Ferric chloride how do I mix it

EdCaffreyMS said:

Maybe it's just me, but I would never recommend using cold blue.....I have never seen it used on anything, and it come out with what I consider an acceptable finish.....light and dark spots, smeared looking, blotchy.......for a lack of a better way to say, it just looks very unprofessional to me.

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I could not agree with this more. I have tried EVERYTHING to get a nice even finish with cold blue and have failed miserably. I can get a nice finish...............but it wipes right off if you oil or rusts if you don't. I have followed the directions on the bottle exactly. I have tried using it with smooth polished finishes, rough finishes, different metals. I tried it cold. I tried applying it to a hot part that someone recommended. I called Birchwood Casey and talked to their shop guys and they led me back to, "Use it exactly like the bottle says." Which I tried again and failed. Again the blue/black either wipes right off or rusts. I've let it sit in wd-40 for two days. I've tried spraying it with wd-40 and let it air dry. I've tried using 5 different kinds of gun oil. Nothing will preserve the blue/black finish I'm after.

It has it's place in my shop but never as a final finish......on anything.

If someone has gotten a good, EVEN and durable finish with cold blue I'd like to hear how. Even better......I'd like to see it.

If you search the forum or the web there is a blade maker who uses 2 or 3 chunks of ferric to a gal of warm water.

A man I know here in town that was born in Damascus, Syria recently told me as a youngster he would watch some of the sword makers and they used Coke/Pepsi as a Etchant.
I found regular Pepsi on sale for .99 cents for a 2 liter bottle at the local CVS pharmacy when I was walking down an isle yesterday.
On my next carbon Damascus knife I make I'm gonna give it a try. I wonder if it will work as a weed killer when I'm done with it?:les:

SHOKR said:

I recently wanted to get FC but only found the solid FC so I got it just in case, was real cheap
problem is I don't know how to mix it (that I can figure out from any source online probably) but the real issue if mix it till saturation, is that what i dilute 3:1 or 4:1 or whatever ratio?
to rephrase, the PCB most ppl are using, is saturated or actually diluted?

thanks

Edit: walle e, i've tried several etching and if all you want to do is eliminate teh shine vinegar or coca cola could do the job, they are slow but as mentioned if you warm them they are much faster (but would just turn the blade to dark/dull gray not black)
my experience with FC is very limited, finished etching two blades yesterday, one was k100 it turned almost black but still had some sorta of shine to it (not sure how yet) and the other was 5155 and I did three layers but in the last one i forgot it inside for a bit and it turned really dark gray (no shine)

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Shokr,
One to one seems to be what I have read on a couple of these seller ads..
Go to Ebay or any other place on line where they sell Ferric Chloride.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odk...5573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.XFerric+Cloride+&

Thanks Laurence, will check the link

Btw i would not recommend cola for damascus

When i tried it the tip of the knife was slightly darker near the tip, which was cool fr the knife but not for damascus i think
More importantly when the bubbles form on the blade the steel got microscopic holes, i think the reaction at those places was much more active than other places

I woukd suggest you try before the actual knife. Or maybe let the cola sit for a while till all the soda is gone

If you wan to try something that is as close to hot blue as you can get. Go Brownell's catalog and get the Blue Wonder. If you follow the instructions it will work every time. Use a heat gun or hair dryer to make it faster.
This is a good product for sure.
I buy the Ferric Chloride in a powder and mix it 4 tablespoons to a quart of distilled water. It works great. Make sure you wash your blades with a good soap, I use Dawn, then rinse and put in the F C let it sit for 2 minutes and take a look. I like to rinse mine again and then swirl it around in the liquid for about a minute and then rinse and spray with windex ( make sure you have the one with ammonia) then rinse again. I put it in an oven for 5 minutes at 125 degrees to really get it dry down in the etchings then oil with a Teflon lubricant. This works great for us and we are doing about 40 blades a week with it.

I needed to edit this to add one simple fact.

If you use steel wool to clean your blade the steel wool breaks down and get in the Damascus etching. It will rust later and it is hard to wash out. Try the stainless wool it will be much better. If you use the brass wool it won't rust of course but it will leave the brass color in the etching.

So realisticly there is not a way to get a flat black on a blade other than using the chem that you boil then let the blade soak for a bit? I cant remember the name for it.

wall e said:

So realisticly there is not a way to get a flat black on a blade other than using the chem that you boil then let the blade soak for a bit? I cant remember the name for it.

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I think that process is called "Parkerizing. Here is the link to a great video on that process. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyMrhkQ4zj0 I have purchased these chemicals on ebay and plan to try this process in the next week or so. If I don't blow myself up I'll let you know how it went,

Wallace

Wallace thats the solution I wss thinking of. Parkerizing I just watched the video again after I posted my last question. Lol I doubt you would blow yourself up but, hey anythings possible. Just remember chems into water and keep an eye on the steel wool. Once the sacrificial wool is gone the solution corrodes the knife. Another maker posted a vid or was in the comments for this one.

wmhammond said:

I think that process is called "Parkerizing. Here is the link to a great video on that process. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyMrhkQ4zj0

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Both of the knives below were coated with the info from that exact video. I couldn't find the exact cleaner he was using for the acid, but found some stuff called Pink Glo that has the same ingredients.

I have one those as my "test" knife, and the coating is holding up fairly well. It seems to wear off any hard corner, but the flats still look good. On these O1 tool steel blades, with this coating and some 3-n-1 oil, no rust at all. Same guy, Sugar Creek Forge, has some other good videos for beginners too.

Good copy over. Am going to try the ferric chloride in a 3 to1 ratio here this week on a D2 planer knife. I hope it turns a nice flat or matte black/grey. We shall see

wall e said:

Good copy over.

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???

Sorry, military radio coms moment. 10-4 loud and clear. Lol I understood what you were saying chevytrucking.

J. Doyle said:

I could not agree with this more. I have tried EVERYTHING to get a nice even finish with cold blue and have failed miserably. I can get a nice finish...............but it wipes right off if you oil or rusts if you don't. I have followed the directions on the bottle exactly. I have tried using it with smooth polished finishes, rough finishes, different metals. I tried it cold. I tried applying it to a hot part that someone recommended. I called Birchwood Casey and talked to their shop guys and they led me back to, "Use it exactly like the bottle says." Which I tried again and failed. Again the blue/black either wipes right off or rusts. I've let it sit in wd-40 for two days. I've tried spraying it with wd-40 and let it air dry. I've tried using 5 different kinds of gun oil. Nothing will preserve the blue/black finish I'm after.

It has it's place in my shop but never as a final finish......on anything.

If someone has gotten a good, EVEN and durable finish with cold blue I'd like to hear how. Even better......I'd like to see it.

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I wouldn't say the ones I've done came out with what I would call "perfection", but they haven't looked bad either. I first stone wash the finish, clean the blade VERY well with acetone using gloves, let it dry, apply the cold blue (super blue works better than perma blue) quickly and keep wiping it down with a leather dye dobber, let it sit for a few minutes, take it to the sink and run it under water lightly scrubbing with steel wool to even the finish, dry it and repeat 3 or 4 times, mineral oil it up and let it sit for a few days. after wiping off the oil I wax it up. I've never had one rust. I keep this one in a kydex sheath [and with a properly made sheath] never had the finish rub off.

Ed's mention of the uneven finish I can see it certain light, but kinda like a hologram. I know it's not the greatest solution, but it's worked pretty well for me. I've found that surface imperfections are seen easier and the best way to get a flat even finish are to sand blast it first.

two different light sources. To see the wavyness, it really has to be in the right light..or under lights with a camera. Any normal take a look at this and you'll see the first pic. I don't think it looks that bad does it? If it does, please tell me what you think. An outside opinion from someone else's eyes would be appreciated.

How often do you guys replace the diluted ferric chloride solution? I've had some for a few months and I'm about to do another damascus etch. Should I get all new solutions or freshen it up with some distilled water or vinegar?


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N.N. I like the look of the first one. I think there are a few light spots around the makers mark?

N.N said:

I don't think it looks that bad does it? If it does, please tell me what you think. An outside opinion from someone else's eyes would be appreciated.
View attachment 51412View attachment 51413

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It is hard to tell from the pics the true uniformity of the finish. I should mention first that I don't use cold blue for my blades as I think there are better finishes to darken a blade. I've tried the cold blue on guards, spacers and fittings. I think what I'm seeing in the pictures is the same type of thing I was getting on my guards. It does look a little too uneven for my tastes.

Whether it looks bad or not depends on the knife, it's purpose and if the maker and buyer are happy with it. I am extremely fussy about my finishes and want them perfectly even if possible. The cold blue method is one that just doesn't work for me. One problem I have with the method you mentioned, for my knives, is the step where you scrub with steel wool. Scrubbing my blades or guards/fittings with steel wool would scratch the finish I already meticulously applied to them. So I don't scrub down anything finished with steel wool anyway.

I can agree that if you're looking for perfection, it isn't the way to go as I already mentioned. I'm not lying to myself that it's supurb, but in any normal light as demonstrated by the first pic, you can't really see any imperfections. The second pic was under massive light, mainly the sun on a bright day. I'm ok with it for my users that are going to get beat up anyway.

The finish for the most part is even, however, like mentioned in the right light, there are darker and less darker spots. I've thought about buying enough super blue to fill a jug. I wonder how dunking the steel would work compaired to brushing or rubing it on. I think that's were most of the uneven finish comes from. Kind of like dying leather with a dobber.

Yeah, I agree. That'd be the way to go. I've done that with guards and spacers and it does give a very even jet black finish. my problem then was keeping it that way. It seems to wipe right off.

J. Doyle said:

It seems to wipe right off.

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The very first knife I blued, rubbed on the kydex sheath (close to the first sheath as well, before I figured out how to do it better) when drawing and re-sheathing the knife. That rubbing action did remove some of the blue. However, with the following knifes, It hasn't hurt the finish at all.

I've mounted a kydex sheath on a drop leg panel for that knife above and carried it, played with it tested it and so far there are no signs of the blue wearing off. I don't know what I did different between the first few and these last ones, but they're holding up.