Cracked @#!$%!!

Jerry Bond

Well-Known Member
OK, A little background
When I was a kid, about 7 or 8 years old, I made [forged]
bolts, nuts and washers and all kind of brackets for my papa.
and I really enjoyed it.
Well, yesterday, I wasn't interested in grinding out another knife. So I told my bride that I would try my hand at forging out a blade. And she says " uh welll good luck". So, I took the piece of 1/4"x1 1/2"-1084 that Murph gave to me and proceded. I was going to make a Rambo 4 knife.
All went VERY VERY well, My wife and I were both shocked
and I was very proud and acted like there was nothing to it--
until I tried to look at with no gloves, wont do that again-a 2 1/4" sear across 3 fingers.
well I cleaned it up, took the edge down a little and the bevels that I had forged in were great. I have to say that 55-58 years with a hammer I can pretty well control it.
Fired up the propane forge, got the blade to non magnetic and let it air cool,back in the forge to dull red and let it air cool. In the forge to just starting to change, and let it air cool again.
Drilled all the holes and checked it out, so it was ready
for HT.
I had read all the post on Quench wars so I said my McCarr 11 sec. was no good. That left me with cranola oil or water, to my dismay, I chose water. Yep you got it, It cracked in two places.
So, my friends, tell me what was so wrong with I did.
The forging was fun and I want to do more but not to have them crack in quench.
All replies welcome, Call me an old dumb a$$ or whatever seams to fit. Jerry
Wish I had gotten some pictures but--
 
Not a water guy myself. Not enough guts to risk wasting my efforts. But, my reading tells me a couple things.

Brine is better than straight water as the salt helps keeps the boiling down on the hot blade surface better. This means more uniform vapor jacket on the cooling blade and more even stresses.

Absolutely no areas that cause focused stresses. Square corners, notches, big scratches and the like

Also many who do use water do an interrupted quench where they remove the blade after a few seconds and then reinsert it. This is how they control the quench speed.

To have a high level of success there is a learning curve that involves lots of cracks.
 
Jerry,

That sucks brother!!! I can't give any advice, but I now have my anvils, a hammer, a homemade forge, and a little time to tinker. I'll be picking up my full size forge at BLADE next week. Once I pick up the rest of my gear I need at BLADE, we can begin this learning curve together.

Oh, and I'll be order some Parks 50 in a week or two as well if you are interested.
 
Jerry,

Using 1084 and water is like trying to beat a train at a crossing. You might make it and you might not.

If you can't get yourself some Parks 50, go to your local Co-Op and get yourself a couple of gallons of Vet-grade mineral oil (the stuff they give to horses to make them "regular"). It will run you around $13 - 15 bucks a gallon.

Pre-heat it to around 130 degrees and you will be surprised at how well it works on 1084.

Robert
 
I am like most,I can't give you any advice,but I will say ''what ever you did,don't do it again:p just kiddin brother.

Hey Murph did you make it back home?

God bless,Keith
 
The answer is very simple, take my advice that I gave in the “quench wars” thread before any testing was yet done- read the “quench wars” for entertainment purposes as a fun exercise but in no way conclusive, and confidently use your McMaster Carr.

If I were to publish the findings of every test I ever did before endless follow up tests virtually every part of heat treating and steel processing would be in doubt. Please trust me in this.

While I would go with the McMaster Carr well before I would go with the mineral oil, I would like to give some credit to Robert Dark for going ahead and recommending it despite the “quench wars” results of low 30’s HRC. He has the benefit of his own experience to filter the “quench wars” results and included it in the big picture.

Even with Parks#50 you are going to get fine pearlite near the spine of the blade with any 10XX series steel, only water will eliminate it entirely, and you saw at what cost. I can assure you that every 10XX blade I ever made had at least a 3/6” wide zone at the spine which contained some fine pearlite and I am just fine with that, if I wanted to totally eliminate it I would go to a alloy that was designed to fully harden. As long as your hamon is not within ½” of the edge fine pearlite should not effect cutting performance.

Knifemakers don’t have that much money to spend, if you bought an actual quench oil, just use it and be happy.
 
While I would go with the McMaster Carr well before I would go with the mineral oil, I would like to give some credit to Robert Dark for going ahead and recommending it despite the “quench wars” results of low 30’s HRC. He has the benefit of his own experience to filter the “quench wars” results and included it in the big picture.

Sort of like trying to figure the best car to drive to Wally-World. As long as we get to where we are trying to go, it doesn't really matter what we drive.

I regret my post, as I usually don't offer much, if any, advice on heat treat (or not much of anything else). Does mineral oil work ???????? Sure. Does it work as well as commercial quenchants ??????? No, because the commercial manufacturers spent ump-teen hours and dollars to ensure that their product does what it is meant to do, just as the vet-grade mineral oil folks researched what it takes to makes a horse "regular" :)

Quench Wars or Not, folks are going to do whatever works for them and whatever their budgets will allow.

Robert
 
Guys I really thank you for your comments on this matter.
LRB- I sure wish that I had used canola oil.
Robert, I think I will get some vet grade min. oil, if for nothing else just to have it on hand.
Kevin,I had 2 blades of 1075/1080 that didn't harden before and now I'm sort of leary of McCarr 11 sec. I think I will get some Parks 50 and then I won't have to worry about it.
Keith, that's some of the best advice that I got--DON'T DO THAT AGAIN.
Now, I want be a water guy either.
Thanks to all Jerry
 
Les, I couldn't find the words but what you said is perfect.
I don't know Robert but he seems to be a real common since guy and I would lesson to him anytime, Thank you Robert.
 
...I regret my post, as I usually don't offer much, if any, advice on heat treat (or not much of anything else)...

Please no regrets, basing positions on every bit of information you can gather throughout your life is nothing to regret, it is the way to success. We come from a different directions here and dissagree on individual details but on the overall, and more important, picture, we are on the same page. That was why I was entirely sincere in giving you credit.
 
Please no regrets, basing positions on every bit of information you can gather throughout your life is nothing to regret, it is the way to success. We come from a different directions here and dissagree on individual details but on the overall, and more important, picture, we are on the same page. That was why I was entirely sincere in giving you credit.

Thanks Kevin. I'll stop by to see you at Blade next week.

Robert
 
I heat the quench to 125-130 all the time.
I believe everything would have been fine if I would quenched in the McCarr-11.
Sat I went out and really molested a piece or re-bar,didn't leave it thick enough, boy is that thing ugly. But it is hard and sharp--12" blade 1 1/2 wide black scale and hammer marks all over it but I sure cleared out that fence row with it.
Jerry
 
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