Help needed forging steel and copper?

Kampman Knives

Well-Known Member
Hey there,
I have a metallurgical question because i'm trying to forge a knife with copper pieces in the back.
Sorry for my English cause i am from the Netherlands;)
I know how to work with Mokume Gane but i have no experience with (red) copper and steel.
The temperature differences makes forging copper run away because it liquefies earlier and gets to hot when the steel is at the right temperature toi fort (and dangerous to forge), unless i forge the steel (and copper) at a lower temperature, but then again you get problems with adhesion.
A second option is to weld copper in the back of a knife, both of which i expect it's doable so the question is:
Once the copper is stuck in the steel, how can i heat the blade to harden without the copper liquefies and runs out because the steel requires a higher temperature to harden?
Personally i thought to protect it against high temperatures by covering it with a thick clay layer (yaki ire) at the back of the blade where the copper is and it should work it in theory??
Is there anyone who has experience in forging/welding copper/bronze with steel and then harden it?
I only have simple tools at my studio and work with a coal fire, anvil an hammers;)
Thanx Igor
 
Check out the works of Ariel Salaverria at AES custom knives. I have seen some of his knives that incorporated brass into the steel and I know he is actively experimenting with copper accents as well. Good luck.
 
I have watched a maker that was a friend of mine and now gone do this once,

He did ALL of the work on the blade first, Then he annealed the copper many times so he could cold work the copper/Mukume into his pattern on the blade.
 
I have watched a maker that was a friend of mine and now gone do this once,

He did ALL of the work on the blade first, Then he annealed the copper many times so he could cold work the copper/Mukume into his pattern on the blade.

Thanx rhinoknives,
So if i get it you mean he cold worked the copper after he quenched the knife, how can you get the copper adhese to the steel than?
And if he didn't quenched the knife how did he harden the blade after getting the copper in?
 
It was a Japanese family Crest he cold worked the copper into and it was intricate enough to hold the copper. It was the last thing on the blade he did.
 
Someone told me it's possible to hard solder the copper after hardening wile the cutting site of the blade hang in the water so it didn't get to hot and soft...
 
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