A different kind of mokume...

That's some pretty neat lookin stuff. I've saved the link and will do some more research on it later.
 
Their site doesn't want to load this morning, but I know what you're talking about. It's made for the kit pen turners who, for the most part anyway, can't turn metals because all they have are wood lathes. I have not used this material (I can turn the real metal mokume) so I don't know exactly what it is made of. Personally I doubt there is much metal in it, or if there is it is in the form of powder held in a polymer matrix. That's the only way you could turn it on a wood lathe with hand held chisels.

If you go to on line places like ebay and etsy and search for "mokume gane" you will find along with true fused metals other listings for things made from polymer clay. There is no metal in the stuff that I know of, just metallic colored plastics. They advertise this stuff as mokume gane, not "polymer clay that resembles mokume gane", so a lot of people who are unfamiliar with the real "wood grain METAL" think it's the read deal.

About 20 years ago when I was starting to work with damascus steel more often, Tim Zowada suggested I make my own to understand how some patterns were made. He said to buy Play Doh. I got some blue and some yellow, rolled them out on the kitchen counter top with a rolling pin, layered them up and rolled them again. I then cut some grooves across my "billet" and rolled it again. I made ladder pattern "doh-mascus"! That's what these people are doing with their polymer clay, and I bet the pen blanks are similar, just not in blue and yellow.

While this material works on the cheaper kit based pens, it is something I would never use on a knife. The real stuff is easy enough to obtain and work.

David
 
About 20 years ago when I was starting to work with damascus steel more often, Tim Zowada suggested I make my own to understand how some patterns were made. He said to buy Play Doh. I got some blue and some yellow, rolled them out on the kitchen counter top with a rolling pin, layered them up and rolled them again. I then cut some grooves across my "billet" and rolled it again. I made ladder pattern "doh-mascus"!

Thanks for sharing that, David. That sound like a great way to understand how the patterns develop. :)
 
Happy to help, Paul, but thank Tim for the idea years ago. He probably had his oldest child making doh-mascus!

Here is a follow up. The company sells their material on ebay, and their primary audience are the kit pen turners. http://cgi.ebay.com/Mokume-Gane-Met...ultDomain_0&hash=item45f2aa02e9#ht_1609wt_939
Read the text. They do describe traditional mokume and how it's made, and admit that their material is not traditional. Then the salesmanship begins. They say that mokume is "extremely rare" and that it "sells for hundreds if not thousands of dollars". That's obviously bogus! And just what is "galactic silver"? They claim "now you too can make pens that sell for $$THOUSAND$$", but there isn't a kit based writing instrument that's worth more than a couple hundred dollars, maybe three hundred if a gold nib in fitted to it. None of us who make pens use it, only those who do the kits.

I looked around on google for info on macro molecular metals. Most of what I found made references to plastics and very large molecules. I suspect that they are using metal that has been finely ground and bound with a plastic of some kind based upon those google references and their quote "metal that has been atomized down to the molecular level and combined with special chemical binders".

Around 40 years ago the latest craze in TV sales was for jewelry made from "faux gold". It was pretty and shiny, and it certainly was affordable! Then we found out that faux was French for fake. That's the same feeling I get when I see this mokume. "Faux mokume".

Use the real mokume. Sakmar, Chad Nichols, and others make it and it's not horribly expensive or difficult to work. I've made pens from it that sell "for over $1300 on the internet" and they have the real stuff on them!

David
 
I have made mokume for several projects , I became interested in this product when you made the post . This particular PMC precious metal clay uses real gold silver coppper etc . It is combinded with a binder that burns away leaving the pure metals .It may be an alternative to forging some ? Not sure Never worked with it . Its similar to using Powdered metal to make steel ? might be worth a shot . It may me easier but, it seems it is expensive .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_clay
 
I have made mokume for several projects , I became interested in this product when you made the post . This particular PMC precious metal clay uses real gold silver coppper etc . It is combinded with a binder that burns away leaving the pure metals .It may be an alternative to forging some ? Not sure Never worked with it . Its similar to using Powdered metal to make steel ? might be worth a shot . It may me easier but, it seems it is expensive .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_clay

I'm familiar with PMC. Rio Grande Jewelry Supply has sold it for years. The reason I've never used it for my knife (and pen) work is because after forming it into whatever you want, usually a jewelry object, you have to bake it to remove the "clay" binder. When you do that the object shrinks. The metal that remains is not quite as strong as cast or rolled metal of the same kind. It is essentially sintered, or fused powder. I don't know if it would laminate well to make clay mokume. If the different metal PMCs shrank at different rates it certainly would not.

I think where PMC could be used on knives is as decorative elements that are attached to the knives. For instance, you could make manuki for a Japanese type project and set them under the wrapping. You could also make PMC parts and solder them to fittings.

PMC is expensive, especially the gold bearing PMC. Gold closed at $1232.40 yesterday!

I believe PMC is very different from the M3 stuff. When you fire the PMC the binder is removed and the metal is fused, but the M3 says that there is still something holding the metal molecules together. The PMC, to the best of my knowledge, isn't made with some unknown metal like "galactic silver" either, just plain old gold, silver, and copper.

David
 
The only thing that rang an alarm bell for me was that statement of theirs
about "traditional mokume" being "very rare and worth thousands for a very little amount".
Now,IF they're talking about a billet of traditionally made,vintage mokume,over 100 years old...
Other than that,it seems to me it would be o.k. for light-med duty edc dress knives.They say it's strong,and even offer a 50% buy-back if YOU screw it up!
I think I'm going to try some,because I haven't seen any mokume,even on ebay,
that was as inexpensive as the 4" and 6" stuff they sell: "Knife Scale 1-1/2" x 6" x 3/8" (+$60.00)"
I just wanted to see if anyone had used it yet,and if so,they found it to be a viable material.
Thanks for the input folks,and Howdy Bubba-San!
 
the PMC product seems to be a good product ! I checked with reactive metals.com . The biggest negative I could find was expense, Ioz. of 95 % silver pMC is almost 50$ , silver was about 20$ this morning. I really dont see any major advantage , except ease of making small fittings and ornaments . I dont think strength would be an issue , although some of it has nearly the same durability as real silver ( when heated it is 90- 95% real silver). I may try some PMC for a habaki to see how well it holds up .? I do believe if this were that good a product , lots of smiths would be using it to save time ? ...........whats up wolf ?
 
lol,'bout the same as you,old buddy;)
My problem is,my body is a slightly beaten and battered 46,but my brain is
a strapping brawny 25,and sometimes they don't communicate too well.
My gung-ho brain says "We can do it!" and my body is dumb enough to believe it
I've been working here and there with a buddy of mine who owns a small moving company:not long ago we moved an old upright piano,and because I'm the bigger stronger (?) guy,I was on the bottom,as we moved it down the stairs...
A spine that's been fractured,and riddled with arthritis,shouldn't be moving pianos down long flights of stairs :eek:
One day I'll learn,ya figure?
Heal well Bubba-San.
 
It seems we never learn , My butt is draggin ! hurt my shoulder , now my whole body hurts . I am so far behind not sure if I can catch up . healing is real slow when you are over 60 . I have 8 bare blades that are finished polished , but I hurt too bad to make handles or sheaths . :unsure:
 
If I were closer to ya,I'd offer to swing by and help you out.
Drink lots of water;I find if I get even a little dehydrated,my spine lets me know
real quick!
 
wolf, Heres a knife that mokeum from that maker was used as the bolsters.. The maker of this knife is my friend and mentor and he says the stuff is perfect for bolsters.. or handle material for a light to medium duty knife! He said it works by that I mean sands or grinds fairly easy and looks GOOD!

Good luck!
 

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That's a sweet looking knife Randy,your friend has a nice touch.
So the bolsters on that knife are the M3 Mokume material from
Metalpenblanks . com?
Cool,I'm going to try some out soon,just to see for myself.
Thanks!
 
Wolf, Yep. They are from that supplier. He called and ordered them direct and this is one of the knives he used it on.. Its a really cool looking knife, so I saved the pics.. He does exceptional scrim and knife making!

Glad to help out!

Randy
 
Yeah,I've gone back to look at that scrim;was going to ask if he did it!
Very nice,and something I want to try my hand at soon.
Thanks for sharin' that Randy!
 
Hello, I have used the M3 Mokume material from metalpenblanks.com and was pleased with the results. It works easy, drills easy and takes a beautiful finish. Plus this stuff takes a patina naturally or chemically. Folks use recon stone & acrylic materials all the time for knives so I believe this is a viable product for knife makers. My two cents! I do have a few knives on my website with this materials as bolsters, check it out!
www.sampsonknifeworks.com
Sincerely,
Clint Sampson
 
I knew it looked o.k.,from the knives on their website,
but just wanted to know if it was a strong material.
Thanks Clint,and very,very nice knives btw!
Oh;one thing I found out,last time I got some mokume,I discovered that
the random/raindrop pattern only went halfway into the 1/2" thick bar,
so bookmatching it was out of the question.
This stuff,according to the email I got back,has the pattern going clear through
the material.
Nice.
I'm a freak for bookmatching:I love Balance and symmetry.
(maybe 'cause there's so little of it in my life? ;) )
 
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Wolf, Im happy to help.. Please post pics of whatever you make! I would love to see.

Good luck and stay sharp!
 
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