Question on vertical forges

Bob Warner

KNIFE MAKER
Hello all,

I have been out of knifemaking for a while and just built a two burner (venturi) horizontal forge for general forging. It is a big forge but I do more than just knifemaking. An example is the twisted door handles below.


Anyway, back to the vertical forge. I want to build a welding forge but by being out of the game a while I am wondering if things have changed in how they are built. A few years back the goal was a castable forge and a blown burner. I think the blown burner is still the idea but what about castable? Are people using kaowool and ITC or castable?

I have never built a vertical forge before and wonder about placement of the billet. Is there usually a shelf inside or is the billet suspended in the forge by the bottom of the door and the handle resting on some sort of holder?

Does the burner still enter in the bottom of the forge at an angle to create a swirl?

Thanks,

Bob
 
It appears I did not properly add the photos to the message above. Here they are.
 

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Hi Bob glad to see you getting busy again, I hope your health has improved?

Well I just had a friend build me a forge and he did something a bit different. He used Kaowool but saturated it with 3000º castable. This forge is using a 2 venturi burners.

_MG_5858-Version2-1.jpg


I have a castable blown forge as well and this one heats up very fast.
 
Building a vertical forge if you want to do damascus is definitely the way to go. Yes blown is still the way to go on a vertical forge IMO.
Yes input at the bottom and at a slight angle is best for a swirling type of atmosphere. I personally went with Koawool and Satanite coating of about 1/4-1/2 thick. No shelf in there, I never use tongs and mostly weld a handle on and use a shelf to hold my 3 ft handle in front of forge to keep damascus where i want it. I had a problem with Flux eating my Koawool right where the billet enters the forge, So last year I put half a brick in the entrance of teh forge and had it extend in the forge past where the liner is. It protects my koawool quite well now. I still have to patch my intererior wall about every 10th firing though. I have read using a castable forge interior pretty much makes it flux proof but heat times are extended considerably.
YMMV.
Chris
 
I suggest 1: of Inswool or similar ceramic blanket around the walls, floor and roof, then cast a 1" wall, floor, roof of Kast-0-Lite 3000. After the Kast-0-Lite has cured and is thoroughly dry paint a coat of Plistix Infrared Reflective (similar to ITC 100 but much cheaper). Make the floor and roof of the forge removable and cast them separately so that they can be replaced without redoing the whole forge. Be sure and hold the blanket back about an inch from the door opening and fill this 1" area with the castable. The Kast-0-Lite is an insulating light weight castable refractory which helps keep the heat inside the forge where it is needed. Kast-0-Lite is flux resistant.The Plistix greatly improves the efficiency of the forge. The forge can be made either vertical or horizontal.

I carry all of these products and can ship them or bring them to Blade. If needed PM me.
 
Bob, I think ya get a better mix /burn with a vertical. I'm building another right now and am deciding on burner type. I'm kinda liking a ribbon type burner . Still undecided tho.
Jymm Hoffman has come up witha ribbon burner that is simple to construct and not too bad on fuel. I've seen his forges constructed from propane tanks and they really cook!
 
Kaowool, firebrick or castable? These are the only obstacles I face right now. I can get plenty of firebrick, I have kaowool and would have to find castable.

I am thinking of using hard firebrick backed by kaowool.
 
On the one I'm building, I poured a castable floor with a hole for flux drain.
I plan on using kaowool (2") then coating with a satanite type material and then a reflective paint. Not sure of the names as it was all donated material.
I'll post a picture this week, if i remember.
The body itself is 2 pieces of pipe each with a flange on one end. It will be bolted together upon assembly. The plan is to mount a pipe vise at one opening for cable welding.
 
Bob, the original one I built was a hot water tank shell that had a 15" inside diameter.
It was lined with 2" of wool plus had the approprite coatings. Mike Sweany built the burner . It was a gas hog so I retired it, but she really cooked!
 
I have one of each; Vert & Horizontal. The biggest issue I had with the vert. was supporting the billet and not having the handle heat off.

The other issue was fuel volume, it was double for a vert. So i build my own and have sold a few to members here.

Happy to help, let me know what you need.

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2CjEcrnVGw"]YouTube- Forge Fired Up[/nomedia]

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luI-tB9UzMI"]YouTube- Forge Construction[/nomedia]
 

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Ellis vertical

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EM5GjuqIEo"]YouTube- Damascus Billet Started, Three Sisters Forge[/nomedia]

Here is my Ellis vertical. One blower at the base. Design works well. The only issue is the support of the pieces.
 
The burner I built is a copy of what is for sale on Ellis' site.

The forge in the video is pretty much what I plan to make. Mine will be an oval instead of round.

The issue of supporting the billet has me a bit concerned. I can just imagine always fighting the thing to keep it from drooping on the end of the handle and eventually the handle thinning out so much you have to stop, cut it off and reweld the handle on. It may just be part of the job but it will be an annoying part to me. I will have to consider the options for a base to put the material on.

I have built more than a few knife making tools and the forge is pretty easy. I just have been out of the knife making loop for 4-1/2 years and wanted to know if there were advances over what I knew back then.

Right now I am considering two options. Both are blown forges but one is lined with firebrick, the hard kind and the other kaowool with ITC-100.

Kaowool with ITC-100 is what my latest forge was and I liked it but in a vertical forge the the area under the doorway is going to get a lot of flux on it which would damage the insulation.

A firebrick forge would hold the heat longer and make annealing easier and there would not be as great of a temperature drop when material was introduced. The flux would not destroy it as fast either.

Just haven't decided what I want to do yet but I better get started, I have some knives to make.
 
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