Kirinite MOP Dagger

I have herd a WIDE variety of opinions regarding your choices and your finished product.

One method of hand sanding I have seen used is making a sanding block with the 8" or 10"? Radius of your wheel to match the hollow grind if that helps you any? "I do Full Flats"

Second, You can always make another knife later with MOP or whatever the heck you want and I know you learned a lot doing all of the work needed to make a handle like that with the domed pins etc and is a BiT&# to work and very expensive too, so I am sure you have better skills now for your next one.

I personally have sold MANY knives with those ugly dyed GREEN maple handles!

Here is a fast pic of two I have now and the larger Chef knife was ordered with that UGLY green handle and will be picked up tomorrow and the Santoku with the other UGLY green/blue handle was built for inventory. :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

I have found that letting the customer decide what kind of material and color is the best way to go go for my sales.

Some won't buy MOP anymore and if you had ever see how the harvest the stuff from the reefs you may not be so fast to buy it anymore yourself. I was in the Philippines and saw how they do it.

One of the ways they harvest MOP is they drop anchors off of the back of power boats and have them drag across the reef at low tide destroying the coral reef and most everything else and then have kids walk & swim behind the boats with bags picking up the shells. Its right up there with Grenade fishing.

OK! Its time for my medication!:lol:

Mark,
You are doing great and just keep doing it!!!

Great job overall!

Bill

Second, You can always make another knife later with MOP or whatever the heck you want and I know you learned a lot doing all of the work needed to make a handle like that with the domed pins etc and is a BiT&# to work and very expensive too, so I am sure you have better skills now for your next one.

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I was thinking the same thing myself, this piece was to learn the skills and complexities of the design without accidentally destroying $200 worth of handle material in the process, which strikes me as both admirable and rational... use musk ox or pearl on the next one, you're ready now!

rhinoknives said:

I have herd a WIDE variety of opinions regarding your choices and your finished product.

One method of hand sanding I have seen used is making a sanding block with the 8" or 10"? Radius of your wheel to match the hollow grind if that helps you any? "I do Full Flats"

Second, You can always make another knife later with MOP or whatever the heck you want and I know you learned a lot doing all of the work needed to make a handle like that with the domed pins etc and is a BiT&# to work and very expensive too, so I am sure you have better skills now for your next one.

I personally have sold MANY knives with those ugly dyed GREEN maple handles!

View attachment 46651 Here is a fast pic of two I have now and the larger Chef knife was ordered with that UGLY green handle and will be picked up tomorrow and the Santoku with the other UGLY green/blue handle was built for inventory. :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

I have found that letting the customer decide what kind of material and color is the best way to go go for my sales.

Some won't buy MOP anymore and if you had ever see how the harvest the stuff from the reefs you may not be so fast to buy it anymore yourself. I was in the Philippines and saw how they do it.

One of the ways they harvest MOP is they drop anchors off of the back of power boats and have them drag across the reef at low tide destroying the coral reef and most everything else and then have kids walk & swim behind the boats with bags picking up the shells. Its right up there with Grenade fishing.

OK! Its time for my medication!:lol:

Mark,
You are doing great and just keep doing it!!!

Click to expand...

Laurence, just to be clear (though I think I've been pretty clear on this), I want to make a couple points:

1. Mark's work here is fantastic. He has real skills and real potential to sell HIGH end knives to prominent collectors of high end knives, if he so desires to take that path.

2. I totally understand that this was a practice run and also, evidently, showing off kirinite. Nothing wrong with that at all. I practice things on less expensive materials all the time.

3. Love them, hate them or be indifferent to them, but fake pearl, fake ivory, fake dyed woods, fake stag, etc... will never be popular with the overwhelming VAST majority of collectors. These guys that pay TOP dollar for exquisite knives know their stuff and by and large abhor these materials.

4. Anyone that has any intention of selling knives wants to make money and they want to make the most money they can and turn out the best knives they can with the best materials. I cannot tell you how many times I've heard collectors say that they loved a certain knife but the handle material was a deal breaker (either because of low quality wood, fake stuff or whatever)

5. I already stated that there is a buyer out there for EVERY knife. There may only be one, but there is one, somewhere.

Keep in mind that this was only my advice to Mark if he wants to sell knives to collectors. It's something he, and anyone else that wants to sell high end knives to collectors, should keep in mind. I have no idea what Mark's business plans are. I never suggested that he tear the handle off this or anything like that. Rather, I offered encouragement to make another one (I suggested blackwood, by the way, not real mother of pearl, blackwood is not expensive by any means but it is durable, stable, easy to work and CLASSY and is loved by most collectors) and tweak a few things and he would have a knife that serious collectors would pay serious money for.

I encourage anyone to check out the two 'other' forums where the largest pool of the BEST makers in the world and the most prominent collectors in the world regularly post. Ask their opinions there, do a poll and see what kind of responses you get about these materials. Anyone that wants to make money selling knives needs to know what the collectors are after. It could be the difference between having 5 people rush to your table the minute the doors open to try to buy a certain knife or taking a knife home and sitting on it for 6 months until you finally find that one buyer.

Anyone that has no intention of ever trying to elevate their knives to the point where they break into that circle of high end collectors, please totally disregard all of my posts on this subject.

I don't think John was trying to make light of anyone's work, merely pointing out what his experience has been. Advice is just that advice, nobody has to follow any of it. Personally I value advice that is more that "Great knife" (I can be accused of saying that a lot). I have found that making a knife is only half the battle the other half is trying to figure out what people want to buy.

Since I'm so far away from making "Collector quality" knives I don't offer advice on handle material.

John,
RELAX :biggrin: I thought my Big grins and time to take my meds comment would let you know that I was just having a little fun!
I agree that the top makers that sell big big money knives generally use MOP, Stag, Ancient ivory and unfortunately to me elephant ivory and the elephants.

It just stuck me as ironic about the Green Maple since I have had great sales of it on my custom orders lately.
Granted I make culinary knives and that can be a different market, but there is more cross over everyday.

You may have noticed that I have been among the first to post on some of your threads showing your latest FINE work and I admire your craftsmanship and your material choices.

Knife making is my livelyhood, but at the same time i am certainly not even close to being one of the most prolific or highest paid per knife maker by any means and there is always room for improvement, but the one thing that has worked for me and I try to impart to newer makers is.

Dare to be different, find your own style and material combos and you can find your niche market that you enjoy building for.

I apologize if my comments were percieved to be insultive, or anything negative about your excellent talents or choices to you personally or any other maker,for that matter.

We're good Laurence.

I get a little wordy sometimes when what I'm trying to say is pretty simple. It's hard for me to critique because I so DO NOT want to offend or discourage anyone.

I picked up the light hearted nature of your post just fine. I was not offended by what you wrote, as you were just relating your experiences. We're good as far as I'm concerned. I probably worded my last post poorly too.

I make knives full time as my only source of income also. We all know what a tough way this is to make a living. Ultimately, I want to sell high end knives and chase those prominent collectors and believe me, I've only barely scratched the surface in beginning to figure out what they like.

I am certainly no expert.

J. Doyle said:

We're good Laurence.

I get a little wordy sometimes when what I'm trying to say is pretty simple. It's hard for me to critique because I so DO NOT want to offend or discourage anyone.

I picked up the light hearted nature of your post just fine. I was not offended by what you wrote, as you were just relating your experiences. We're good as far as I'm concerned. I probably worded my last post poorly too.

I make knives full time as my only source of income also. We all know what a tough way this is to make a living. Ultimately, I want to sell high end knives and chase those prominent collectors and believe me, I've only barely scratched the surface in beginning to figure out what they like.

I am certainly no expert.

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I certainly agree that it pays to sell to the folks that want the best! Bob Kramer getting 3 large plus a knife certainly has help me get $400.00 to $1000.00 for my larger culinary knives and its a moving target we are all after as well.
The Tacticool group of buyers are getting a bit older and their influences can be seen on most of the knife market in blade thickness.

I am doing some research to make a new pattern of a camp/Utility knife and took out one from my collection that was carried and used to survive by a US airman that was shot down in the Alaska islands near Kiska during WWII.

Its a RH Pal36 with a 6 1/2" blade that's just a tad over 1/8" thick at the spine. With the current thickness craze of many fixed blades survival knives and even folders that must be able to be "Battoned" on the spine,
Its a Miracle that any of our service men made it though the war with this knife or a K-bar for that matter?:lol:



There is always more to learn and always new things to try to adjust for the market.

John,
One thing you are correct about is that $$ collectors usually want materials that the average joe can't afford and materials that have had an air of status through time.

Thanks All for your comments very helpful, I started the nickel silver sheath hopefully it'll go a little faster.

Mark,

Fantastic knife.

I agree that the blade should be more highly finished.

A whole career could be based on variations of that knife.

You have an obvious talent for that "type" of handle, cultivate it and you'll go far.

Greg

Mark I like it, not going to even get into the other stuff mentioned by others. What really stands out to me is the time and effort put into the knife and the symmetry of the piece. The quality of the workmanship gives you the ability to make that step up into what ever you want to do!

I do have a question you, mentioned the domed pins. They appear to have a domed washer under the pin. How the heck did you do that?????

Is that something store bought, or is that something you accomplished by your own design? In the pics it appears we are looking at one side of the handle only!

Does the other side look like this side with the domed pins and washer underneath. I don't want you to divulge a trade secret but that detail caught my eye and I have been trying to figure out it what I think I am seeing is what I am seeing and if so how was it accomplished!:les:

All and all the piece shows great attention to detail from the guard to the ferule behind it as well as the shield and what appears to be etching accomplished with the X-ing on the side of the tang and as well as the heel of the dagger. I am not a collector and I don't build pieces for that purpose! Partly because I don't feel my work is up too that quality yet and I want someone to use one of my knives. To me that is the biggest compliment anyone can give me! Keep up the good work Mark and I feel like your going to be one of those I can say I knew him back when...........................!!!

Here is a couple of tutorials on the domed pins:
Pictures of the other side and tools used.
Thanks for your questions and comments.

http://www.americanbladesmith.com/i...c/698-domed-heads/page__hl__domed pin washers
http://www.culverart.com/Pin dome making.pdf


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G. Shahan said:

A whole career could be based on variations of that knife.

You have an obvious talent for that "type" of handle, cultivate it and you'll go far.

Greg

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Greg is right on. This thing is more impressive every time I look at it, noted caveats aside.

Great Job,That's all.

I think you did a good job.. The workmanship and look is awesome.. I guess everyone has some personal preference in materials. I can't wait to see the your next one. I KNOW! It's gonna be fantastic..