Home stabaliztion questions

C Craft

C Craft

Well-Known Member
So I recently posted I was looking for a Elk antler large enough to get some slabs out of for a knife I was working on. To my surprise I was gifted a piece of Elk antler by another maker, franklin to be exact.


So now I have the antler in hand and realize Elk is even more pithy in the center than say deer antler. So I am thinking I have always wanted to try some home stabilization. So after some questions about the "how to" of home stabilization. I realize there are some new questions popping up in my mind that pertain to how to with Elk antler stabilization!! So the following are the questions that have popped up in my mind. Before I get started I figure I need to learn some more info on these particular areas! The actual question is in blue the other is an explanation to what I am asking or why! I failed to mention this in case it may make a difference I will be using Cactus Juice to do the stabilization process!

1. After you have left the piece long enough to be stabilized in the vacuum chamber. What about the drying???? Do you hang it, do you lay it down, do you introduce heat or air, and how long for drying time is enough??? I guess that question applies to wood as well, I really never thought of what to do with the piece once you pull it from the stabilization chamber!!!! :les:

2. What about the outside of an Elk antler, meaning this! I have seen blocks of wood stabilized they seem to have a layer of the stabilization material rising above the block itself. With wood that means you sand back down to the wood, (I get that)!!
But with say Elk antler you don't want to sand the exterior of the antler obviously. So how do you handle the excess material on the surface of an antler??? Do you wipe the exterior with something to get rid of the excess material and if so, wipe it with what??? Will one wiping get rid of it or is this something you need to re-do during the drying process?

3. This Elk antler is too be split into two pieces to get the slabs I need for the knife handle. So is it better too leave it whole until after being stabilized or is their an advantage to splitting it before it is stabilized????

4. Should I be concerned that like wood there might be some warpage during the drying process of the Elk antler! I have a block of wood that has been stabilized and there appears to be some slight warpage/twisting of one end. It is not a lot. It may be able to be cut out or at the very least ground flat again. So know I am wondering if antler has that problem! I know if heated in boiling water of oil an antler can be bent. So is this a concern about warpage/twisting with antler????

OK that is pretty much all the questions I have for now and would appreciate anyone who has knowledge in this area chiming in and let me know whether any of this is a real concern when stabilizing antler!
 
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Disclaimer: I am no expert. However, it seems to me that the issue with antler in particular is the pithy center. While pithy centers are good in Twinkies they are not good on knife handles. I have had good experience with simply removing the pith and replacing the void with marine grade epoxy putty. As for the stabilization process, here is a very good video which will address most of your questions at least for wood. Perhaps much of that can be adapted for antler?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qo89fYKqcjU
 
Clifton,

Please see my answers to your questions below in red!

C Craft said:
So I recently posted I was looking for a Elk antler large enough to get some slabs out of for a knife I was working on. To my surprise I was gifted a piece of Elk antler by another maker, franklin to be exact.


So now I have the antler in hand and realize Elk is even more pithy in the center than say deer antler. So I am thinking I have always wanted to try some home stabilization. So after some questions about the "how to" of home stabilization. I realize there are some new questions popping up in my mind that pertain to how to with Elk antler stabilization!! So the following are the questions that have popped up in my mind. Before I get started I figure I need to learn some more info on these particular areas! The actual question is in blue the other is an explanation to what I am asking or why! I failed to mention this in case it may make a difference I will be using Cactus Juice to do the stabilization process! Thank you for that!

1. After you have left the piece long enough to be stabilized in the vacuum chamber. What about the drying???? Do you hang it, do you lay it down, do you introduce heat or air, and how long for drying time is enough??? I guess that question applies to wood as well, I really never thought of what to do with the piece once you pull it from the stabilization chamber!!!! :les:

Just a little nomenclature correction here for what it is worth...Cactus Juice does not dry. It polymerizes. Just like the epoxy you probably use. If you were to take part A of epoxy and not add something to make it cure (the hardener), it will never cure. Cactus Juice is basically the same way except that the part that makes it cure is heat and more specifically heat at 200° F for the complete mass you are curing. Without the heat, it will never cure. As for how long to heat it...that is a million dollar question! There is no set time. The material you are stabilizing has to reach 200° through and through before the polymerization begins. Then it only takes 10 minutes or so. The unknown variable is how long is it going to take to get to 200° F to the core of your material. Typically, on most knife size material, that is somewhere between 1 and 2 hours. The best practice is to check it after 1.5 hours or so and if you see cured Cactus Juice, it is done. If you see liquid, let it go for another hour. Or, you can do it lazy man style like I like to do and that is to put it in the oven before I go to bed and take it out in the morning. There is no such thing as leaving it too long. Once Cactus Juice cures, it is heat resistant to 400° F. BTW, the best thing to cure you blanks with is a cheap toaster oven.

2. What about the outside of an Elk antler, meaning this! I have seen blocks of wood stabilized they seem to have a layer of the stabilization material rising above the block itself. With wood that means you sand back down to the wood, (I get that)!!
But with say Elk antler you don't want to sand the exterior of the antler obviously. So how do you handle the excess material on the surface of an antler??? Do you wipe the exterior with something to get rid of the excess material and if so, wipe it with what??? Will one wiping get rid of it or is this something you need to re-do during the drying process?

When Cactus Juice, like any other resin, is heated, the viscosity of the resin goes down. This causes some bleed out. We have to go to 200° F to get it to cure but anything above that is wasting energy and causing more bleed out. Hotter will not help anything and just causes more bleed out. For wood, most folks wrap the blanks in foil to contain the mess and keep the bleed out on the surface. With antler where you plan to keep the "bark", you don't want that so you would simply cure it without the foil. Many stand their pieces on end in the oven (over a drip pan of course) so that any bleed out will drip away. After the blanks have cured, if you have cured Juice on the outside, you are going to have to try to scrape or pick it off. There are no known solvents for cured Cactus Juice!

3. This Elk antler is too be split into two pieces to get the slabs I need for the knife handle. So is it better too leave it whole until after being stabilized or is their an advantage to splitting it before it is stabilized????

Six of one, half a dozen of the other. I can't thank of any benefit to either way. You might have a reduction in vacuum time if it is split first but otherwise, that is the only maybe benefit I can see. Penetration will not be affected.

4. Should I be concerned that like wood there might be some warpage during the drying process of the Elk antler! I have a block of wood that has been stabilized and there appears to be some slight warpage/twisting of one end. It is not a lot. It may be able to be cut out or at the very least ground flat again. So know I am wondering if antler has that problem! I know if heated in boiling water of oil an antler can be bent. So is this a concern about warpage/twisting with antler????

Warpage is caused by material gaining or loosing moisture. If you follow my recommendations and dry your material to 0% before you stabilize the blanks, any movement that is going to occur will occur before you impregnate them. If they warp too much, you can decide if you want to do them or not. Most of the warpage you see on stabilized material after the fact is because forks took a short cut and did not bother to dry their material to 0% as I HIGHLY recommend. Not only does drying it properly keep movement from occurring when you cure the blanks, it will also allow for a much better stabilized blank since there will not be any moisture in the material taking up space that could have been filled with Juice. The easiest way to dry your material to 0% is to place your blanks in an oven at 215° F for 24 hours, then take it out and immediately place in a ziplock bag and seal it up. Allow it to cool down in the bag so it does not pick up moisture as it cools. Also, don't be fooled into thinking that your material is already dry unless you dry it this way. Even if a piece of wood has been in your barn for 100 years, it still has moisture in it based in the humidity in your area. In most parts of the country other than the desert areas, that moisture content is typically between 10-14%! You will only get this out with artificial drying in an oven as above.

OK that is pretty much all the questions I have for now and would appreciate anyone who has knowledge in this area chiming in and let me know whether any of this is a real concern when stabilizing antler!
Click to expand...

I hope this helps some! If you still have questions, I am always happy to help any way I can!
 
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A question I have is How can you tell if your antler is dry? Could a wood moisture meter work on antler?
 
Brad, If you follow my recommendations of the oven at 215°F for 24 hours, it will be dry. Forget your moisture meter, even for wood. There is not a moisture meter out there, at least that an average guy can afford, that will measure lower than 6% accurately. Even then, most folks who have moisture meters do not use them right anyway! I get it all the time with customers telling me their meter said the piece was 3%. First I ask them if they applied the correction factor from the table in their owner's manual and they have no idea what i am talking about.

Moisture meters measure resistance to electrical current and are factory calibrated to Douglas Fir if I remember correctly. Different species of wood have different specific gravities which all affect the electrical resistance. As a result, the meter makers provide a correction chart of various common species. You take your reading and then apply the correction factor. After that, you also apply a correction factor based on temp since each is calibrated to 72° F! Of course no one ever knows about the temp factor. In the end, it all really does not matter what the meter reads because, like I said above, your are not going to get any kind of reading below 6% that has any level of credibility. Heck, I have a $400 moisture meter and even the manual in it says it is not accurate below 6%

That said, if you have not artificially dried your material and kept it dry, it will never be dry. Here in Central Texas, it will be around 12%. Even in Arizona in the desert it will be around 3%. Then, even if you do dry it in the oven as recommended, if you do not keep it sealed up, within a day or so, it will be right back to where it was before!
 
Curtis, I really appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions and in such detail. I am about to make a home trial of the Cactus Juice and I want to give myself the best shot at getting it right. I definitely understand what you are talking about with the moisture in the air because there is almost always a high humidity here in NW Florida, in fact the days that we don't have a high humidty, are the odd ball but enjoyable days!:biggrin:

Thanks for hooking me up with the proper terminology and then explaining why it works that way. I now have some ideas of where to go with this, and with your info have a shot of getting it right!

I went back and re-read the post from Curtis again and I don't think you could ask for a more concise explanation as "how to" and get it right! Many thanks Curtis, "you the man"!
 
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As mentioned before I just hollow out the pithy marrow like center and fill with epoxy but mine are whole antler sections. Hidden tang style knives.
 
About the sizes of the pieces to be stabilized... For example, I have a 4 x 4 x4" piece of wood that I would like to use as scales. Would it be better for me to cut the wood into scale sized pieces first, or stabilize the large piece as a whole. I know the big piece will take longer to vacuum, but is that the only difference? If proper procedures are followed, will the results be the same as far as penetration goes?
 
Smithy, The ONLY difference might be the time pulling vacuum and the amount of time soaking. When I teach classes, I always tell folks that if you bring me a telephone pole and a large enough vacuum chamber, I can stabilize it and get complete penetration! A 4x4x4 piece actually should not take longer than a 1x1x4 piece assuming the grain is runing the length of the blank and not cross cut. The majority of the air is going to follow the path of least resistance which is the same path the water took when the tree was alive which is with the grain.
 
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