep up the good work!
Bill,

The one I like is,when you tell them you make custom knives, after they recover from that blank stare!

Then I try this analogy with them! Lets say you want a rifle, but you don't want an average rifle, so you contact a gunsmith who will build your custom rifle to your specifications, from scratch. He has to acquire all the parts, and begin to make you that custom rifle a virtual one of a kind!

Well I am that gunsmith, except I build knives, so that makes me a custom knife maker!

Then you got to love the human mind because the conversation usually goes straight from there to the following!!!

"So how much do your knives sell for"????

Well, that depends on what you want. So they quickly describe something, trying to nail you down. And if you go that extra mile, and say well its hard to say, we would have to go over a lot more details but, somewhere in the neighborhood of$200-$300 dollar range depending on what exactly you want!

At this point there eyes have glazed over :what!:and the expression begins to change to, :12: are you crazy! I can go to Wallyworld and buy one for $20.00 bucks.

Not like mine you won't!

Remember me using the custom rifle analogy?? Well you won't have a problem of paying $2K for that custom rifle, because it is exactly what you wanted. Now would you!!

That is the difference with an off the shelf knife and a custom knife! Sometimes that works and sometimes it doesn't!!!!:31:

If I feel they still don't get it, I say well a custom rifle is not for everyone and perhaps a custom knife isn't for you!:les::13:

I used to set up at Gun Shows when I first started making knives. I sold allot of them there as the prices were around $100. When my prices creeped up past the price of most guns at the shows I had to begin developing dialogue to "sell" my work. Some of my customers were "knife people" and educated, the rest I had to prove the performance with pictures of big game and "Quotes" from hunters. Once I hammered one of my knives edge to edge with an elcheapo Pakistan knife and displayed that on my table. My knife blade cut nearly all the way through the piece of junk they sold a couple tables down from me. I also used a freshly heat treated unsharpened Paul Bos heat treated blade and shaved slivers of steel from cheap knives right before their eyes. Sometimes I would shave steel off the pocket knife blades they carried. Some actually got irritated for that one.

When I joined the American Bladesmith Society it was easier to explain until I put my bent knife on the table for display. I bet I explained why my bowie blade was bent 5000 times. Then I had to explain damascus when I started forge welding. Some of the old guys remembered damascus as a replaced steel due to split shotgun barrels. I explained the damascus welding procedures and high carbon steel compared to the old steels used back then another 5000 times. I single handedly educated everybody at every gun show I attended in the entire Pacific Northwest.

The knife shows are a whole different crowd of people. These guys are generally more educated than I am or at least they leave their glazed look at home. They came to the show to see knives and lots of them. Most are excited to be there and have a pocket full of cash their wives don't even know about. This is fun for us makers to talk to them and other makers about our passion. Stop for a burger on the way home and there is the "glazed over" look again. I guess its just a fact of life. I usually tell them I am a blacksmith that specializes on making blades.

Bruce Bump said:

....I explained the damascus welding procedures another 5000 times. I single handedly educated everybody at every gun show I attended in the entire Pacific Northwest.

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If we could just get you to move to Cali next and start educating there (bring that ABS bent knife), in about 80 years with you moving around the country, we should be good to go.

I've mentioned knife making to a couple of guys who then said that they were knifemakers too, those have been the most annoying conversations I've had about the subject. One told me I didn't forge right because I didn't bounce my hammer off the anvil every other swing, and that my 20" forge was too small for making bowie knives...I rarely mention my hobby to people anymore in passing. It's a worse topic than politics for casual conversation, in my book. That's what makes these forums so appealing to me, its almost impossible to have a technical discussion about knife making anywhere else.

I think that the question, "Where do you get the blades?" must be universal, because that seems to be the first question out of someones mouth when I hand them one of my folders. I then, as I'm sure you all do, try to explain the fact that all of the parts are made from raw materials. It's like trying to explain calculus to a three year old. Then you try to explain that those scales are mammoth tooth. "No, really, they are actually made from the tooth from a wooly mammoth that was dug up somewhere in the Siberian Tundra." That's when they think you are really nuts and look at you like you have lobsters crawling out of your ears. I guess it's hard for people to understand that someone can take a hunk of steel and make a knife that is both functional and beautiful. These are probably the same people that think milk comes from the grocery store or hamburger from McDonalds. I think it's the simple fact that they have never been exposed to the idea that man can take something from nature and turn it into something useful. Everything doesn't have to come off the shelf from WalMart. Making tools is what separates us from the animals people! Oh well. At least we have Knife Dogs where we can share our passion for knife making with others who understand. Or maybe, just maybe, we are all crazy and shouldn't be trusted with the sharp objects that we love to produce :les:

Them: "you make that from a piece of metal?"
Me: yes
Them: "How in the world do you do that?"
Me: it's magic
Them: "it's so precise, seriously, what do you use?"
Me: abrasives moving at high speed
Them: "what's that?"
Me: magic
them: "can you put the little teeth in the blade back here close to the handle?"
Me: Serrations?
Them: "yeah"
Me: No
them: "why not?"
Me: that's black magic, I don't mess with black magic.

Have fun with it. For a while I had elves that worked for me, locked in my garage.

N.N said:

Them: "you make that from a piece of metal?"
Me: yes
Them: "How in the world do you do that?"
Me: it's magic
Them: "it's so precise, seriously, what do you use?"
Me: abrasives moving at high speed
Them: "what's that?"
Me: magic
them: "can you put the little teeth in the blade back here close to the handle?"
Me: Serrations?
Them: "yeah"
Me: No
them: "why not?"
Me: that's black magic, I don't mess with black magic.

Have fun with it. For a while I had elves that worked for me, locked in my garage.

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:biggrin: Hee,hee,that's funny.:biggrin:

Bill Hubbell said:

This thread kind of leaves me wondering- am I a 'knife maker'? Where do you draw the line? ...

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That's a good question! At one point, I was a guy who made a few knives, from a file, on a stone grinder... Now, I AM a knife maker. Not really sure when that transition happened, although my wife would argue that happened $38,000.00 ago!

For me, a custom knife maker is defined by their mentality. It's how you approach the subject. If you care about the choice of steel, about the heat treat, about the handle material and fittings, and about the aesthetics of the finished piece. If you care about the client being happy with the fit and finish and durability of the knife. If you are always trying to learn to improve your grinding, finishing, polishing. To improve leather work, or engraving and inlay, and explore new materials. It's this mentality that makes a custom maker.

As far as why no one knows what a custom maker is, I'm not sure. Everyone seems to know what a custom car, or boat, or bike, or gun is. But, my guess is more people are starting to learn. The internet and forums allow people to learn from each other, and more people are exposed to high end everything. This is only going to help us. Maybe, some day, we'll stop getting the "You really made that?", "Where did you get your blade?" questions...

Dan

Every once in a while at shows I'll have someone come up to the table, take a good look around, maybe pick up a piece or two, then look at me and ask "who does your chrome plating"? that one always gets me by surprise. the first couple times I heard it I was kind of taken back but over the years you realize not everybody is up on custom knives so I just explain those aren't plated, that's mirror polished stainless.

Hey Boss I am doing my part here in Cali. And getting the blank stare when I say they start at $200! I carry a Spyderco Police model sometimes and I tell them "this knife is off the shelf and they are almost two bills. Custom is Custom!

N.N said:

Have fun with it. For a while I had elves that worked for me, locked in my garage.

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I still do!

This has got to be the best thread I have read in a week or more. and this post, had me crackin up!!! To funny!!!

Blessings
Randy

The problem is not with the word "knife", its with the word "custom".

Custom has come to mean, "added junk for the sake of cool" or "changed from the original". Most people don't see knives as complicated enough to do that. They see a piece of low tech metal used to "cut stuff" and don't understand that all edges are not created equal. We see it a little different.

Them: someone said you makes knives.
Me: yep
Them: what kind?
Me: any kind, hunting knives, folding knives, kitchen knives
Them: has any of them been used in a knife fight?
Me: if any were they must have lost because I haven't heard of any.
Them: How did you decide to do that?
Me: I was too cheap to pay for a good one.
Them: how do you make the knives?
Me: first buy about $10,000 in tools
Them: that would buy a lot of knives
Me: Yeah, I figured that out a while ago myself.
Them: huh…
Me: yeah