The First Two WIP

Steven Long

Well-Known Member
Decided to try and make a few knives for myself and a friend of mine. We both spend a lot of time outdoors and these are designed for that purpose. Also, I felt that if I made two than the mistakes made on the first one can be corrected on the second one . I have always been a "jack of all trades" (fixing whatever breaks, building a few furniture pieces, etc) but this is more creative and intimate. I have really been enjoying this new obsession to make things with my hands out of raw material. Anyway, on to the knives...

Knife One:
-1/8" O1 steel
-OAL= 9"
-Blade Length= 4 1/4"
-Handle will be front and rear bolsters made out of 304 with Arizona Ironwood Burl.
-Mosaic pins

Almost ready for heat treat. I have a crappy Skil drill press and I got a little wobble when putting the lanyard hole in. For some reason this flaw annoys me even though you won't be able to see it when the handle is on. Still need to sand it a bit more in this picture.
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I found the hacksaw to be the best tool for rough cutting the shape out and was surprised at how well the Craftsman belt sander worked. It made pretty quick work when profiling the blade. I used files to put the edge on and a few blisters to prove it. It actually wasn't as hard as I thought it was going to be.

After seeing some of the tools a lot of you use, I have been drooling over belt grinders. Maybe someday in the near future.

Knife Two:
-1/8" O1 steel
-OAL= 8 7/8"
-Blade Length= 4 5/8"
-Handle will be Arizona Ironwood Burl

Cut it out and profiled it last night and have been staring at it ever since wondering if there is anything I want to change. Going to stop being indecisive and will finish profiling, drill the holes and put the edge on it tomorrow. I would have liked the handle to be a tad longer but I ran out of steel.
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And here they are together for comparison...
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This project has turned out to be very fun and rewarding. After making a few antler handled firesteels, I felt that I could possibly make a knife or two and see where it goes from there. This forum has helped me tremendously and I am thankful for that. They will hopefully be sent to heat treat on Friday so I can start finishing them next week.

Here are the antler handled firesteels if anyone was wondering what I was talking about...
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Had to fancy them up a little bit...
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Thanks for looking and check back soon for the progress.
 
Looks like you have a good start....To help with your grinds,do a search on "draw filing" .There are several pieces of information here on the forum,and should be some pics.
Draw filing is simple and will remove a lot of material,in short time.Just a tip
Good luck

God bless,Keith
 
Good start.

If you are looking to make a few knives, hobby and friends, you could look at a craftman 2x42 (less than $200) as a grinder to get your feet wet. I had purchased a 2x72 then a family member gave me a 2x42 that I used while waiting for my 2x72 to arrive. I have kept the 2x42 on my bench and after I use up the belts will convert it to a 2x72 as a backup unit.
 
Looks like you have a good start....To help with your grinds,do a search on "draw filing" .There are several pieces of information here on the forum,and should be some pics.
Draw filing is simple and will remove a lot of material,in short time.Just a tip
Good luck

God bless,Keith

Thanks Keith. I actually just read someone mentioning about draw filing on this forum the other day. I had meant to do some research but got sidetracked. Thanks for the tip.
 
Good start.

If you are looking to make a few knives, hobby and friends, you could look at a craftman 2x42 (less than $200) as a grinder to get your feet wet. I had purchased a 2x72 then a family member gave me a 2x42 that I used while waiting for my 2x72 to arrive. I have kept the 2x42 on my bench and after I use up the belts will convert it to a 2x72 as a backup unit.

Thank you TacticallySharp! I have been undecisive on a new belt grinder. I looked at the Craftsman and almost purchased it, but figured I would wait and sleep on it a little more. I almost want to save a few extra hundred dollars and go with the Grizzly but some people say that if you do that, you might as well save another few hundred and get something a lot better than the two. I have read good and bad reviews on the Grizzly but mostly good reviews for the Craftsman taking into consideration the cost difference in the two. The Grizzly seems to be able to get me further into knifemaking and I don't think I would outgrow it for a while. I might outgrow the Craftsman a lot sooner. I hope I can make up my mind soon. Get a Craftsman next week or wait and get a Grizzly in a month or so? Tough, tough decisions!
 
Thank you TacticallySharp! I have been undecisive on a new belt grinder. I looked at the Craftsman and almost purchased it, but figured I would wait and sleep on it a little more. I almost want to save a few extra hundred dollars and go with the Grizzly but some people say that if you do that, you might as well save another few hundred and get something a lot better than the two. I have read good and bad reviews on the Grizzly but mostly good reviews for the Craftsman taking into consideration the cost difference in the two. The Grizzly seems to be able to get me further into knifemaking and I don't think I would outgrow it for a while. I might outgrow the Craftsman a lot sooner. I hope I can make up my mind soon. Get a Craftsman next week or wait and get a Grizzly in a month or so? Tough, tough decisions!


I wouldn't waste the money on the Grizzly. It isn't bad, but is only an improvement over the Craftsman because it uses 72" belts, which isn't worth the extra cash. I'd say get the Craftsman for cheap and save for a variable speed 2x72 later. If you want to test drive my old Craftsman, or my 2x72 (not variable speed yet) for that matter, I'm just down the road in Katy. If you're interested, I'll PM you my contact info.
 
If you are going to be making a lot of knives then a good starter is the basic 2x72 from Jose a pheer grinders. He's got stood starter grinder which you can start with and that will work as you save for name brand one. I believe his web site is called:

2x72beltgrinder.com

I have been using mine since the beginning of the year with no problems, great customer service and personally answers the phone.
 
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I wouldn't waste the money on the Grizzly. It isn't bad, but is only an improvement over the Craftsman because it uses 72" belts, which isn't worth the extra cash. I'd say get the Craftsman for cheap and save for a variable speed 2x72 later. If you want to test drive my old Craftsman, or my 2x72 (not variable speed yet) for that matter, I'm just down the road in Katy. If you're interested, I'll PM you my contact info.

Wow Travis, that is a very nice offer. I think I will have to take you up on that offer very soon. I will send you a PM soon.

I think I am going to go ahead and get the Craftsman for now. It seems to be the right choice and recommendation from most of you. Thanks for all of the input guys.

TacticallySharp, I just checked out that website and he makes some good looking grinders for the money. Seems like you could basically get a grinder at half the cost of most other makers. Thanks for the link!

I got a little more work done on my second knife tonight. Changed the design a little by shortening up the blade length and extending the length of the handle. I also dropped the point a little more to give her some curves. I also changed the shape of the handle a little and gave it more flow. I haven't taken any pictures yet, so as soon as I do, I will post them.

Here you go. I think it looks a lot better...

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Previous...
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Improvements...
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Looks good Steven,only other thing I would do,and you may have planned that aready,is round the back of the handle off a little.
of course that can be done when shaping the handle..Nice job.Now get you a file,and get some bevels on that thing LOL
Keep us posted

God bless,
Keith
 
Thanks Keith. Rounding off the back has crossed my mind but I wasn't sure if it would look better or worse. I might just have to do a little drawing on the knife and see where it goes. Thanks for the advice.

I also just purchased the Craftsman 2"x42" belt sander. I am about to set it up and see how well it works. I'm a little nervous about putting the bevel on it now. With a file I can go slow and really see what I am doing. The sander worries me a little. Got off work early today so I will have plenty of time to test it out and learn some grinding techniques.

Keith, I have been trying to find a tutorial on draw filing and have only found one youtube video and all he does is talk about it. He never shows how to actually do it. I will keep looking and see what I can find.
 
Update!!

Alright, I got some work done on the second knife today as well as moved the rest of my shop on the back porch due to the shed feeling like an oven. Also set up the Craftsman 2"x42" and ground my first knife with a grinder (ordered a bunch of different size grit belts). This thing is one speed and it's full throttle. It's way to fast and will take a bit to get used to. It was nerve racking at first but I sort of got the hang of it after an hour or so. Learned a lot by making quite a few mistakes but all in all, it was a success. I couldn't figure out how to grind it straight and establish a plunge line. I was really hoping to have a ricasso. Any advice?

Mistakes made....
- When trying to even out the whole blade on the platen, the knife would skip and look horrible. Once I figured out how to only apply small pressure to stop it from "skipping", it was too late. The butt had been ground down pretty far and will need quite a bit of sanding to get down even again. I might have to try a tapered tang now.
- I tried to straighten it by taking the platen off and all it did was grind my edges down and leave a hump going down the middle of the blade.
- I kept accidently burning the tip and grinding to far down, which shortened the blade a little.
- Trying to get the pin holes straight and even was more difficult than expected. It is pretty hard to take measurements on something with no straight lines. Pin holes ended up a little uneven.

Questions....
- What grit should I use right before heat treat?
- I left the bevel a little smaller than the thickness of a dime. Will this help prevent warpage during heat treat?
- How do you grind a plunge line on such a fast machine?
- I ordered a Ceramic Glass Platen Liner flat platen 2"x8"x 0.192" from USA Knifemakers Supply, will this help in the skipping?

Time for the pictures.... (I was playing around with a new portable studio and lighting so there are numerous pictures. Bear with me.)

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I took keith's advice and round the butt a bit. Looks better now. I still have some sanding left and hopefully I can get it to heat treat tomorrow. I think they only do it every Monday, so I better get it done.

Here is how the second knife has progressed...

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Feel free to be brutally honest with me on all aspects of this knife and the way I am building it. Any and all advice is welcome.

Thanks for looking!
 
First,I will say...the knife looks fine (for where you are at)...Don't do anything else to this one,On that sander. LOL
Let me see if I can find some examples of ''drawfiling''..you can really make that knife look great,if you can get that worked out
Btw,the pin holes look fine...someone else may also come along that can explain drawfiling,it's really quite simple

Give me a few min

God bless
 
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Questions....
- What grit should I use right before heat treat?
- I left the bevel a little smaller than the thickness of a dime. Will this help prevent warpage during heat treat?
- How do you grind a plunge line on such a fast machine?
- I ordered a Ceramic Glass Platen Liner flat platen 2"x8"x 0.192" from USA Knifemakers Supply, will this help in the skipping?

First off its looking good and the best lessons are self taught rather when we make mistakes its an opportunity to know better next time and to be aware of them. As a craftsman you will see "flaws" where others will not so just know that and press on! I am not an expert here but here is what I was taught.

I grind to 220 then hand/flat sand the blade. Once the blade has been HT'ed it will be much harder to remove metal and wear out abrasives faster. Having done all the prep work allows for much less work after the HT.

I was told to leave .010 per side over the final thickness of my edge. I build skinners and hard use bushcraft/survival minded blades so I try to stay with the thickness of a dime on the skinners , .050, and on the bush/survival blades .050 -.060. My understanding is its the entire length, normalizing steps used or not, thinness of the entire blade, the quenchant, how its quenched and how its heated that plays into warpage. I rarely have warpage but when I do it usually on my 12" long blades.

I started on a home made single speed grinder. Please understand what I am about to type is not to demean your equipment or your financial situation. I chose one because it was cheaper but now knowing how limited I was by the single speed as well as burning up the finer grit belts as fast as you could put them on there and making it difficult to keep from over heating the blades I would highly encourage you to look into building a NWG with step pulleys and your current grinder motor. The difference in my craftsmanship, the life of the belts and saving of steel more than paid for it. I made knives for 2 years on the single speed grinder so you can do it but know that the life of the belts is greatly diminished. Here is how I did the plunge; I used a hardened steel guide clamped to where I wanted the plunge to be then when I placed the blade lightly on the belt edge up I would place it on the belt about in the middle of the blade. Once I was in position I would then work back to the guide and set the plunge. This kept me from going too deep or too high up the blade. You could always use a rat-tailed file to set the plunge with the guide too!

I had the same glass platten on my machine too and it did help some but it also shocked the crap out of me on a couple of occasions. Later I was told to add a ground wire and ground myself or the blade i was working on to stop it from shocking me. The belt passing over the glass creates static electricity that builds up and must discharge somewhere. It did not happen a lot but when it did it got your attention.

Knife making is a personal journey or atleast it is to me so don't let limitations hold you back but do know what they are so you can prevent mistakes early on. I am enjoying your WIP and look forward to its completion!
 
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Steven,here is one example.This is not a knife,but the process is the same.
They say use a single cut file,I think it will leave the best finish...all I have ever done,I used what I had on hand.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dec78RQsokw hope some of this helps

God bless

http://www.btinternet.com/~hognosesam/targets/targets1/drawfiling.htm

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/341886-Draw-filing-tutorial

http://www.listoftools.com/handtools/metal_cutting_tools/draw_filing.html



Thanks a bunch Keith. It really is that easy. I saw the title for that youtube video when searching but since it was on a gun, I stupidly passed it up. Lesson learned. Do you think drawfiling would be the way to go to get the knife back to the same thickness without having to try a tapered tang? I think I will give it a try. Also, should I just file the handle area or go the whole length of the blade? Since I took the platen off of the sander to try and even it out, the blade area is a little thinner than the handle area, due to me spending too much time in that area with the grinder (does that make sense?).

Thanks for helping me out and answering my greenhorn questions, it is sincerely appreciated.
 
"First off its looking good and the best lessons are self taught rather when we make mistakes its an opportunity to know better next time and to be aware of them. As a craftsman you will see "flaws" where others will not so just know that and press on! I am not an expert here but here is what I was taught."

-Thanks for the comment. I agree and this is the best way I learn, by trial and error.

"I grind to 220 then hand/flat sand the blade. Once the blade has been HT'ed it will be much harder to remove metal and wear out abrasives faster. Having done all the prep work allows for much less work after the HT."

- That helps a lot. I was worried that maybe sanding it too smooth will cause problems after heat treat, or not sanding smooth enough would also cause problems.

"I was told to leave .010 per side over the final thickness of my edge. I build skinners and hard use bushcraft/survival minded blades so I try to stay with the thickness of a dime on the skinners , .050, and on the bush/survival blades .050 -.060. My understanding is its the entire length, normalizing steps used or not, thinness of the entire blade, the quenchant, how its quenched and how its heated that plays into warpage. I rarely have warpage but when I do it usually on my 12" long blades."

-These are the types of blades I will also be making. I had read that the thickness of a dime was good, then I read that it should be thinner than the thickness of a dime. So, I guess it really depends on the intended uses of the knife and maybe a little personal preference also. Most research I do, the writer seems to always emphasize to not grind the edge to thin, or it could cause warpage. This makes me nervous since I am really not set-up to straighten a warped blade.

"I started on a home made single speed grinder. Please understand what I am about to type is not to demean your equipment or your financial situation. I chose one because it was cheaper but now knowing how limited I was by the single speed as well as burning up the finer grit belts as fast as you could put them on there and making it difficult to keep from over heating the blades I would highly encourage you to look into building a NWG with step pulleys and your current grinder motor. The difference in my craftsmanship, the life of the belts and saving of steel more than paid for it. I made knives for 2 years on the single speed grinder so you can do it but know that the life of the belts is greatly diminished. Here is how I did the plunge; I used a hardened steel guide clamped to where I wanted the plunge to be then when I placed the blade lightly on the belt edge up I would place it on the belt about in the middle of the blade. Once I was in position I would then work back to the guide and set the plunge. This kept me from going too deep or too high up the blade. You could always use a rat-tailed file to set the plunge with the guide too!"

-Totally makes sense. I was looking into getting a file guide, then decided to purchase the grinder and didn't think I really needed it. Halfway through grinding, that file guide popped into my head. Is a file guide what you mean by hardened steel guide? Also, do you use the platen most of the time to grind your bevels? I am so confused as to how these talented guys make awesome grinds on this Craftsman. I can't figure out how to keep the grind where I want it and how to keep both sides even. I know it will get easier after a few blades, but I was so nervous that this knife would get majorly screwed up, and would end up having to go in the drawer of shame. Is the NWG the grinder plans that USA Knifemaker sells?

"I had the same glass platten on my machine too and it did help some but it also shocked the crap out of me on a couple of occasions. Later I was told to add a ground wire and ground myself or the blade i was working on to stop it from shocking me. The belt passing over the glass creates static electricity that builds up and must discharge somewhere. It did not happen a lot but when it did it got your attention."

- That is crazy! I am prone to get shocked already, so I am sure this will happen to me. When placing the platen, should it sort of push the belt out a little or do you set it up where the belt does not touch it? I would think it would push the belt out (belt resting on the platen) because I don't think the current platen could be pushed back enough to compensate for the extra thickness. It is my understanding that I have to JB Weld the glass platen to the original platen? Does that make sense?

Knife making is a personal journey or atleast it is to me so don't let limitations hold you back but do know what they are so you can prevent mistakes early on. I am enjoying your WIP and look forward to its completion!


-That is why I am becoming obsessed with knifemaking. There are really no limitations and the skills required to produce a quality knife are endless... Metal work, wood work, leather work, precise measuring, creativity, the maintanance of equipment, etc... There are quite a bit of skills to learn and I am sure you can never learn them all.

Thanks for the great input and comments. Sorry for all of the questions, but I am eager to learn everything I can. The best advice comes from experienced craftsmen and I am thankful for this website to connect me to all of you great guys.
 
Hey Steven,not sure I understand drawfiling on the tang.I can't really tell from the pic.What most do with drawfiling is the bevels
See if any of these pic make sense,or just confuse you even more..
Pic#2 is just showing you the start of your plung line,just try and get both sides as close as you can,use your file as normal

Pic #1 and #3 is an attempt to show you the drawing process,depending on the file teeth,start at the plung and pull out,or start at the tip and push to the plung.

Good luck

God bless,
Keith
 

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Ooooh ok. I didn't realize it was mainly or only used for the bevel. I was thinking of using this method to even out my tang but I guess it would be easier to just sand it back down flat. I accidently ground down the butt end of the tang more than the rest of the knife and I am worried there will be a gap when the handle is attached.

I think I can still drawfile the bevel down a little to get a plunge line and clean it up. Thanks for the info and pictures Keith. I'll post an update once I try this out.
 
Just take your time,file your plung lines first...before you start drawfiling,you dont have to complete your plunges just get then as close to the same on both sides.
As far as the tang,you can put the platten back on,and get you a magnet,I use one that is used in welding,that way you can hold it flat against the belt..or if you have
taken it down to far,just do a little taper on it,just make sure it is flat,where the scale will not have a gap.....Just remember..this first one was a learning experience
you can now get better and better...Keep us posted

God bless
 
Thanks a lot Keith. just went and got some chalk for my files. It seems that chalk is a dying product. I had to buy a color assortment of sidewalk chalk.

The magnet and a metal guide sound like the solution to my main problem with this Craftsman.

I keep forgetting that I'm not entering into any contests with this knife, it's just hard not be a perfectionist. I have to remember to take my time and think hard before acting and that, like you said, this is my first knife and it is a learning experience for the rest of them.
 
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